Where is the gospel of jesus?

Originally posted by TKDRL
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

I hope you are right. The more I pay attention to people around me, the more I feel like an alien....

For example this weekend, memorial day weekend. I hear many people that are supposedly against war, talking up the support the troops hype..... How can you be against war, and at the same time support those that sell their souls for a mere pittance, and do the bidding of the bloodhungry?

It's like saying you are against animal abuse, but support the cock owners in the cockfight rings. It is like being against child abuse, but support the people that traffic children for sex. Etc etc, makes zero sense to me.

I try my hardest to love everyone as my brother/sister, but I still have not found the secret of loving the people that exploit the weak. Try as I may, I cannot relate to people like this. I wish I knew the secret, I cannot even forgive myself some of the things I have done.

You just revealed the secret. Empathy requires love. Love demands repentance. Not demands in the sense of demanding. Love makes us require it of ourselves. The fact that you see the sin in yourself points to the fact you feel for others in the same boat. This is the point the Bible resounds like a clanging cymbal. We are all equally under the curse of sin and death. Love keeps no record of wrongs for those who place themselves in the arms of love. God is love. You see it. You have not taken the name in vain. Sackcloth and ashes reveals it.

Originally posted by EnochWasRight

The gift and station of the scribe was a position of honor. Likely, there was a scribe somewhere who realized the significance of who Jesus was.

scribes

I will side with historical context and tradition to see that it is more probable that a scribe recorded the history that was obvious to the trained eye. The format of the entire Bible follows the rules of hermetically sealing scripture. Hillel's Seven Rules of rightly dividing truth verify.

You draw a very long bow there my friend.

You can be the most studious scribe in the world but when you are describing events which have been orally handed down through 4, 8 or even 15 generations prior to being written they can only be relied upon as a general inference of what may have happened.

You seem to believe that every person that orally passed on the eyewitness testimony must have remembered every single detail with some sort of photographic memory and themselves must have been equally pure as Jesus would have been. But you are dealing with imperfect men who forget details, make up other things and have various motivations and agendas as do we all.

The scriptures cannot be relied upon in any way shape or form as eyewitness testimony because they are not.

As for your 7 rules, I read them and do not see at all how they relate to the accuracy of the New Testament.

reply to post by mikesk8s247


Angel witness? AKA an Alien? Oh! Got it!

Originally posted by 1littlewolf

Originally posted by EnochWasRight

The gift and station of the scribe was a position of honor. Likely, there was a scribe somewhere who realized the significance of who Jesus was.

scribes

I will side with historical context and tradition to see that it is more probable that a scribe recorded the history that was obvious to the trained eye. The format of the entire Bible follows the rules of hermetically sealing scripture. Hillel's Seven Rules of rightly dividing truth verify.

You draw a very long bow there my friend.

You can be the most studious scribe in the world but when you are describing events which have been orally handed down through 4, 8 or even 15 generations prior to being written they can only be relied upon as a general inference of what may have happened.

You seem to believe that every person that orally passed on the eyewitness testimony must have remembered every single detail with some sort of photographic memory and themselves must have been equally pure as Jesus would have been. But you are dealing with imperfect men who forget details, make up other things and have various motivations and agendas as do we all.

The scriptures cannot be relied upon in any way shape or form as eyewitness testimony because they are not.

As for your 7 rules, I read them and do not see at all how they relate to the accuracy of the New Testament.

edit on 26/5/2012 by 1littlewolf because: (no reason given)

These people were not cave men around a fire. This was Israel, Egypt and Rome. The method of historical record keeping and recording of scripture was perfected here. The entire language systems of the modern world were derived from literate men and women of the temple tradition. Read the article. Have you seen the movie idiocracy? It's called information entropy. It happens in documents and it happens with people over time. Cycles of intelligence rise and fall. This was the peak of such skills as were needed for the transmission of important events. Truth is Hermetically sealed by Hillel's Seven Rules. Verification comes in the form of context to the larger document. Symbol is the key to unlocking what is said, not the words on the page. This has always been true with scripture. It cannot be tainted once sealed in symbol.

These points aside, belief in God is belief He can manage his WORD. Any other mindset denies the authority on the subject. There's no point in arguing the context since the Bible produces the history it reveals. Evidence is in the news and in our textbooks.

reply to post by TKDRL


There's more to every story than one perspective can relate. My nephew shot someone at age 14. He went to adult prison. Later, he killed himself in the cell rather than face the torment of the adult population. None of this story has a good message until we see the end of the story unfold. The mother became a youth advocate. Laws will likely be passed to reform a broken system because of the tragedy and others like it. We never know the larger picture until we can step back and see the reason it happened.

Newton said that an object at rest will stay at rest until moved by an unbalanced force. God knows why this is the way it must be. We can only guess. Good always follows suffering.



Isaiah 55

8 “For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways,”
declares the Lord.
9 “As the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways
and my thoughts than your thoughts.
10 As the rain and the snow
come down from heaven,
and do not return to it
without watering the earth
and making it bud and flourish,
so that it yields seed for the sower and bread for the eater,
11 so is my word that goes out from my mouth:
It will not return to me empty,
but will accomplish what I desire
and achieve the purpose for which I sent it.

reply to post by TKDRL


More of a doer. Writing requires a certain amount of vanity and reflection. He had time for neither since his mission was laid out already. I think He did what he wanted until 30, and then did what He was asked. His gospel is the words in red.

Originally posted by 1littlewolf

Originally posted by EnochWasRight

The gift and station of the scribe was a position of honor. Likely, there was a scribe somewhere who realized the significance of who Jesus was.

scribes

I will side with historical context and tradition to see that it is more probable that a scribe recorded the history that was obvious to the trained eye. The format of the entire Bible follows the rules of hermetically sealing scripture. Hillel's Seven Rules of rightly dividing truth verify.

As for your 7 rules, I read them and do not see at all how they relate to the accuracy of the New Testament.

That is because Enoch is on a level above most of us

Originally posted by EnochWasRight

These people were not cave men around a fire. This was Israel, Egypt and Rome. The method of historical record keeping and recording of scripture was perfected here. The entire language systems of the modern world were derived from literate men and women of the temple tradition. Read the article. Have you seen the movie idiocracy? It's called information entropy. It happens in documents and it happens with people over time. Cycles of intelligence rise and fall. This was the peak of such skills as were needed for the transmission of important events. Truth is Hermetically sealed by Hillel's Seven Rules. Verification comes in the form of context to the larger document. Symbol is the key to unlocking what is said, not the words on the page. This has always been true with scripture. It cannot be tainted once sealed in symbol.

With the greatest respect, if a story is passed down orally for 1 or more centuries before it is copied down (even when it is claimed to be 'eyewitness testimony'), then there is nobody on this Earth you will convince except yourself that this is in anyway shape or form 'accurate record keeping'. You also have to keep in mind the early Christian Church wasn't some well organised temple, it was an underground society run in peoples basements

Ever heard of the game Chinese Whispers?

Also I'm yet to be shown where in your 7 rules there is anything regarding the accurate transmission of stories through word of mouth. As for Israel, Egypt and Rome, 2 out of 3 didn't believe in Jesus anyway and it is widely believed that Constantine and his predecessor's unflinching mandate that everyone be Christian was one of the main reasons Rome eventually failed.

These points aside, belief in God is belief He can manage his WORD. Any other mindset denies the authority on the subject.

You mean your authority....? I'm quite sure God can manage his word. It's man I have issues with.

There's no point in arguing the context since the Bible produces the history it reveals. Evidence is in the news and in our textbooks.

What of all the other reliegions and their Holy Scriptures? Essentially after all your book learning and seven golden rules and Hebrew translations you still eventually have to fall back on saying I'm right about the Bible cos the Bible says I am.

Nice.

The bible is the inspired word of God, Christ was God hence he was the inspiration for all the bible.
Every written word.
Its really simple but to difficult for many....its called faith.

reply to post by TKDRL


"Gospel" means "Good News". The "good news" of Jesus is all over the NT. In fact, the entire NT is about Jesus and His good news. The OT as well speaks of the good news of the Messiah. If you ask where are the letters/epistles of Jesus there are 7 of them in chapters 2-3 of Revelation.

I have wondered this myself.

Similar thread

It would be a good idea for Jesus to write it all down in person and make it indisputable.

The reason why there is no gospel of Jesus Is because he was made up my man. There is no evidence he even existed in the first place. All claims of Jesus are derived from hearsay accounts. Look at the time these gospels were written a good 70 to 90 years after his supposed death. Even if he did exist there is no way what he said could have been written exactly as he said it.

Because the religious mind relies on belief and faith, the religious person can inherit a dependence on any information that supports a belief and that includes fraudulent stories, rumors, unreliable data, and fictions, without the need to check sources, or to investigate the reliability of the information.

What appears most revealing of all, comes not from what people later wrote about Jesus but what people did not write about him. Consider that not a single historian, philosopher, scribe or follower who lived before or during the time of Jesus ever mentions him. Isn't this strange seeing how someone was healing people bringing the dead back to life yet no one bothered to mention him.

Originally posted by jhill76

Originally posted by putnamcrab
reply to post by jhill76

 

Really? that's why we are still in the dark about the truth... that statement is new to the phenome of people waking up to the truth, questioning the lies they continue to shove down our throats like we don't know any better...

What happened to the book judas or mary magdellen?

This is why many turn to the source and develop a direct relationship with him, and not an indirect one through a pastor.

Both the Gospels of Judas and Mary m. exist and have been obtainable for quite sometime they are part of the Gnostic Gospels the stuff they left out of the collected works of many authors called the Bible.

The secret book of John is the cornerstone in what Christianity should have been
but they kept it hidden. Despite what many think good/God/light does not hide for any reason.
That cloaking a function of Evil/Devil/Darkness.

reply to post by buster2010


Is Alexander the Great an invention of man? The first written account of him doesnt appear until 400 years after his death.

reply to post by TKDRL


Well it depends on what you believe about Jesus. If Jesus was God, as in actually part of the trinity as many Christians believe, then yes he should have been able to read as he would have omniscient. However if Jesus was just an ordinary human being with a few pieces of sound moral advice then it makes sense that he was just an illiterate carpenter. One issue is that Jesus quotes the scripture an awful lot, one might assume that he was familiar with the Torah being recited to him but it's still a bit odd.

The Gospels were all written in Greek decades and decades after Christ supposedly lived, plenty of time for his story to be blown out of proportion and have all sorts of supernatural exaggerations added. Others suggest that Jesus never existed at all and that the Gospel of Mark was written as a purposeful work of fiction borrowing from Saul of Tarsus teachings about a heavenly Christ.

reply to post by putnamcrab


Ummm no, John the Apostle...

finally! some one who can see the truth!!! s&f for you!
the roman empire was falling with all kinds of 'religions' existing at the same time.
palastine was becoming a big thorn in the side of rome with all their revolts,and the territories of rome were starting to 'wake up' as well.
so constantine and his crew got crafty and basically 'invented' a new religion based on a combination of mithraism,nordic beliefs,a bit of judeaism,along with messianic techings(jesus being the most popular messiah,he led the pack!---there have been other messiahs,simon bar kotchba was considered a messiah by his followers)
he only 'allowed' the 4 gospels in the bible we read today,and not allowing the other gospels(mary,judas,thomas etc...) because they went agaist what constantine was trying to accomplish---a united rome,under his rule.
there weren't any 'churches' in jesus time,just the temple where only the high priest was only allowed to enter once a year.not for public mass! even jesus said he would teach in the grove! churches come from roman temples dedicated to some god/goddess wher people would come to give offerings.
as for an actual 'gospel of jesus',ther probably is one hidden away in tha vatican.BUT YOU CANNOT SEE IT!!!
its funny,there was a character around the same time as jesus known as honi the circle drawer.
he was also considered a 'messiah' as well. and yes there is one passage in the bible that mentions him.
there seems to be more historical evidence of him than jesus! but if you ask a christian about him,they never heard of him!
same as the term 'lucifer' and christians callin it satan. this is so incorresct!!! lucifer is only mentioned once in the bible in Isiah!!! and its a refference to venus and Nebuchadnezzar and the fall of babylon!
i could go on all day about inconsistencies in the 'good book'!!!
heres another one --- when paul was called back to jerusalem to answer to james for his questionabe teachings,the crowd wanted to stone him to death for blasphemy.
but,a 'cohort of roman soldiers removed him from the mob. why a whole cohort???

A cohort was originally one of the ten divisions of a legion in the Roman army, containing from 300 to 600 men.

could he be a roman 'plant' to infiltrate the jews? plausable,no?
any way,the truth is out there if you dig deep enough,and keep an open mind!

Honi_HaM'agel Honi HaM'agel Honi HaM'agel (חוני המעגל Khoni, or Choni, HaMe'agel , Hebrew for Honi the Circle-drawer ) ( First century BCE) was a Jewish scholar prior to the age of the Tannaim, the scholars from whose teachings the Mishnah (the first part of the Talmud) was derived. During the first century BCE, a variety of religious movements and splinter groups developed amongst the Jews in Judea. A number of individuals claimed to be miracle workers in the tradition of Elijah and Elisha, the ancient Jewish prophets.

hope this helps!
peace

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by buster2010

 

Is Alexander the Great an invention of man? The first written account of him doesnt appear until 400 years after his death.

Did you forget Alexander had a son Alexander IV of Macedon.

Also you are wrong about written accounts about him.

Callisthenes, Ptolemy Lagides, Nearchus, Aristobulus of Cassandreia. Onesicritus all of these people served with Alexander and wrote about him.

Originally posted by 1littlewolf

Originally posted by EnochWasRight

These people were not cave men around a fire. This was Israel, Egypt and Rome. The method of historical record keeping and recording of scripture was perfected here. The entire language systems of the modern world were derived from literate men and women of the temple tradition. Read the article. Have you seen the movie idiocracy? It's called information entropy. It happens in documents and it happens with people over time. Cycles of intelligence rise and fall. This was the peak of such skills as were needed for the transmission of important events. Truth is Hermetically sealed by Hillel's Seven Rules. Verification comes in the form of context to the larger document. Symbol is the key to unlocking what is said, not the words on the page. This has always been true with scripture. It cannot be tainted once sealed in symbol.

With the greatest respect, if a story is passed down orally for 1 or more centuries before it is copied down (even when it is claimed to be 'eyewitness testimony'), then there is nobody on this Earth you will convince except yourself that this is in anyway shape or form 'accurate record keeping'. You also have to keep in mind the early Christian Church wasn't some well organised temple, it was an underground society run in peoples basements

Ever heard of the game Chinese Whispers?

Also I'm yet to be shown where in your 7 rules there is anything regarding the accurate transmission of stories through word of mouth. As for Israel, Egypt and Rome, 2 out of 3 didn't believe in Jesus anyway and it is widely believed that Constantine and his predecessor's unflinching mandate that everyone be Christian was one of the main reasons Rome eventually failed.

These points aside, belief in God is belief He can manage his WORD. Any other mindset denies the authority on the subject.

You mean your authority....? I'm quite sure God can manage his word. It's man I have issues with.

There's no point in arguing the context since the Bible produces the history it reveals. Evidence is in the news and in our textbooks.

What of all the other reliegions and their Holy Scriptures? Essentially after all your book learning and seven golden rules and Hebrew translations you still eventually have to fall back on saying I'm right about the Bible cos the Bible says I am.

Nice.

edit on 27/5/2012 by 1littlewolf because: (no reason given)

It has nothing to do with me. God can manage them all (Words and Men). As for the Word, that's impenetrability.