Originally posted by MagnumOpus
Interesting story---but sounds a good bit like trying to impress a gal or needing fellowship.

No, I was much too independent-minded for either of those options.
But of course you weren't there to hear the kind of fight I was putting up.
I never expected to be swept along in that direction.

Originally posted by schuyler
I just can't envision reading a few words in a book and having a Damascus moment.

I didn't envisage it either.
Yes, there's an element of mystery in the thing.
And where would this mystery come from? And how could a Creator God get involved and not bring in an element of mystery?

Originally posted by DISRAELI

Originally posted by MagnumOpus
Interesting story---but sounds a good bit like trying to impress a gal or needing fellowship.

No, I was much too independent-minded for either of those options.
But of course you weren't there to hear the kind of fight I was putting up.
I never expected to be swept along in that direction.

I have these little debates on Christianty all the time. I generally win. But I get out the sciences and the ancient history and tie all the pieces together.

The Masons also teach much the same details.

But surely you have taken note that Revelation speaks to the organized churches views of jesus as being wrong, yet you jumped back on board?

Originally posted by MagnumOpus
I have these little debates on Christianty all the time. I generally win. But I get out the sciences and the ancient history and tie all the pieces together.

Your comment was about my motivation, and that's what I answered.

But surely you have taken note that Revelation speaks to the organized churches views of jesus as being wrong, yet you jumped back on board?

Last year I completed a systematic series of threads on Revelation, and all I noticed on this point is that Revelation identifies Jesus with the Creator God, which is in agreement with the organised churches.

Hi OP, you were never really an Atheist, you just didn't like the christian faith u had when u were with ur family and you juts thought "its silly, i don't believe it.. guess i am an atheist now".

Atheist is more than just saying "wow this is just stupid, i don't want it, il be an atheist", most atheist, or at least the smart ones research each religion and find out how they are portrayed and compare upon them, they dont want to be part of it because they don't believe in any at all and look at them as just man made agendas.

If an Atheist turns religious, imo, they were never really an Atheist.

I myself claim to be a spiritual atheist... i interested in energy, chi, chakra, karma etc and i believe they exist(human latent abilities). Not Gods and such.

Originally posted by luciddream
If an Atheist turns religious, imo, they were never really an Atheist.

I wonder if you realise that this is precisely (mutatis mutandis) the stance taken by the strict Calvinist.
He will say "it is impossible for any of the Elect to fall away from the faith, so if someone falls away from the faith, that shows he was never one of the Elect".
How do you feel about having a viewpoint similar to strict Calvinism?

I don't accept that your narrow definition of atheism has any authority. Linguistically, "atheism" is the negation of "theism". "Theism" means belief in a THEOS, a god. Atheism is the conscious rejection of such a belief.

It's very ironic. At college, I had an agnostic room-mate who tried to tell me that I could not be an atheist because atheists did not exist. Since then, I have had Christians telling me that I could not have been an atheist because atheists did not exist. I think this is the first time I have had an atheist telling me that I was not an atheist. Don't start getting ecclesiastical about this- I'm satisfied that I was an atheist by any reasonable definition.

Having been a Christian my whole life, it wasn't until a few years ago that I wanted to start reading and learning the Bible. I've always known that Jesus Christ is Lord, but was never interested in reading the Word.
Since I've been a member here DISRAELI has helped me out tremendously in my journey to understand the Word of God.

Thank you D for your patience, passion, and strong will to help us better understand the Bible.

Originally posted by will615
Having been a Christian my whole life, it wasn't until a few years ago that I wanted to start reading and learning the Bible. I've always known that Jesus Christ is Lord, but was never interested in reading the Word.
Since I've been a member here DISRAELI has helped me out tremendously in my journey to understand the Word of God.

Thank you D for your patience, passion, and strong will to help us better understand the Bible.

Good to hear. Without reading the word it is hard to grow spiritually. In order to grow in the spirit you need the food. Since i became a christian about a year ago i have found a desire to know Christ more, and only one way to do that. At the same time i have become obsessed with him, looking for him in the old testament, studying prophecy and the jewish feasts and how christianity mirrors judaism.

Keep that fire for him, and maybe one day we will meet at the end of the road where he is waiting.

Originally posted by luciddream
Im not sure how you went from not believing to believing.. what does that make you?

It makes me someone who changed my mind- what is so difficult about that idea?

It's like seeing something for the first time, like turning a corner and catching sight of a building. One moment you cannot see it. The next moment you can. That doesn't mean that you could "really" see it all along. It just means that something has changed.

btw D,
Where is that girl today? Are you still in touch? If so, she would be proud of the change.

Originally posted by DISRAELI

Originally posted by MagnumOpus
I have these little debates on Christianty all the time. I generally win. But I get out the sciences and the ancient history and tie all the pieces together.

Your comment was about my motivation, and that's what I answered.

But surely you have taken note that Revelation speaks to the organized churches views of jesus as being wrong, yet you jumped back on board?

Last year I completed a systematic series of threads on Revelation, and all I noticed on this point is that Revelation identifies Jesus with the Creator God, which is in agreement with the organised churches.

My comment was on your techniques used to address the issues of Christianity. I use science, other books of history for those times, etc. Perhaps for a specific example---did you bring up the issue that the only place in the Biblical Narrative that Trinity is addressed was added or forged into John's and they didn't buy Trinity in the times of Jesus. Did you bring up that issue?

You say you have quite a defense, what were your defense arguements?

Well, since you have a "series of treads" on Revelation, then show everyone what you came up with and lets check the contexts and see if you are off into neverland with problems of either translations or metaphor. Toss out a few citations that show how you came to where you are now.

Then we can get a feel for if your knowledge base was corrupt or solid.

Thank you for that testimony, Disraeli! I was also an atheist for about ten years, under the influence of Ayn Rand. When I was 24, I began to pursue a career in medical technology. Well the career turned out to be just a series of jobs, and I'm lately retired from it, but it did get me in contact with a fellow student who invited me to a creation vs evolution debate, an instructor who told me about Old Testament history, and a co-worker who introduced me to a group of Christians whose religion made a difference in their lives. I've been a follower of Jesus since about 1977.

"The real deciding factor had been personal preference; unbelief was a much more comfortable, less demanding, option, and that was my reason for choosing it."

"I finally came to the point of making a decision. Giving up the attempt to work things out on my own, I decided to put my trust in an action of faith, and I made the suggested prayer. I was expecting some kind of tangible spiritual change, but nothing seemed to be happening, so I went to bed."




Madness, absolute madness.... So, let me get this straight... you chose religion because it was easier not to question anything, because this girl gave you a book and you wanted to nail her.... and because you couldn't be bothered to try to work things out for yourself... you sir, are a disgrace to this community.... those 2 statements go against eveything ATS stands for..... I wish you luck in this Thread... you're going to need it...

I would argue vehemently that being an Atheist is a considerably harder life to lead... to believe that the universe is governed by chaos and random actions takes courage my friend... to know that after death there is nothing takes courage my friend... and to work things out for one's self takes patience and logic.

I really didn't understand your thought process in this process... your writing, although acomplished, lacks the detail with which to understand your decision....

The way you tell the story presently makes it seem like you just couldn't be bothered to think for yourself any longer.... and I'm sorry, but to say that one book changed your hole opinion is just ludicrous....

You go on to say that any question you could pose yourself could be answered with the phrase, "Well why not", I'll tell you why not.... because it's not scientifically provable, logical or just plain likely....

I should end this diatribe by telling you that I am not an Atheist.... neither am I religious... neither side has the answers I am looking for as far as I can see.... but to make the decisions you made, for the reasons you gave, sounds ridiculous to me...

PA.

Originally posted by Lazarus Short
Thank you for that testimony, Disraeli! I was also an atheist for about ten years, under the influence of Ayn Rand. When I was 24, I began to pursue a career in medical technology. Well the career turned out to be just a series of jobs, and I'm lately retired from it, but it did get me in contact with a fellow student who invited me to a creation vs evolution debate, an instructor who told me about Old Testament history, and a co-worker who introduced me to a group of Christians whose religion made a difference in their lives. I've been a follower of Jesus since about 1977.

edit on 28-5-2012 by Lazarus Short because: lah-de-dah

Lazrus... I for one would be very interested in what was presented at the "creation vs evolution debate" that made you decide the way you did? Must have been important information? Care to share?

Also, while I'm here, religion has a positive effect on nearly every single religious person I know.... but it also severely blunts their overall understanding of the universe and what we see around us.... I would find it very difficult to live a life with so much wonder and intrigue all aorund me, while simultaneously being told I am not worthy to understand it, let alone question it....

PA.

Originally posted by Lazarus Short
Thank you for that testimony, Disraeli! I was also an atheist for about ten years, under the influence of Ayn Rand. When I was 24, I began to pursue a career in medical technology. Well the career turned out to be just a series of jobs, and I'm lately retired from it, but it did get me in contact with a fellow student who invited me to a creation vs evolution debate, an instructor who told me about Old Testament history, and a co-worker who introduced me to a group of Christians whose religion made a difference in their lives. I've been a follower of Jesus since about 1977.

edit on 28-5-2012 by Lazarus Short because: lah-de-dah

These days one has to define if you like Jesus, The Man, or Jesus, the god theme.

It makes a lot of difference in the world which version of Jesus.