Return of Christ and the "end times"

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by arpgme

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
.... those raptured have no way of receiving the martyrs crown anyways. I've been hoping for that blessing for years and it's pretty hard being a believer in the United States where persecution is pretty much non-existent.

Wow, it's very scary what Christianity can do to a person. People are wishing to die... very creepy.

Everyone dies for one thing, and for two, this world is crap. For those destined for Heaven this planet is the closest to Hell we'll ever experience, for those destined to Hell this planet is the closest to Heaven they'll ever experience.

Sorry, just ready for my parole.

That's because you were trained to see the world as "crap". There are good things and bad things here...

Look at all of the new medicine and technology we are discovering to make life better and better and how slavery is getting less and less in the modern world (at least the whip and slash slavery)...

Instead of being excited for death and rushing to die, why not enjoy this place while you can? After all, if you are going to heaven in eternal happiness, this is the only pain that you'll experience, right? Wouldn't that make heaven feel even better?

reply to post by arpgme


"Trained"? What do you mean "trained"? The world is crap. You have rich and successful people all over the world who are killing themselves and they have everything. The night Deion Sanders won the Super Bowl he ordered a Lamborghini on the phone, and right after that he contemplated ending it all with suicide. I'm not saying there are not good aspects or fun days in this world, but compared to Heaven this is a horrible existence. It just is. Heck, they use pure gold to pave the streets up there. lol We kill people just to have a couple ounces of it here to hoard.

Instead of being excited for death and rushing to die, why not enjoy this place while you can? After all, if you are going to heaven in eternal happiness, this is the only pain that you'll experience, right? Wouldn't that make heaven feel even better?

Hello! I'm a Christian, I want to be with the Lord face to face for eternity. ASAP. lol He's not here, He's up there sitting on His Father's throne right now.

reply to post by JesuitGarlic


No, no sermons. Most folks I have seen completely mix up their Israelology and Ekklesiology. Mix-mash them into one doctrine/end times worldview. They completely fail Daniel chapter 9. The greatest Eschatelogical teacher I've ever seen or heard from is Perry Stone Jr. And Eschatology has been my specific point of study for over a decade now. Many others make some great arguments, but Perry shreds them all. Dr. Joe VanKoevering does an outstanding piece on the Man of Sin, and Walid Shoebat does a superb job explaining the Islamic aspect of the end times.

Originally posted by JesuitGarlic

reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Not every justified person will be raptured, the over-comers who are deemed worthy by the Lord and who are looking intently for His return will be going.

The great period of testing is going to divide up the world into 2 camps. All those in God's camp when Jesus returns (not the faked second coming by Satan first though!) will be called up with Him in mid-air. Thus all those justified will be ruptured. The the tribulation period hasn't come yet to determine of those that are alive who are justified

The great period of testing you speak of is the "Time of JACOB'S Trouble". Yes, it will divide the world into 2 camps, that is correct, but the bride of Christ will not be on Earth. There are many more elect folks in the Bible who are not members of the bride or body of Christ.

All members of the bride are elect, however not all elect are members of the bride. The ekklesia and Israel have different destinies in God's plan. But the remnant of the Jews will be brought to their Messiah during the Great Tribulation. In their affliction they will seek Him earnestly. (Hosea 5:15)

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Not every justified person will be raptured, the over-comers who are deemed worthy by the Lord and who are looking intently for His return will be going. The over-comers and the "wise" virgins.

This must be a philosophy peculiar to your cult.
In order to have a cult, you need a mechanism to make the cult members feel special and to be rewarded for their loyalty to the cult.

I suppose so, the "I read Revelation 2 and 3 literally cult". In those letters to the 7 churches Christ only promises the blessings to the "overcomers". Churches like Thyatira and Laodecia are told specifically they will endure the Tribulation if they do not repent. Philadelphia is explicitly promised to be spared from it.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Umm, the entire point of the "resurrection" is to resurrect the BODIES of those who are already dead in Christ.

So according to you, God is restrained to vacuuming up all the atoms you were made of and reassembling them, and can not do it any other way.

He can use any atoms available on Earth, Humans are made literally of the 17 elements that common dirt is made from. God could reassemble them in the blink of an eye, that would be a simple task for the Almighty with just 1 piece of DNA.

This is the same God who called the known universe into existence with a single spoken sentence. Give Him a little credit.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

The great period of testing you speak of is the "Time of JACOB'S Trouble". Yes, it will divide the world into 2 camps, that is correct, but the bride of Christ will not be on Earth. There are many more elect folks in the Bible who are not members of the bride or body of Christ.

Hence why it is called "Jacob's Trouble". This is where the lost tribes get redeemed, such as the ones who finally relent and say "blessed is he who comes in the name of YHWH". Jacob's Trouble is designed specifically to bring those stiffnecked jews to their knees and acknowledge Yeshua and bring them to him to which they can be redeemed. Jacob's Trouble will be where he shows them who is boss and that he is the one calling all the shots and in control. As well as giving those who did not make it in the harpazo event a second chance for redemption

reply to post by NOTurTypical

I suppose so, the "I read Revelation 2 and 3 literally cult".

If you read them literally, then you would understand that they were messages to the people alive at the time that Revelation was written.
Obviously you are not reading them literally, so you or your cult are putting an interpretation onto them, apparently where the various churches represent the attitudes of individuals, where their fates are tied to the ones that ere given to those churches that correspond to the readers.
There is nothing in the text itself that would suggest this is how one should interpret the letters, so you have no grounds for your claim of a "literal" reading.
A literal reading by Christians not of a cult affiliation is that Jesus is demonstrating his sovereignty over the churches.

reply to post by jmdewey60


There is also a homoletical (personal) application to the 7 letters:

"He who has an ear (me) hear what the Spirit says to the churcheS." (Plural)

..........................

reply to post by NOTurTypical

There is also a homoletical (personal) application to the 7 letters:

"He who has an ear (me) hear what the Spirit says to the churcheS." (Plural)

As opposed to what, don't listen, or only listen to what it says about your particular church?

Homiletics (Gr. homiletikos, from homilos, to assemble together), in theology the application of the general principles of rhetoric to the specific department of public preaching. The one who practices or studies homiletics is called a homilist.
en.wikipedia.org...

Which means someone can read a passage and them go ahead and give a discourse on the topic brought up in that passage.
I am guessing that what you really mean is that the passage itself is a sort of homily.
Biblical scholars classify the letters to the churches as rhetoric.
They would go on to say that to take the letters to apply personally (to us today) would be done through a logic of symbolism, which would not be a literal reading like you claim.

reply to post by jmdewey60


I rarely care what scholars have to say. Most of them have never had the baptism of the Holy Ghost. Homoletical applications imply a personal application. And we're told that in the letters, he who has an ear hear what the Spirit says to the churches. There are 4 levels of application for those letters.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

I rarely care what scholars have to say. Most of them have never had the baptism of the Holy Ghost.

You don't know that, and I have to assume your only basis for thinking that is a cult view point, where anyone not of your cult has to be damned by definition. I would question your own claim to "baptism of the Holy Ghost" considering your admittance of hating life and the world.

Homoletical applications imply a personal application. . . There are 4 levels of application for those letters.

According to what or who?
The only literal application is what is stated: " . . . all the churches will know that I am the one who searches minds and hearts. I will repay each one of you what your deeds deserve."
Revelation 2:23

reply to post by jmdewey60


According to the text. And most scholars deny the baptism of the Holy Ghost as a subsequent experience to conversion. And this comes from my cult manual, chapters John and Acts. The apostles were given the Holy Spirit when Christ appeared to them after His resurrection. When He breathed on them and said "receive ye the Holy Ghost." Then told them to tarry until they received the promise of the baptism of the Holy Ghost, which happened at Pentecost.

Originally posted by MagnumOpus

Originally posted by Innerlight

A physical return of Christ with its complete destruction of the world, so widely speculated on, is not true. Rather, Christ appears a second time, the Revelation (revealing) of Christ, in the hearts of individual believers, who have prepared the way for him to be revealed in them; he, who has been hidden within, is revealed. As Paul said: it has pleased the Father to reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him. The appearance of Christ, his revelation within you, and entering the Kingdom of Heaven is the completion of salvation. Thousands have already experienced Christ's second appearance as revealed within as documented in scripture and in the writings of George Fox and several other 17th Century Quakers.

Most of what you are telling is consistent with the Essene, Therapute, and Jesus view for Reincarnation. It happens in the individual believers as they dig deeply into the Jesus The Way Message. You have to undestand the Last Supper's replacement of Sacrifices.

When you dig deeply enough you find the Essene, Therapute and Jesus wanted Heaven to be right here on Earth, and stem from everyone finding these truths of religion that are sometimes hard to understand.

All of the old religions came from the issues of the Annunaki theme for god, even the one for Jesus. Jesus method of the Way was a better way to comprehind god and depart from the 2nd temple and Babylon's ways. It was a shift from wars and killings to love thy neighbor, provide good stewardship to all others, live in a socialized harmony.

All the Jesus theme for the Return is based on the theme of Reincarnation. If everyone can get on board with the Jesus simple truths the world can move past the embellished miracles and into a kinder gentler world and peace.

Reincarnation isn't difficult to see in these writings.

If folks want Jesus back then do some work with learning a good bit more, and take the steps up Jacob's ladder and you will come to understand Jesus The Way.

You won't find this at your local organized churches, which don't teach how to find Jesus Reincarnate within the person's personal learning. The organized churches are blind to the greater details of Yahway and the serpent symbolism of old that involve this special blood theme. It was a time for great changes on Earth, which happened before the times of Noah, which the Bible totally ignores because they could not explain the mystery.

Today, we can largely begin to explain the mystery. And with that comes the better knowledge for finding Jesus The Way message explained more clearly.

edit on 27-5-2012 by MagnumOpus because: Finding the Way appears for those that read more deeply into the past before Noah

The bible does not teach reincarnation it teach just the opposite.
Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

Yu the Great (Chinese: 大禹; pinyin: Dà Yǔ, c. 2200 - 2100 BC), [1] was a legendary ruler in ancient China famed for his introduction of flood control, inaugurating[2][3]


en.m.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


Could you explain this second chance to me as I can't see where this is mentioned.

As well as giving those who did not make it in the harpazo event a second chance for redemption

If they are going to have any second chance it is because have the seal of God comes from keeping the Divine Law and to the best of their knowledge they are still faithful to these. If they remain faithful to their teaching then this seems like a kind of second chance to me. I don't know where the Jesus component comes into the equation for them though.

Based on the video I posted though on who the real Israel is now, there is no reason for America to be protecting the nation of Israel because they are referring to two separate things. The 144,000 will be spreading the message of the 3 angels to the whole world and not one particular group like Christians only.

reply to post by JesuitGarlic


Missing the harpazo is a punishment, they must endure the hour of trial spoken of in Rev. 3:10, Jesus warns of in the letters to the 7 churches, it seems that throughout the ages there may have always been 7 different flavors of believers. Because they didn't keep to their first love and were not found worthy to go in the first calling, their next chance to prove their love for him will be to lose their heads in his name, and they will be taken in the second calling.

I don't take the Jehovah's Witness view that each seperate church was in a different time period over the last 2000 years, even though it does make sense if you throw the Roman Catholic Church into the equation, but that's just now how humanity works, it is more logical to conclude that the 7 churches have always been in existence all the way from their literal physical church based in Turkey/Thrace.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


If the churches were in any oyher order it wouldnt be true. And btw, the JWs didnt invent that concept, they stole the idea.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

If the churches were in any oyher order it wouldnt be true. And btw, the JWs didnt invent that concept, they stole the idea.

Yes but what makes me say what i have about the different flavors of believers is because there is. You have members from the loveless church, the persecuted church, the compromising church (nicolaitans), the corrupt church, the dead church, the faithful church and the lukewarm church all represented today throught christianity.