Google Earth proves Muhammad-Islam

Originally posted by InfoKartel

Originally posted by kidtwist
I can't believe you spent all that time on a story based on fantasy!

Religion is a man made idea, nothing more nothing less. It causes more damage to the world than anything else in existence and is not worth devoting more than one minute to it.

You're too young to say such things. PS. Do not jump on bandwagons because they are "cool".

are you implying that to think of the world's religions as fictional groupings of fables and sayings is immature? yet believing in sky-gods and dragons and zombie-saviors is... wise?! how is it a bandwagon if this guy really thinks that? i grew up in an overly conservative, vast-majority christian part of west michigan. being an atheist was by no means "cool" or a "bandwagon" thing when I was growing up, so why/how did I reach my conclusions? i just want to be cool, so i think the bible and most religious scriptures are a bunch of malarkey?

religious whackos are so condescending. an atheist or agnostic can present a perfectly rational argument against swallowing religion's lies hook line and sinker, and all we ever get is that sly, "knowing" smirk and some comment about "that's how i felt, too... before i was saved!"

Originally posted by THE_PROFESSIONAL
reply to post by lostinspace

 

Does Islam hold any high regard for the number seven?

Yes they do indeed:

The Seven Heavens in Islam

Seven layers of hell

The seven layers of the earth..etc

the seven ways to decapitate a man?

WITH RESPECT AND PEACE BROTHER

reply to post by RicoMarston

an atheist or agnostic can present a perfectly rational argument against swallowing religion's lies hook line and sinker

Atheists and agnostics seem to understand "God" within the framework of organized religion.
The reason I feel so, is because I often see them quoting from religious texts to state their case.... Which makes them no different from religious fundamentalists following the same texts.

I am yet to encounter an atheist who can understand the concept of a higher being OUTSIDE of a religious context.

Originally posted by Murgatroid
Journalist Greg Szymanski, (A former Catholic) is among many who believe that Islam was actually nurtured and created by the Roman Catholic Church, which followed Machiavellian tactics to "create a controlled opposition". Islam wiped out many of the early Christian peoples in North Africa and Turkey, which the pope and the RCC could not control several centuries before the Crusades. Visit Vatican Assassins.org to learn more. (though I don't totally agree with EJ Phelps completely)

odd though, if they couldn't control them as Christians, they have no chance controlling them as Muslims-- doesn't make sense?

reply to post by blueorder


Shall we have a look at the Old Testament?
Plenty of god-ordered mass murder and genocide there, too.
And slavery, rape, enforced marriage, edentured servitude...

Originally posted by THE_PROFESSIONAL

This is not a nobody knows explanation. Muhammad said he received divine revelation. Muhammad did not say aliens gave him information.

this is your evidence, some bloke saying "God showed me/told me to do it"


There are a few of those characters languishing in prisons currently today, I believe they may have murdered people, not so disimilar to this Muhammad character then

Originally posted by CodyOutlaw
reply to post by blueorder

 

Shall we have a look at the Old Testament?
Plenty of god-ordered mass murder and genocide there, too.
And slavery, rape, enforced marriage, edentured servitude...

why is this quoted to me- this seems to bear no relation to anything I have posted

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by FlyersFan

 

The majority of Christians believe that Christ is God incarnate. Right or wrong, that's what a majority believe.

Going by the christians own scripture..... WRONG.

The majority of Christians believe it. The FACT IS that the majority of Christians worship Christ as GOD INCARNATE. Be they right or be they wrong .. that is what they do. They do it. Catholics, Episcopals, Anglicans, Orthodox, Some Lutherans ... they all worship Christ as God incarnate. That's the vast majority of Christians in the world.

From the creed which they say every Sunday -

We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made,
one in Being with the Father.
Through him all things were made.

God from God .. one in Being with the Father. They believe it.
They base that on scripture and they believe it.

Therefore, the Muslims have MUCH more in common with the Jews who have a single God-Head rather than the majority of Christians who have a Trinity God-head. (God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit).

Where the Christians get the diety of Christ in scripture

John 1 - 1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was in the beginning with God. 3All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. 4In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. 5The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.

There are a minority of Christians who disagree with the diety of Christ.
But the majority believe it to be so.

Interesting topic, even if it wasn't divine guidance, it is pretty cool.

Majesticgent made the comment about how the Prophet Muhammad journeyed to Jerusalem on a flying horse. Although Yemen is pretty out of the way, if you accept that, it could be plausible he saw the city and the mountain in a straight line from Mecca. Sure, loads of religions have many miraculuous happenings that are still observable in the world today. I'd say it certainly points to something higher than ourselves.

Mecca and Sana'a being over 2000km apart, with long ranges of mountains inbetween, over 6 degrees latitude separation, and an altitude difference of almost 2000m, it isn't possible that at that time, someone would:
1) Simply walk straight from one place to the other, turn around, and say "This is the direction of the Ka'aba" with any degree of accuracy at all.
2) Because of the differences in altitude and latitude, using the shadow caused by the sun wouldn't work either for as accurate as the line was made.
3) Just following the coast and then turning back around would defintely not give that level of accuracy either.

reply to post by InfoKartel

Hey info! I thought you originally said it was Kurds who did all the important scientific and cultural stuff. How come you've switched over to Persians now? Do you have something against the arab race for some reason?

Also, the Quran straight out explicitly says that Jesus was the Messiah. Not sure what you are on about.

Kinda disappointing (but probably expected) how it devolved into a "Muhammad/Islam is evil/the devil" topic. Sure, Islam styles itself as a continuation and completion of Judaism and Christianity, while at the same time claiming that those religions were distorted and corrupted, and sure, those other religions disagree on that. But Christianity styles itself as a continuation and completion of Judaism, and also claims that the religion was distorted and corrupted by the pharisees, and Judaism pretty much totally disagrees with that as well. So what people think in this regard ("my religion is better than yours!") is pretty much irrelevant to the topic.

Originally posted by THE_PROFESSIONAL
reply to post by magma

 

Isn't it possible that he just decided to face it in that direction?

Anything is possible, but we are looking at the evidence.

How did most or all subsequent mosques after the first two ones created all end up facing Mecca? Are all these just lucky guesses? There was some time and consideration taken into aiming the face of the construction.

Would'nt it be that because all buildings generally have 4 walls, that one of them is going to face the right direction.

I would also hazzard a geuss that when they where built the sun for the oldest ones was used to orientate the building so its not like its hard to get wrong.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by RicoMarston

 

an atheist or agnostic can present a perfectly rational argument against swallowing religion's lies hook line and sinker

Atheists and agnostics seem to understand "God" within the framework of organized religion.
The reason I feel so, is because I often see them quoting from religious texts to state their case.... Which makes them no different from religious fundamentalists following the same texts.

I am yet to encounter an atheist who can understand the concept of a higher being OUTSIDE of a religious context.

as the modern concept of "god" is an invention of organized religions, it's kind of difficult to view it in any other framework. especially when you're debating one particular religion's mischaracterizations of "god." I think the trouble is that you've run into aths and ags who wish to discredit religion or "prove" it wrong. I'm fully capable of explaining why i identify as an agnostic, what i think the true nature of this so-called "god" is and why I think "faith" is fallacy without quoting anyone's scripture. On the flip side, I could comb through a bible or upanishads and show you clear logical contradictions which CANNOT exist in the infallible "word of god" supposedly contained in so many holy books.

if i had to chose one metaphor for how god relates to us it would be this; god is an organism and we are its white blood cells, sensory receptors, memory cells, etc. I'm sure that the cells in my body are self-aware and attempting to understand the true nature of my body in which their entire universe, known and unknown, exists.

"As above, and so below, and i'ma flow on by..."

Originally posted by THE_PROFESSIONAL
You giving examples of alternative methods does not mean that he did it your way. In fact there is no evidence that he did it your way, while history says that he received divine revelation.

When you shoot a basket into from half court into the hoop and I come along and say: No way he could do something like that, let me show you what he did by shooting from the free throw line.... It still does not take away from the fact that there is no countering evidence.

I absolutely agree and that is why when there is no countervailing argument on either side you look to see which argument is more probable. Miracles are great claims and great claims require great evidence.

Unless you are willing to accept other ancient alignments that seem to be anachronistic anomalies that are religious intent as proof of the gods of their builders, it seems a bit hypocritical to use this as substantiating proof of a miracle of Mohammed.

Do the astronomical precision of some of the pyramids offer validating proof of the Egyptian gods? What about Stonehenge and their deities?

Eric

reply to post by THE_PROFESSIONAL


You whole post is pointless......for this reason.

The Great pyramid of Giza and its two smaller friends....where the Egyptians told by the same god how and where to line up the pyramid and build them....and in record time.

There is no proof that Mohammed did not have access to advanced cartographers THIS IS SPECULATION.......did the Egyptians all those years before have access to STAR maps? The Greeks were already advanced in Cartography in 570AD when Mohammed was born.

Did the Myans have access to the solar system and its stars, or the fact that certain events happen ever 26000 years and every 5125 years?

It does NOT means ISLAM is right or anything like that.

Do NOT forget that Mohammed married a six year old, raped her at 9 (or had intercourse) and was illiterate. Plus he condoned murder of anyone who spoke against Allah.




Mohammed unfortunately for you was

reply to post by THE_PROFESSIONAL


If you say Islam is the truth because of this you're very easily deceived and blind. This doesn't mean squat. The ancient Egyptians and other ancient humans were highly knowledgeable in astronomy. Does it mean I should worship Ra? What's nest? Allah written on a goat? Islam is a lie that teaches its followers that by your works, you can be in heaven. It teaches there are different levels of hell and heaven too. That Satan was made from fire and that Satan was punished because he wouldn't bow to Adam. Muhammad married Aisha at 6 and had sex with her at 9 years of age. Muhammad believed he was under the spell of a witch. The teachings of Islam contradict that of the Old & New Testament books.

Islam also holds the belief that God is a deceiver and that cannot be. God does not lie. The father of lies is the devil. He comes as an angel of light, as do the other fallen angels to deceive the world. Deceiving if possible the very elect. Jesus Christ is God and He's the only way. A truth you'll never be able to accept unless the Holy Spirit opens your heart to the truth.

Deuteronomy 13:1-5 fits Muhammad

“If there arises among you a prophet or a dreamer of dreams, and he gives you a sign or a wonder, 2 and the sign or the wonder comes to pass, of which he spoke to you, saying, ‘Let us go after other gods’—which you have not known—‘and let us serve them,’ 3 you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams, for the Lord your God is testing you to know whether you love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul. 4 You shall walk after the Lord your God and fear Him, and keep His commandments and obey His voice; you shall serve Him and hold fast to Him. 5 But that prophet or that dreamer of dreams shall be put to death, because he has spoken in order to turn you away from the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt and redeemed you from the house of bondage, to entice you from the way in which the Lord your God commanded you to walk. So you shall put away the evil from your midst."

reply to post by blueorder


Just pointing out that violence on a grand scale is prevalent in both the OT and the Koran.
Actually, moreso in the OT.

So, if you are saying only Islam is deserving of this accusation, then, I disagree.
If you think this of both the OT and the Koran, then great - we agree.

reply to post by soaringhawk

Deuteronomy 13:1-5 fits Muhammad

“If there arises among you a prophet or a dreamer of dreams, and he gives you a sign or a wonder, 2 and the sign or the wonder comes to pass, of which he spoke to you, saying, ‘Let us go after other gods’—which you have not known—‘and let us serve them,’ 3 you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams, for the Lord your God is testing you to know whether you love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul. 4 You shall walk after the Lord your God and fear Him, and keep His commandments and obey His voice; you shall serve Him and hold fast to Him. 5 But that prophet or that dreamer of dreams shall be put to death, because he has spoken in order to turn you away from the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt and redeemed you from the house of bondage, to entice you from the way in which the Lord your God commanded you to walk. So you shall put away the evil from your midst."

This is more fitting for Jesus, since Muhammed did not perform miracles.

Not desiring to read 6 pages of off-topic posts, for the most part, I offer this in regard to the OP:

Mohammed was a caravan traveler, working for his first wife, Khadija. He would have traveled all over the Middle East- from Sanaa to Damascus, and all over the way back and forth.

Sanaa, Yemen has always been part of trade routes in the Arabian deserts, as has Mecca.

Mohammed would have known the direction of Sanaa to Mecca like I know that going south from WA on I-5 will eventually put me in San Diego, CA. That our modern minds don't understand how people could have accurately traveled without GPS is not the fault of ancient minds, but modern.

All Mohammed had to do was pay attention to the setting sun, the stars, and voila- "Mecca is that way".

Miracle? Hardly. It'd be like me printing a map and claiming I'm a satellite camera... only Mohammed's map was God-given and used against God, as Satan is wont to do.

Did Allah tell Mohammed to marry a 6 year old then have sex with her at age 9 or was that another "miscalculation"?

reply to post by Quauhtli

Originally posted by Quauhtli
I have always wondered if we could go back and meet the peoples from these times, who would look at who as the having the superior civilization.

There are many who have actually done what you are referring to here. One example would be George Rodonaia who was murdered by the KGB and spent three days in a morgue freezer:

I could be anywhere instantly, really there. I tried to communicate with the people I saw. Some sensed my presence, but no one did anything about it. I felt it necessary to learn about the Bible and philosophy. You want, you receive. Think and it comes to you. So I participated, I went back and lived in the minds of Jesus and his disciples. I heard their conversations, experienced eating, passing wine, smells, tastes - yet I had no body. I was pure consciousness. If I didn't understand what was happening, an explanation would come. But no teacher spoke. I explored the Roman Empire, Babylon, the times of Noah and Abraham. Any era you can name, I went there. LINK

I was standing on the sidewalk, ready to depart to NY, waiting for cab, when a car on the sidewalk hit me. I flew in the air 10 meters, and then the car ran over me. My friends and relative took me to the hospital. The hospital staff, friends of mine and 2 other professors declared me dead. On Friday night, they put me in the morgue, in the freezer.

Three days later, they took me out. So on Monday morning they began my autopsy. These 3 days of being out of my body, seeing everything that was happening around, seeing myself, my body, seeing my birth, my parents, my wife, my child, and my friends. I saw their thoughts. I saw what they were thinking, how their thoughts move from one dimension to another.

It was incredible experience. I was in darkness, total darkness. The darkness was pressing. This darkness existed not beyond, but it existed within. What I want say is that the darkness was pressing. And I was in the middle of this fear and I did not understand why and how this darkness existed. Where was I?.

I understood that I didn’t have a body because I didn’t feel it. Then I saw a light. I went through a little hole into that light. But the light was so powerful, so burning. You cannot compare it to anything. No words can explain it. The light was so burning, going through flesh. I didn’t have a body. That was the most interesting part. LINK

"Dr. Rodonaia was killed by the KGB, pronounced dead, taken to the morgue for three days and returned to life during his own autopsy. Dr. Rodonaia was a psychiatric researcher who worked for the KGB and later became a dissident. He was a scientist trained in historical materialism and did not believe in God."

"George Rodonaia underwent one of the most extended cases of a near-death experience ever recorded. Pronounced dead immediately after he was hit by a car in 1976, he was left for three days in the morgue. He did not "return to life" until a doctor began to make an incision in his abdomen as part of an autopsy procedure. Prior to his NDE he worked as a neuropathologist. He was also an avowed atheist. LINK

George was a vocal Soviet dissident during the time when such a stance could get you killed. And that is exactly what happened - he was assassinated by the KGB. Because his case was highly political, an autopsy had to be performed. His corpse was stored in a freezer vault for three days until then. He revived on the autopsy table as he was being split open by the doctors, one of which was his own uncle. Of all the cases I have investigated in my 26 years of work in the field, his is the most dramatic, the longest, the most evidential, and the most soul-stirring. LINK

Originally posted by Christosterone
Did Allah tell Mohammed to marry a 6 year old then have sex with her at age 9 or was that another "miscalculation"?

Actually, he started molesting her when she was six then consummated the marriage when she was nine.