Return of Christ and the "end times"

reply to post by NOTurTypical

Like I said previously, not every believer will be raptured. It's a blessing for the overcomer, not a blessing for salvation. There were 5 unwise virgins in the parable, but they were still virgins nonetheless. I doubt I'll be considered worthy to be raptured myself, and that's cool with me, those raptured have no way of receiving the martyrs crown anyways. I've been hoping for that blessing for years and it's pretty hard being a believer in the United States where persecution is pretty much non-existent.

We still suffer persecution bro. Persecution comes in many forms. We still suffer by having our children getting evolution shoved down their gullets while we helplessly stand by. The government removing anything of God left in schools, from the pledge of allegiance (which were not supposed to do by the way, taking oaths is forbidden) and the rights of our children to pray in school and for their lunches.

We suffer when people put up billboards making fun of our God and when people come in and set up strip clubs next to our churches (which happened where i used to live). We suffer when christians end up in the media and the public makes fun of them. We suffer when atheists tell us we believe in fairy tales and that Jesus is santa claus for adults.

For us in the U.S. it's a spiritual and mental battle, but it's about to reach a level that is going to get worse and they may even start killing us in the streets. I can feel the hatred boiling under the surface, with the approach of 12-21-12 people are going to start losing their sh*t on a frightening level because of this mayan prophecy crap and Nostradamus, which we can blame ancient alien theorists for, for dredging his crap up for sensationalism.

reply to post by Myrtales Instinct

Everything the Lord did in the physical was done so, so that when we experience it we can understand what is happening to us. He is not a God of confusion. At the end of the book of Revelation when he is saying, "I come quickly" it is in regards to his first coming. Like a final warning to repent and get with the program or you are going to be one of those who experience the wrath

I agree, because as he was changed so shall we be. Corruption cannot put on incorruption. I imagine seeing our bodies start glowing with light will frighten alot of people.

I don't think the rapture will be an event where no one notices.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical


Like I said previously, not every believer will be raptured.

I doubt I'll be considered worthy to be raptured myself, and that's cool with me, those raptured have no way of receiving the martyrs crown anyways.

What makes you feel this way?

Personally, I agree with you that not everyone who believes in Jesus and God's Word has chosen to live their lives according to God's will, despite the fact that they believe. It only takes repentance and the desire to live according to His Word to become a true believer. What makes you feel that you're not worthy?

Secondly, what makes you think that the martyr's crown is a greater reward than any others? Surely you know that the greatest rewards are given to those who believed and chose to live according to God's will and His Word. Is this where you feel you've fallen short? We've all fallen short of His will, but is your desire to correct it too weak?

Originally posted by arpgme

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
.... those raptured have no way of receiving the martyrs crown anyways. I've been hoping for that blessing for years and it's pretty hard being a believer in the United States where persecution is pretty much non-existent.

Wow, it's very scary what Christianity can do to a person. People are wishing to die... very creepy.

You fear death ? For us death is the ultimate victory. The early christians when a believer died they celebrated that believers death as their birthday.

There is victory even in death for us. It means we get to see our God-King after waiting for so long.

I pity you, that you should fear death. You wouldn't have to fear death if you would kneel and submit yourself before Christ, he is the Resurrection.

reply to post by Deetermined

Personally, I agree with you that not everyone who believes in Jesus and God's Word has chosen to live their lives according to God's will, despite the fact that they believe. It only takes repentance and the desire to live according to His Word to become a true believer. What makes you feel that you're not worthy?

James said that faith alone will not save us, faith without the works is dead. If believers do not give it their all the way Jesus did then they will likely be left. Jesus said "I AM the way the life and the truth", he meant that in every sense of the word.

James 2:14-24

14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

Faith alone doesn't ave you, gotta have the works to go with it.

This is where the Nicolaitans come into play, who teach that by being saved you have an unlimited ticket for licentiousness and perversity and can continue living as the world does. They ignore the commandment's Christ set down, particularly those spoken of in Matthew.

Jesus didn't do away with the old law and the prophets, he fulfilled them, by manifesting them into himself and he became the law. Alot of christians do not understand that this is what he was saying when he said "i have come not to do away with the old law and the prophets, but to fulfill them".

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


LOL, I meant persecution in the form of potential loss of life and or limb for the gospel, shedding blood. Not having our feelings hurt. REAL persecution. Read Foxe's Book of Martyrs, that will give you a good idea of enduring persecution for the gospel of Jesus Christ. People who aren't even saved suffer rejection, abuse, bullying, and the like. When someone mocks me for the gospel of Jesus Christ I never consider that "persecution". The apostles would laugh at me if I called that persecution compared to what they endured for Christ.

Originally posted by Deetermined

Originally posted by NOTurTypical


Like I said previously, not every believer will be raptured.

I doubt I'll be considered worthy to be raptured myself, and that's cool with me, those raptured have no way of receiving the martyrs crown anyways.

What makes you feel this way?

Personally, I agree with you that not everyone who believes in Jesus and God's Word has chosen to live their lives according to God's will, despite the fact that they believe. It only takes repentance and the desire to live according to His Word to become a true believer. What makes you feel that you're not worthy?

Secondly, what makes you think that the martyr's crown is a greater reward than any others? Surely you know that the greatest rewards are given to those who believed and chose to live according to God's will and His Word. Is this where you feel you've fallen short? We've all fallen short of His will, but is your desire to correct it too weak?

I just don't feel worthy, I can't give you a good reason. When I read that verse I do not have conviction in my spirit that I'm worthy to be raptured and stand before the Son of Man. I look at my life and I see great room for improvement compared to Christ.

Originally posted by JesuitGarlic
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Yeah, I am just not accustom to using the terminology of 'rapture', whenever I hear someone say it it is using associated with it being pre-tribulation and from that perspective the word always comes across the wrong way to me.
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Well there are heavenly rewards for a martyrs deaths but there is even more for the 144,000.

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Maybe you can't imagine persecution happening in the US but according to prophecy and the historical record of the US fulfilling the characteristics of the Beast of the Earth power that had lamb-like qualities but now speaks like a dragon, I think you will be in for a shock just what the US gets up to. It will be the first country leading others in the institution of the mark of the beast system, it has already given powers to your President to be able to determine whoever he wants as a terrorist and kill, torture or imprison them without any judicial oversight. That law and similar ones have come into the US just in the last 6 months. One search of FEMA camp guillotines reveals they are inline to fulfill prophecy about those who do not take the beast mark being beheaded

All this is even harder to imagine in my own country though as we have had little overall impact from the designed financial collapse affecting most of the developed world. Chaos scenarios seem unlikely but I can see how this can change rapidly as well

Well, the 144,000 are the faithful remnant of the tribes of Israel. They are Jews who will come to Christ and preach to the Jews during the GT. And "rapture" is a Latin term that people are familiar with, the English equivalent is "snatched away" or "caught up", the Greek term is "Harpazo". Rapture is just an English theological word we use for the catching away of the bride of Christ that is alive when Jesus returns to receive the dead in Him to take them to heaven for the marriage supper.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

LOL, I meant persecution in the form of potential loss of life and or limb for the gospel, shedding blood. Not having our feelings hurt. REAL persecution. Read Foxe's Book of Martyrs, that will give you a good idea of enduring persecution for the gospel of Jesus Christ. People who aren't even saved suffer rejection, abuse, bullying, and the like. When someone mocks me for the gospel of Jesus Christ I never consider that "persecution". The apostles would laugh at me if I called that persecution compared to what they endured for Christ.

Suffering is suffering, the package it comes in matters not. Some of the most grievous wounds dealt to christians comes in the form of mental attacks designed to make them lose faith and walk away in hoplessness. What effects the mind also effects the body. We will have our chance to lose life and limb before long. You will have your wish soon enough. Do not go thinking the apostles were perfect and that they did not suffer mentally either, the things people say to us were said also to them long ago. Hatred wears many forms.

Originally posted by JesuitGarlic
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

This whole rapture theory is very strange to me. The only kind of scenario I see of God removing certain portions of his people from harms way during the tribulation is Him putting the to 'sleep' or else they would not make it through the tribulation. But from my perspective, that is the whole point of the tribulation, to give a great period of testing to sort out who's faith will really stand them by God's side when the heat is on and the whole world seems against you. Hmmm I don't know how this works exactly when God doesn't allow Satan to test you more than your faith can handle. We'll see I guess

Like you, there is something very strange to me about the rapture theory. I always believed it, and in some way still do because of Jesus stating a time will come when he will send out his angels to gather the elect but since I experienced the baptism of the Holy Spirit, I believe what everyone is calling the "rapture" is actually said baptism. There are quite a few definitions for the word in loose terms, one of which is to seize by force. Because I know everyone hasn't experienced what I did and it's hard to not gauge others relationship with the Lord compared to all he has revealed to me. All I can say is I understand why there is confusion and why many jump on board to what they think it means. But still Jesus said he will send angels and if he said it, it will come to pass.

But keep in mind, that God always saves a remnant. When the flood came he had Noah build an ark and a few were saved. We know the earth is reserved for fire and we know that Jesus has went to prepare a place for us. A couple of years ago, I had a vision of the New Jerusalem it was only from a distance but I now believe with every fiber of my being that it is the ark angels will take people to. The doors/gates will be shut and because of what it is made out of and the thickness and size of it it will withstand the heat while the heavens and earth are destroyed. It will then return to earth and man will be scarce, but when the city sets down, the gates will be opened to never be shut again.

It makes comeplete sense, at least to me.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

LOL, I meant persecution in the form of potential loss of life and or limb for the gospel, shedding blood. Not having our feelings hurt. REAL persecution. Read Foxe's Book of Martyrs, that will give you a good idea of enduring persecution for the gospel of Jesus Christ. People who aren't even saved suffer rejection, abuse, bullying, and the like. When someone mocks me for the gospel of Jesus Christ I never consider that "persecution". The apostles would laugh at me if I called that persecution compared to what they endured for Christ.

Suffering is suffering, the package it comes in matters not. Some of the most grievous wounds dealt to christians comes in the form of mental attacks designed to make them lose faith and walk away in hoplessness. What effects the mind also effects the body. We will have our chance to lose life and limb before long. You will have your wish soon enough. Do not go thinking the apostles were perfect and that they did not suffer mentally either, the things people say to us were said also to them long ago. Hatred wears many forms.

You aren't understanding me. Do non-Christians get bullied? Yes, every day. Do non-Christians suffer? Yes, every day. Do non-Christians suffer mental attacks, yes, every day. To me it's no great act of service or worship to endure something for Christ that non-Christians endure every day for any reason under the sun. Getting a migraine isn't persecution. Cleaning up a bloody nose isn't "persecution". I did all that before I was ever saved. The apostles were never crucified upside down or thrown from the roof of the temple, or boiled in oil, or ripped apart by horses, or beheaded before they were saved and followed Jesus around. THAT'S persecution for Christ's sake, for His testimony.

Originally posted by Myrtales Instinct

Originally posted by JesuitGarlic
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

This whole rapture theory is very strange to me. The only kind of scenario I see of God removing certain portions of his people from harms way during the tribulation is Him putting the to 'sleep' or else they would not make it through the tribulation. But from my perspective, that is the whole point of the tribulation, to give a great period of testing to sort out who's faith will really stand them by God's side when the heat is on and the whole world seems against you. Hmmm I don't know how this works exactly when God doesn't allow Satan to test you more than your faith can handle. We'll see I guess

Like you, there is something very strange to me about the rapture theory. I always believed it, and in some way still do because of Jesus stating a time will come when he will send out his angels to gather the elect but since I experienced the baptism of the Holy Spirit, I believe what everyone is calling the "rapture" is actually said baptism. There are quite a few definitions for the word in loose terms, one of which is to seize by force. Because I know everyone hasn't experienced what I did and it's hard to not gauge others relationship with the Lord compared to all he has revealed to me. All I can say is I understand why there is confusion and why many jump on board to what they think it means. But still Jesus said he will send angels and if he said it, it will come to pass.

But keep in mind, that God always saves a remnant. When the flood came he had Noah build an ark and a few were saved. We know the earth is reserved for fire and we know that Jesus has went to prepare a place for us. A couple of years ago, I had a vision of the New Jerusalem it was only from a distance but I now believe with every fiber of my being that it is the ark angels will take people to. The doors/gates will be shut and because of what it is made out of and the thickness and size of it it will withstand the heat while the heavens and earth are destroyed. It will then return to earth and man will be scarce, but when the city sets down, the gates will be opened to never be shut again.

It makes comeplete sense, at least to me.

Paul spoke of the harpazo of the saints who were alive and remained after his baptism in the Holy Spirit in Damascus. And besides, the baptism in the Holy Ghost isn't a one-time event. If you notice the text closely in Acts the apostles were baptized in the Holy Ghost 4 times. The text, or better yet, the Greek tense of the verb implies to get filled and continue to be filled by the Holy Spirit. The point isn't to get a prayer language and sit in the back of the church falling out in the Spirit and speaking in tongues to oneself. The purpose of the fire baptism is to overflow and share that with others to the point of being drained and needing to go back to the well for another fresh infilling to again pour out to others. The purpose of the baptism in to equip the believer for Kingdom ministry.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

. . . this world is crap. For those destined for Heaven this planet is the closest to Hell we'll ever experience . . .

There is a possible Christian view different from the philosophy expressed above.
John 3:16
For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son . . .

God loved the world, enough to part with His son, and to give him over to the powers that held sway over it.

John 3:17
For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world should be saved through him.

God did not do this in order to destroy the world, but to save it.

John 12:47
. . . I did not come to judge the world, but to save it.

Not to punish, but to cure.

John 16:7,8
. . . For if I do not go away, the Advocate will not come to you, but if I go, I will send him to you. And when he comes, he will prove the world wrong concerning sin. . .

Jesus did the preparatory work for the coming spirit which will heal us through the convictions of right and wrong.

John 6:33
For the bread of God is the one who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.

Jesus brought the knowledge of truth which leads to life.

1 John 2:2
and he himself is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for our sins but also for the whole world.

Jesus' atoning work is sufficient to reconcile all people to God.

1 John 2:17
And the world is passing away with all its desires, but the person who does the will of God remains forever.

The former system which the world had been operating under, is being replaced by another.

1 John 4:14
And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.

Jesus was following the plan of God which will result in the world being saved.

1 Corinthians 7:31
. . . For the present form of this world is passing away.

Being replaced by a world of a better type.

1John 5:4,5
. . . This is the conquering power that has conquered the world: our faith. Now who is the person who has conquered the world except the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?

Following Jesus makes the world a better place, and as more people do that, the better the world becomes.

Colossians 2:20
If you have died with Christ to the elemental spirits of the world, why do you submit to them as though you lived in the world?

"The world" as in, the old system, obviously we still live in the physical world.

John 16:33
. . . but take courage – I have conquered the world.”

Jesus has driven out Satan as the ruler of the world.

John 1:9
The true light, who gives light to everyone, was coming into the world.

It is still here.

Hebrews 2:5
For he did not put the world to come, about which we are speaking, under the control of angels.

It is under Jesus who is bringing it in.

Romans 8:18
For I consider that our present sufferings cannot even be compared to the glory that will be revealed to us.

As in the glorious existence of the healed world as we ourselves become purified by the indwelling spirit of Christ.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

Look at it this way. Christ returns to gather all the dead in Him for the marriage supper of the Lamb, and to resurrect them. The "rapture/harpazo/catching away" event is simply the removal of those in Christ who are alive at the time Christ returns to resurrect His own who have passed on. Not to offend, but common sense says folks will be alive on Earth when Christ returns to resurrect His own. There will be folks alive who believe in Him.

The only thing in the Bible that bares any resemblance to this type of rapture event is in 1 Thess. and seems to be associated with a day of judgement like the people of that time believed was when everyone was going to be resurrected anyway, that if that day was to come and you were somehow still alive, then you would notice that those who had died in Christ were already alive and with Jesus.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Look at it this way. Christ returns to gather all the dead in Him for the marriage supper of the Lamb, and to resurrect them. The "rapture/harpazo/catching away" event is simply the removal of those in Christ who are alive at the time Christ returns to resurrect His own who have passed on. Not to offend, but common sense says folks will be alive on Earth when Christ returns to resurrect His own. There will be folks alive who believe in Him.

The only thing in the Bible that bares any resemblance to this type of rapture event is in 1 Thess. and seems to be associated with a day of judgement like the people of that time believed was when everyone was going to be resurrected anyway, that if that day was to come and you were somehow still alive, then you would notice that those who had died in Christ were already alive and with Jesus.

Umm, the entire point of the "resurrection" is to resurrect the BODIES of those who are already dead in Christ. Taking those who are alive at the time is just an added bonus. The resurrection of the saints is commonly referred to as "glorification" in the scriptures. The reason for the resurrection and the gathering of those who are alive at the time is to attend the marriage supper of the lamb. Not every justified person will be raptured, the over-comers who are deemed worthy by the Lord and who are looking intently for His return will be going. The over-comers and the "wise" virgins. As said before the "rapture/harpazo/catching away" event isn't a blessing for the justified in Christ, it's a blessing for the overcomer. We're told to wash our robes now, to pray that we be accounted worthy to escape these things that are coming.

reply to post by jmdewey60


No one is saying anything about Christ not dying for the world or coming to save the world. No matter how good aspects of this world are, nothing compares to being with Christ in heaven. The best day on Earth pales in comparison to being in heaven with Christ. You can stay, I want to leave to be with Him.

To die is gain.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Jesus become Israel to us.....we are His faithful of His tribe. Have a watch of this sermon titled 'The New Israel'

Part 1 of 6 - 10mins


part 2 of 6 www.youtube.com...
part 3 of 6 www.youtube.com...
part 4 of 6 www.youtube.com...
part 5 of 6 www.youtube.com...
part 6 of 6 www.youtube.com...

reply to post by NOTurTypical

Not every justified person will be raptured, the over-comers who are deemed worthy by the Lord and who are looking intently for His return will be going.

The great period of testing is going to divide up the world into 2 camps. All those in God's camp when Jesus returns (not the faked second coming by Satan first though!) will be called up with Him in mid-air. Thus all those justified will be ruptured. The the tribulation period hasn't come yet to determine of those that are alive who are justified

reply to post by NOTurTypical

Not every justified person will be raptured, the over-comers who are deemed worthy by the Lord and who are looking intently for His return will be going. The over-comers and the "wise" virgins.

This must be a philosophy peculiar to your cult.
In order to have a cult, you need a mechanism to make the cult members feel special and to be rewarded for their loyalty to the cult.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

Umm, the entire point of the "resurrection" is to resurrect the BODIES of those who are already dead in Christ.

So according to you, God is restrained to vacuuming up all the atoms you were made of and reassembling them, and can not do it any other way.