Proof that religion has warped your mind.

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by DrChuck
So....Wheres the proof?

The proof is in your choice. If you would prefer young minds to watch a heinous act of violence over watching what anyone could observe while passing a farm with horses mating in the field, then your mind is warped.

Ok, and if as an Atheist I prefer my child to watch the Passion? Does it prove that my mind was warped by religion? Or does it also indicate that I may have reservations against my child watching sexually related material?

How would you explain how South American countries that frown upon children watching violence while accepting their viewing of sexual material?

My argument is, it isn't religion but the societal norms that dictate our current values.

Originally posted by DrChuck

Originally posted by RicoMarston

Originally posted by DrChuck
So....Wheres the proof?

there is none. that's why the world's leaders love institutionalized religion so much; you can never prove it right, you can never prove it wrong. It's just stories in books at the end of the day, and yet so many humans are so easily whipped into a frothy fanatical frenzy over who's right and who's wrong. Religion vs. Religion. Faith Vs. Atheism. Know-it-alls vs. Agnostics. Will we ever stop fighting over the definition of "god" and the universe and life in general? Will we ever admit that we just don't know? Once we admit that we're alone in the dark, we'll realize that all we have is each other. As long as one group is viewed as the "chosen of god" and another group viewed as "infidels" we will never know peace on earth.

The OP offered proof of religion warping minds, but it does no such thing and offers a choice of exposing violence or sex to our children. The OP does not take into account of differing cultures around the world, by which most have no problems exposing sex to children but do have problems exposing violence.

The choice the OP offers is not based on religious beliefs/brainwashing but on cultural/societal differences.

The christian religion is based on that brutal violence. Without it, there would be no Christianity. What, you don't want young children watching the very moment Christianity was formed?

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by DrChuck

Originally posted by RicoMarston

Originally posted by DrChuck
So....Wheres the proof?

there is none. that's why the world's leaders love institutionalized religion so much; you can never prove it right, you can never prove it wrong. It's just stories in books at the end of the day, and yet so many humans are so easily whipped into a frothy fanatical frenzy over who's right and who's wrong. Religion vs. Religion. Faith Vs. Atheism. Know-it-alls vs. Agnostics. Will we ever stop fighting over the definition of "god" and the universe and life in general? Will we ever admit that we just don't know? Once we admit that we're alone in the dark, we'll realize that all we have is each other. As long as one group is viewed as the "chosen of god" and another group viewed as "infidels" we will never know peace on earth.

The OP offered proof of religion warping minds, but it does no such thing and offers a choice of exposing violence or sex to our children. The OP does not take into account of differing cultures around the world, by which most have no problems exposing sex to children but do have problems exposing violence.

The choice the OP offers is not based on religious beliefs/brainwashing but on cultural/societal differences.

The christian religion is based on that brutal violence. Without it, there would be no Christianity. What, you don't want young children watching the very moment Christianity was formed?

Yes, what if I don't? What difference does it make to your "proof"? How does my concerns of what my children view bear any type of proof that it was only inspired by Christianity?

Why do you choose to leave out other factors that may have help choose my preference?

Originally posted by DrChuck

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by DrChuck
So....Wheres the proof?

The proof is in your choice. If you would prefer young minds to watch a heinous act of violence over watching what anyone could observe while passing a farm with horses mating in the field, then your mind is warped.

Ok, and if as an Atheist I prefer my child to watch the Passion? Does it prove that my mind was warped by religion? Or does it also indicate that I may have reservations against my child watching sexually related material?

How would you explain how South American countries that frown upon children watching violence while accepting their viewing of sexual material?

My argument is, it isn't religion but the societal norms that dictate our current values.

This particular violence is THE beginning of Christianity. For many (who seem to be avoiding this thread) would say, "No contest, I want my children knowing about the LOVE of Jesus. And, tee-hee, sex is naughty."

Originally posted by DrChuck

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by DrChuck

Originally posted by RicoMarston

Originally posted by DrChuck
So....Wheres the proof?

there is none. that's why the world's leaders love institutionalized religion so much; you can never prove it right, you can never prove it wrong. It's just stories in books at the end of the day, and yet so many humans are so easily whipped into a frothy fanatical frenzy over who's right and who's wrong. Religion vs. Religion. Faith Vs. Atheism. Know-it-alls vs. Agnostics. Will we ever stop fighting over the definition of "god" and the universe and life in general? Will we ever admit that we just don't know? Once we admit that we're alone in the dark, we'll realize that all we have is each other. As long as one group is viewed as the "chosen of god" and another group viewed as "infidels" we will never know peace on earth.

The OP offered proof of religion warping minds, but it does no such thing and offers a choice of exposing violence or sex to our children. The OP does not take into account of differing cultures around the world, by which most have no problems exposing sex to children but do have problems exposing violence.

The choice the OP offers is not based on religious beliefs/brainwashing but on cultural/societal differences.

The christian religion is based on that brutal violence. Without it, there would be no Christianity. What, you don't want young children watching the very moment Christianity was formed?

Yes, what if I don't? What difference does it make to your "proof"? How does my concerns of what my children view bear any type of proof that it was only inspired by Christianity?

Why do you choose to leave out other factors that may have help choose my preference?

edit on 27-5-2012 by DrChuck because: (no reason given)

If you don't want your kids to watch such brutal, vicious, savage violence, and justify it in the name of Jesus, then you're not insane. Many would choose this over sex without a second thought.

reply to post by DrChuck

Originally posted by DrChuck
My argument is, it isn't religion but the societal norms that dictate our current values.

I agree. And many of those societal norms come from religion. Certainly the fact that sexuality is so contorted in our society, that as we grow, we learn that it's nasty, dirty and shameful.... and should be saved for the one person we LOVE... That's twisted and sick, IMO.



Hey, man, I'm not trying to start a fight with you. I was just using your previous post to make a point about how our society strings sex and violence together as though they're related. It wasn't an attack on you or your opinions. I get if someone offers me a "hamburger or a hot dog". However, if I'm offered a "hamburger or plate of broken glass", I'm going to comment about them being tied together. Sorry if I offended you. I was just joining in on the discussion.

Originally posted by jiggerj

This particular violence is THE beginning of Christianity. For many (who seem to be avoiding this thread) would say, "No contest, I want my children knowing about the LOVE of Jesus. And, tee-hee, sex is naughty."

There you go again with the speculations; "For many would say...." I'm not sure exactly how you came to know this demographic representation with such certainty. It is merely an assumption on your part to provide anti-Christian sentiment.

The logic of your argument is no different from Creationists who choose to ignore reproducible data, decades of research, and plethora of factors that research have taken into account before making a conclusion.

There are plenty of Christians around the world that would prefer their children be exposed to sex instead of violence, yet you choose to ignore that possibility to strengthen your position on the downfalls of Christianity.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
reply to post by DrChuck

 

Originally posted by DrChuck
My argument is, it isn't religion but the societal norms that dictate our current values.

I agree. And many of those societal norms come from religion. Certainly the fact that sexuality is so contorted in our society, that as we grow, we learn that it's nasty, dirty and shameful.... and should be saved for the one person we LOVE... That's twisted and sick, IMO.

Hey, man, I'm not trying to start a fight with you. I was just using your previous post to make a point about how our society strings sex and violence together as though they're related. It wasn't an attack on you or your opinions. I get if someone offers me a "hamburger or a hot dog". However, if I'm offered a "hamburger or plate of broken glass", I'm going to comment about them being tied together.

Sorry if I offended you. I was just joining in on the discussion.

edit on 5/27/2012 by Benevolent Heretic because: (no reason given)

No offense taken, I just thought you took my quote out of context. It happens here on ATS more often than one could tolerate.

Returning to the subject...As for your disgust with "sex" and "violence" being tied together, I can see how it can bother some people. But don't forget, some people see both subjects as inappropriate for children.

reply to post by jiggerj


That's because sex is bonding of the feminine and the masculine, after feminine had been cast down by Christianity so many years ago.

Knives and blades are signs of masculinity, of hunting and working, the traits of being a working man. In short, the Church approves of it as a natural part of life. But something that teaches emotion, and effeminate thinking...that's a no-no for boys.

As for girls, we think of them as fragile and innocent, which means we wouldn't want to expose them to such videos either. That is for when they are ready to marry...not for acts of sadistic philosophy.

Originally posted by DrChuck

Originally posted by jiggerj

This particular violence is THE beginning of Christianity. For many (who seem to be avoiding this thread) would say, "No contest, I want my children knowing about the LOVE of Jesus. And, tee-hee, sex is naughty."

There you go again with the speculations; "For many would say...." I'm not sure exactly how you came to know this demographic representation with such certainty. It is merely an assumption on your part to provide anti-Christian sentiment.

The logic of your argument is no different from Creationists who choose to ignore reproducible data, decades of research, and plethora of factors that research have taken into account before making a conclusion.

There are plenty of Christians around the world that would prefer their children be exposed to sex instead of violence, yet you choose to ignore that possibility to strengthen your position on the downfalls of Christianity.

Not really. I try to strengthen my position on the downfalls of all religions. But the point still stands, if you would cringe at the idea of young minds watching religious violence, doesn't that tell you that something is very VERY wrong with that religion???

reply to post by jiggerj


The movie tried to impress upon the audience the severe pain Jesus experienced on that cross.

Whether or not it actually happened, is another story entirely.

reply to post by jiggerj


That same thought crossed my mind at Easter, when I thought about how many families subject their children to violence , in the attempt to understand the story of Christ. The Passion is an example of this.

In my opinion it is a movie for older children who have a higher maturity level ,and can put the violence into proper context.

Mel would have done more for the message of Christianity by not focusing so much on the brutality in my opinion.

Did Christ suffer? I think he was brutalized and tortured, but to focus too much on the visuals, just seems like a playing field for those who get off on torture.

reply to post by jiggerj


The Christian religion is not based on violence. It's based on faith. It is based on a man's act which cannot be proven to have happened, but which people choose to believe in because it sets the stage for a being whom they can control, and it will in turn guide their lives in the right direction.

If they refuse to obey the being, then there will be hell on earth. Until that day of judgment, it's up to them to do exactly as the Bible says, because they don't know what to do with themselves otherwise.

That is the Christian premise. Not violence.

reply to post by jiggerj



Edit,misunderstood what you were implying.

Originally posted by jiggerj

If you don't want your kids to watch such brutal, vicious, savage violence, and justify it in the name of Jesus, then you're not insane. Many would choose this over sex without a second thought.

Quite an pretentious attitude; to exonerate someone from insanity because they agree with you, don't you think?
And if they didn't take your position, they would be insane correct?

I apologize if I am without tact, but I am a seeker of truth and not all truths are ideal to our emotions and logic. You offered proof, a step towards truth, but was immensely misleading. It was nothing more than an assumption based on what some American Christians would choose to conclusively deride Christianity.

I have no problem with Anti-Christian sentiment, my issue was the basis of your argument. It holds no ground and offers no purpose other than endorsing an agenda.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


I believe that is the major issue with "christians" honestly...

"Its up to them to do exactly what the bible says"


The bible "says" a lot of things... Not all of which are based on love and respect....

Read the entire bible as "Gods word" and you will be led astray...

Read the words of Jesus... and you will begin to understand God through his son

Originally posted by jiggerj

Not really. I try to strengthen my position on the downfalls of all religions. But the point still stands, if you would cringe at the idea of young minds watching religious violence, doesn't that tell you that something is very VERY wrong with that religion.

Why should the violence only be limited to religious violence? What was your motive when you singled out religious violence as opposed to Star Wars violence, or 300 violence?

My cringing at an idea of children watching religious violence does NOT implicate something is wrong with that religion. How do you come up with this rationale? My opinion is not an universally accepted moral doctrine. Maybe you think yours is, but I certainly do not.

Originally posted by WhisperingWinds
reply to post by jiggerj

 

That same thought crossed my mind at Easter, when I thought about how many families subject their children to violence , in the attempt to understand the story of Christ. The Passion is an example of this.

In my opinion it is a movie for older children who have a higher maturity level ,and can put the violence into proper context.

Mel would have done more for the message of Christianity by not focusing so much on the brutality in my opinion.

Did Christ suffer? I think he was brutalized and tortured, but to focus too much on the visuals, just seems like a playing field for those who get off on torture.

edit on 27-5-2012 by WhisperingWinds because: (no reason given)

Be honest now, how can such violence have a 'proper context' in what is deemed to be a religion of love? If any part of a religion needs to be withheld from young minds then, surely, one must question the validity of every part of that religion. If we can't say to our children, "God loves puppies and kittens and you," and have that be the total definition of god, then there's something utterly sick about that religion. If we have to add, "God loves puppies and kittens and you, and he was brutally beaten to keep you from burning in hell," well, that's just wrong.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by jiggerj

 

The Christian religion is not based on violence. It's based on faith.

Yeah, I didn't mean 'based'. I meant that violence was the rock upon which the church was built.

reply to post by jiggerj

Be honest now, how can such violence have a 'proper context' in what is deemed to be a religion of love? If any part of a religion needs to be withheld from young minds then, surely, one must question the validity of every part of that religion. If we can't say to our children, "God loves puppies and kittens and you," and have that be the total definition of god, then there's something utterly sick about that religion. If we have to add, "God loves puppies and kittens and you, and he was brutally beaten to keep you from burning in hell," well, that's just wrong.

It has proper context in the extent that it wasn't Christians who did the violence. What don't you get about that?

Christ taught love, forgiveness, as well as exposing hypocrisy and deception in some of the upper members of Judaism.

He did nothing wrong, but those who feared his truth, and the amount of influence he had over the many who followed him, are the ones who initiated the violence.

There are good people who suffer the same fate for trying to do the right thing , by evil people, who do not want to be exposed.

Why blame Christianity for the actions taken against it?