An apology to the masons.

Click here for more information.

reply to post by ludwigvonmises003


??? where did that come from? Lol…slow down on the mountain dew bro!

reply to post by Erbal


*** "I'm trying to get past the trolling and hear from Masons themselves as to what exactly is taught by the fraternity, or even just to hear they are not willing or not permitted to actually answer that question without dancing around and lawyering me to death" ***

*** "What, explicitly, is not self-education in regards to Freemasonry, beyond the modes of recognition, symbols, and the rituals/oaths?" ***

Honesty, from my personal experiences, the fore mentioned subjects are just about all that is taught outright, the basic meaning of various symbols and their origins, the grips and words per degree, what your oaths are as a brother Mason and the basic origins of the lodge, what the working tools are, what they stand for and how to incorporate them into your life. Then the rest is left up to you, which is seemingly endless. Its not really anything you cant find out on the internet and if you aren’t really a history buff, it could be pretty boring to some. The “deeper meaning” to each symbol can mean different things to different people depending on their interpretations.

For example:

One person may take the square and compass as strictly tools for building stuff, while others (once they understand the meaning behind each tool individually), seeing them together in certain forms, or depending on how they are laid out, tells a story or provides different levels of information or identification. Similar to that of an Egyptian hieroglyph.

The square and compass together, to me are a reminder of my oath, reminding me to live a virtuous life (the square) keeping my passions under control (the compass) and always trusting and believing in the order of God’s plan (the G in the middle).

Initially learning the degrees in my opinion, was similar to learning the lines to a play in theater arts. At first it was a little overwhelming, and I didn’t really see the fuss behind it all, but I was looking at it in a very 2D sort of way.

Bottom line- "Whats the benefit to joining?" the simplest answer I can give IS self enlightenment, learning how to live your life better and learning to assist others in doing the same. No hidden message, and no layering. If you join expecting to be given a book of secrets, or to gain advantage by favor, you will be disappointed.

Hope this helps...

reply to post by JBpage76


true enlightenment is in buddhism or gnostic christians or sufi muslims not masonry.

reply to post by ludwigvonmises003


Self-enlightenment can be gained in anything an individual finds educational and is willing to learn from, from the bible to sponge bob. Everything has something that can be learned from, good or bad What you do with that opportunity or knowledge is up to you.

For me, the lodge has been instrumental in my search, so on that I disagree with you.

reply to post by ludwigvonmises003


Masonry is not a religion and doesn't claim to be. It goes along with the three you mentioned. It also never claims to be true enlightenment. It's just information about how to live a good life.

reply to post by JBpage76


Considering that there are lodges like P2 embedded ,masonry has no crediblity nor enlightenment.

Originally posted by ludwigvonmises003
reply to post by JBpage76

 

Considering that there are lodges like P2 embedded ,masonry has no crediblity nor enlightenment.

I guess so. Since there was a man who committed murder, I suppose all men are murderers. Or is that a shining example of over generalization?

reply to post by network dude


over generalization?Masonry is corrupt.So no thanks.I will pass.

reply to post by network dude


Yeah, I think this guy is just trying to muddy the waters of an able discussion.

Originally posted by ludwigvonmises003


true enlightenment is in buddhism or gnostic christians or sufi muslims not masonry.

Masonry draws upon the wisdom of all the above, as well as other traditions.

reply to post by JBpage76


This was a very informative reply.

Thanks for your input.

reply to post by JBpage76


I didn't get a chance to say, welcome brother.

Please, wipe the blood from the sacrifice off your shoes before you come in.

reply to post by protocolsoflove

Symbols don't have to belong to anyone particular. Its symbolism is well explained.

reply to post by ludwigvonmises003

You want to harm innocent people over paranoia, but we are the psychos? Right.

reply to post by ludwigvonmises003

P2 operated for years without a charter authorizing them to meet. They have no credibility, but they are in no way indicative if all Masonry. Hell the Grand Orient of Italy, who wasn't recognized by anyone at the time, withdrew their charter due to corrupt activities but they continued to operate.

The problem is that the term "Freemasonry" isn't copyrighted so assholes like them are allowed to drag our reputation down and all we can do is denounce them.

reply to post by KSigMason


When lodges clean house are they allowed back in?

Originally posted by disgustingfatbody


When lodges clean house are they allowed back in?

Depends on the circumstances. Not P2....they completely abandoned Freemasonry, and adopted new rituals and teachings of their own. Those who were members of P2, and wanted to remain Masons, left the P2 lodge.

A good article on that group can be readd here:

en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by Masonic Light


So what is P2? The mob?

I get the impression that this is just another form of gang albeit more organized.

No offense meant.

reply to post by disgustingfatbody

From my experience, if the Lodge is doing the "cleaning" internally the guilty parties could be expelled for good or just suspended. If the Grand Lodge gets involved, depending on the severity od the events, the Lodge could lose it's charter (like P2), the guilty members could be expelled/suspended, and the other members would have to change Lodges...or demit/withdraw. If your Lodge lost it's charter and you still operated as such all members would be expelled.

That is my basic understanding. The situation would determine the required and appropriate response.

reply to post by disgustingfatbody

Not sure if they were mobsters, but they were corrupr bastards.