Google Earth proves Muhammad-Islam

Originally posted by Danbones
Well, the INFALLIBLE pope(s) DID say the sun goes round the earth in a circle...
which is what he(they) would decree if they were sent by the devil to discredit christianity

You may want to brush up on what Papal Infallibility means and what it doesn't before discussing it.


Eric

Originally posted by EricD

Originally posted by Danbones
Well, the INFALLIBLE pope(s) DID say the sun goes round the earth in a circle...
which is what he(they) would decree if they were sent by the devil to discredit christianity

You may want to brush up on what Papal Infallibility means and what it doesn't before discussing it.


Eric

oh, I wouldn't waste my time studying something so wrong
why don't YOU enlighten me there boy
the pope has just admitted the earth goes around the sun a couple years ago

I would beg the wise and learned fathers (of the church) to consider with all diligence the difference which exists between matters of mere opinion and matters of demonstration. ... [I]t is not in the power of professors of the demonstrative sciences to alter their opinions at will, so as to be now of one way of thinking and now of another. ... [D]emonstrated conclusions about things in nature of the heavens, do not admit of being altered with the same ease as opinions to what is permissible or not, under a contract, mortgage, or bill of exchange.
— Galileo Galilei
Letter to Cristina di Lorena, Grand Duchess of Tuscany (the mother of his patron Cosmo), 1615. Quoted in Sedley Taylor, 'Galileo and Papal Infallibility' (Dec 1873), in Macmillan's Magazine: November 1873 to April 1874 (1874) Vol 29, 9

www.todayinsci.com...

just a little of the truth re the mafia banker that kills the innocent at every investment

Originally posted by Danbones

Originally posted by EricD

Originally posted by Danbones
Well, the INFALLIBLE pope(s) DID say the sun goes round the earth in a circle...
which is what he(they) would decree if they were sent by the devil to discredit christianity

You may want to brush up on what Papal Infallibility means and what it doesn't before discussing it.
Eric

oh, I wouldn't waste my time studying something so wrong
why don't YOU enlighten me there boy
the pope has just admitted the earth goes around the sun a couple years ago

I haven't been rude or disrespectful of you. I would appreciate the courtesy of same from you.

The reason why you might want to look it up is that you are referencing it where it doesn't apply. It's like condemning the Yankees for not getting any touchdowns all season.

Catholicism teaches that Papal Infallibility is the Pope being protected from teaching in error in matters of faith and morals and it has to be proclaimed that he is doing so. This has happened about 5 times in the two thousand years of the Church.

Agree with it or disagree with it (and I'm pretty sure which you'll choose), but at least now you know what you are discussing.

Eric

perhaps you missed the quote I posted

reply to post by Danbones


No, I didn't miss it. I just don't see the relevance.

Are you saying that Galileo claimed that the Pope was speaking ex cathedra?

Eric

reply to post by THE_PROFESSIONAL
reply to post by THE_PROFESSIONAL
I’m not an atheist, more of an agnostic who doesn’t mind attributing the achievements of men to the minds of men (and women of course!). In fact, attributing anything impressive or full of the ‘Wow Factor,’ to God, gods or aliens usually bugs me a little.

So how could Mohamed or his advisors and scholars possibly work out how to aim a straight line in the direction of the Qibla in Mecca? Well, there were rather potent astronomers and the ability to identify the cardinal points (East, West etc) had been around for a couple of thousand years. Not only the Egyptians could align buildings to such points but the North Europeans had been doing so at the same time and without any (known) contact (passage graves, megaliths).

How could they combine astronomy with cardinal points to line up the Qibla? From Mecca, it would be possible to chart the movement of planets and stars and where they ascended on the horizon facing East, for example. The degree of difference between true East and the movement of the specific star/planet and where it rose above the horizon could be recorded. This would then be given to the guys at Sanaa. They could look due East and factor in the degree of difference to arrive at a pretty good bearing.

The art of surveying (plotting the layout for construction) had been demonstrated by the fine minds of Egypt and has passed through the literature of Greeks, Romans and other civilisations who Islamic scholars had studied. Surveying wasn’t a problem.

What about the alignment with the mountain peak? It’s good! The thing is, given the position of the mountain between Mecca and Sanaa, it couldn’t really be anything but central to the alignment – that’s just geography. Now, if Mohamed or his advisors wanted to really elevate their new mosque to the status of God-given…they just *might* have noted the alignment and the myth came about by convenience.

I’m eating my breakfast and going to work now. Sorry about the lack of links, but it’s early and time’s ticking. It’s a great OP and well-researched but I think man’s intelligence is more likely than secret signals being received from the Almighty.

reply to post by EricD

Papal Infallibility- A SummaryPapal infallibility was formalized at the First Vatican Council, A.D. 1870. It is required belief for Roman Catholics but is rejected by evangelicals. On examination, the major biblical texts used to defend this dogma do not support the Catholic position. Further, there are serious theological and historical problems with the doctrine of papal infallibility. Infallibility stands as an irrevocable roadblock to any ecclesiastical union between Catholics and Protestants.

According to Roman Catholic dogma, the teaching magisterium of the church of Rome is infallible when officially defining faith and morals for believers. One manifestation of this doctrine is popularly known as “papal infallibility.” It was pronounced a dogma in A.D. 1870 at the First Vatican Council. Since this is a major bone of contention between Catholics and Protestants, it calls for attention here.

Papal Infallibility- THE DOCTRINE EXPLAINED

Roman Catholic authorities define infallibility as “immunity from error, i.e., protection against either passive or active deception. Persons or agencies are infallible to the extent that they can neither deceive nor be deceived.”1 Regarding the authority of the pope, Vatican I pronounced that

all the faithful of Christ must believe “that the Apostolic See and the Roman Pontiff hold primacy over the whole world, and that the Pontiff of Rome himself is the successor of the blessed Peter, the chief of the apostles, and is the true [vicar] of Christ and head of the whole Church and faith, and teacher of all Christians; and that to him was handed down in blessed Peter, by our Lord Jesus Christ, full power to feed, rule, and guide the universal Church, just as is also contained in the records of the ecumenical Councils and in the sacred canons.”2

Furthermore, the Council went on to speak of “The Infallible ‘Magisterium’ [teaching authority] of the Roman Pontiff,” declaring that

when he speaks ex cathedra, that is, when carrying out the duty of the pastor and teacher of all Christians in accord with his supreme apostolic authority he explains a doctrine of faith or morals to be held by the Universal Church, through the divine assistance promised him in blessed Peter, operates with that infallibility with which the divine Redeemer wished that His church be instructed in defining doctrine on faith and morals; and so such definitions of the Roman Pontiff from himself, but not from the consensus of the Church, are unalterable. [emphases added]3

www.equip.org...

in support of my above post

reply to post by Danbones


Ok, unless you are saying the solar observations fall under faith and morals, I'm just not getting your point.

I don't think we are effectively communicating here, so I'm going to drop it. Have a good night.

Eric

reply to post by THE_PROFESSIONAL


well I always suspected you were a muslim.Muhammed was strongly clairvoyant and capable of remote viewing .But I prefer listening to sufi masters than Muhammed.Secondly a lot of knowledge was given to Muhammad from the planetary intelligences,particularly moon. In case of Christianity it was Neptune. In case of jews it was Saturn. In the case of roman and Greek pagans it was Jupiter.

The Problem of Galileo. Perhaps one of the greatest embarrassments to the “infallible” church is its fallible judgment about Galileo Galilei (A.D. 1564-1642), generally known as Galileo. In opposition to Galileo and the Copernican solar-centric theory he adopted, the Catholic church sided with the scientifically outdated Ptolemaic geocentric universe. In A.D. 1616, the Copernican theory was condemned at Rome.26 Aristotelian scientists, the Jesuits, the Dominicans, and three popes (Paul V, Gregory XV, and Urban VIII), played key roles in the controversy. Galileo was summoned by the Inquisition in 1632, tried, and on June 21, 1633, pronounced “vehemently suspected of heresy.” Eventually Pope Urban VIII allowed Galileo to return to his home in Florence, where he remained under house arrest until his death in 1642. After the church had suffered many centuries of embarrassment for its condemnation of Galileo, on November 10, 1979, Pope John Paul II spoke to the Pontifical Academy of Science. In the address titled, “Faith, Science and the Galileo Case,” the pope called for a reexamination of the whole episode.27 On May 9, 1983, while addressing the subject of the church and science, John Paul II conceded that “Galileo had ‘suffered from departments of the church.’”28 This, of course, is not a clear retraction of the condemnation, nor does it solve the problem of how an infallible pronouncement of the Catholic church could be in error. Roman Catholic responses to the Galileo episode leave something to be desired. One Catholic authority claims that while both Paul V and Urban VIII were committed anti-Copernicans, their pronouncements were not ex cathedra. The decree of A.D. 1616 “was issued by the Congregation of the Index, which can raise no difficulty in regard of infallibility, this tribunal being absolutely incompetent to make a dogmatic decree.”29 As to the second trial in 1633, which also resulted in a condemnation of Galileo, this sentence is said to be of lesser importance because it “did not receive the Pope’s signature.”30 Another Catholic authority states that although the theologians’ treatment of Galileo was inappropriate, “the condemnation was the act of a Roman Congregation and in no way involved infallible teaching authority.”31 Still another source observes, “The condemnation of Galileo by the Inquisition had nothing to do with the question of papal infallibility, since no question of faith or morals was papally condemned ex cathedra.“32 And yet another Catholic apologist suggests that, although the decision was a “regrettable” case of “imprudence,” there was no error made by the pope, since Galileo was not really condemned of heresy but only strongly suspected of it. None of these ingenious solutions is very convincing, having all the earmarks of after-the-fact tinkering with the pronouncements that resulted from this episode.

www.equip.org...

here perhaps this explains your confusion
now back to the topic at hand

reply to post by Praetorius

Islam has always been a direct challenge to the continued legitimacy of both judaism and christianity.

How?
Islam acknowledges the prophethood of all the Old Testament prophets.
Islam acknowledges the messiahship of Jesus.
Islam reiterates the teachings of the unity of God.
How exactly does it challenge the "continued legitimacy of both judaism and christianity".

In reality Judaism and christianity challenge each other...
Judaism with its denial of Jesus as messiah....and christianity with its concept of the "trinity"... or Jesus being God. So theologically, Judaism and Christianity are incompatible... yet, the phrase "judeo-christianity" is used as if jews and christians agree on everything...and are on the same side.

Satan, or any other being working in opposition to the actual will of God would of course want to make it look as good as possible.

Are you christian?
Do you remember Jesus words... "how can Satan drive out Satan"? He was implying that Satan will not work against himself.

Then we know that Islam identifies Satan as an enemy. So if Islam was Satan's doing, as is often alleged by christians... then why would satan give himself away as the enemy?....thereby acting contrary to Jesus' teachings?

reply to post by Danbones

I think Eric D has folded for the night. May I offer a comment? The first sentence of the article you used as a source is

Papal Infallibility- A SummaryPapal infallibility was formalized at the First Vatican Council, A.D. 1870.

If your source is correct, and I think it is, then infallibility came into play hundreds of years after Galileo. The Pope couldn't have claimed infallibility at that time.

I couldn't read through all the posts but:
1. Wouldn't there have already been a road, trail, path that lead to Mecca already? So all they would've had to do is build the mosque facing the road to Sonaa, Yemen.

Great OP but I'll never believe God talks to anyone, ever. There may be a Creator out there but I don't believe he has anything to do with any man-made religion (cult). Actually I believe religions started off as astronomy knowledge and all the stories and gods and characters in those stories were simply allegorical representations of the planets, stars, constellations and their positions in the heavens in relation to our view from Earth. Somewhere in history people started taking the stories literally and now religion has our civilization all f*%!'d up.

reply to post by Praetorius


So did the Egyptians, Aztecs, Mayans, ECT.... All have divine intervention on precisely aligning their temples/pyramids as well? Or what about Stone Henge....there are lots of examples you could use....

Originally posted by THE_PROFESSIONAL
At this point what about the pure disbelievers: atheitsts etc...

While there are some people on here who believe it came from another one of God's creations like Satan, there are some who believe it came from God.

What about those non-believers how do not believe in any of those...what are your theories and evidence to back it up please.

My personal dogma is not to believe anything at all. You have showed that a place lines up to another place. The how being the void. One can choose to fill the void with god, alien, ancient knowledge, superman, luck, magic or something else. It does not matter to me.

I am happy not believing. There is no need to back not believing up. Not believing is leaving the voids being voids. No need to fill them with rubbish. I like voids...


Naked.

Receiving paranormal information is not exclusive to Islam.

Fascinating nonetheless.

ALL false religions are Illuminati created...

"Every major religion in the world has been manufactured or infiltrated by the Illuminati to enslave and brainwash society. In essence, religion was the first form of mind control. The indoctrination of the masses by a "Trojan Horse" false religion has allowed the Illuminati to take control and work in secret for many, many years."

Journalist Greg Szymanski, (A former Catholic) is among many who believe that Islam was actually nurtured and created by the Roman Catholic Church, which followed Machiavellian tactics to "create a controlled opposition". Islam wiped out many of the early Christian peoples in North Africa and Turkey, which the pope and the RCC could not control several centuries before the Crusades. Visit Vatican Assassins.org to learn more. (though I don't totally agree with EJ Phelps completely)

Originally posted by THE_PROFESSIONAL
reply to post by lostinspace

 

Does Islam hold any high regard for the number seven?

Yes they do indeed:

The Seven Heavens in Islam

Seven layers of hell

The seven layers of the earth..etc

And that’s a problem for islam since it proves who ever wrote the koran has a flat earth/Ptolemaic view of the universe – which was the ‘scientific’ view of that time and not a mistake a creator of the universe would make – right?

Sura Yasin (36:38)
And the sun runs on its fixed course for a term (appointed). That is the Decree of the All-Mighty, the All-Knowing.
Sura Yasin (36:40)
It is not for the sun to overtake the moon, nor does the night outstrip the day. They all float, each in an orbit.

Or

Sura Al-Kahf (18:86)
Until, when he reached the setting place of the sun, he found it setting in a spring of black muddy (or hot) water. And he found near it a people. We (Allâh) said (by inspiration): "O Dhul-Qarnain! Either you punish them, or treat them with kindness."
Sura Al-Kahf (18:90)
Until, when he came to the rising place of the sun, he found it rising on a people for whom We (Allâh) had provided no shelter against the sun.

Which are even more bizarre

www.answering-islam.org...

Text
Deceptive God, Incompetent Messiah
What Islam Really Teaches About Allah and Jesus

By David Wood
FACT #1: The Qur’an states that Jesus was a messenger of Allah and a prophet of Islam. Indeed, Surah 19 tells us that Jesus began preaching Islamic theology the moment he was born
FACT #2: The Qur’an states that Jesus won a number of followers.
FACT #3: If there were first-century Jews who converted to Islam at the preaching of Jesus, they didn’t last very long
FACT #4: The Qur’an states that Allah deceived people into believing that Jesus had died on the cross

Allah Spreads the False Religion He Accidentally Started

FACT #5: The Qur’an states that Allah helped spread Christianity

If Islam Is True . .
If Christianity Is True . . .

If Christianity is true, then the following statements are also true:
(1) People can only come to God through Jesus Christ.
(2) Satan is a real spirit being who wants to keep people from God.[18]