Ancient Aliens Satans Counterfiets, page 23

Originally posted by cenpuppie
reply to post by randyvs

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Uh, i'm just going to step in a bit here and uh.. you say this

Jesus Christ died for you. That you might have life. Ignore that and you're just wrong

Negative. He was dead for what.. 3 days? And was raised and now sits at the right hand of God. How is that a sacrifice? Besides, if anyone can be born unto a virgin, then i'd like to know what kind of magic is at play. Yup, magic.

Jesus was so fantastic and yet no other documentation about him, no statues, no writings, nothing. The church got it's love after the fact thou! When no one can say yea.. i saw that.

Not quite sure if you understand what he went through or have just never thought about it? The man was beaten, humiliated, SCOURGED (look up what scourging is), and then CRUCIFIED. If the gospel is correct, he went to this fate knowingly. For YOU.

I won't even bother with your second paragraph. The historicity of Jesus of Nazareth is practically indisputable and only a fool would argue otherwise.

This thread has gotten WAY off topic however. This is not about the validity of Christ.It is about how the abduction/contactee phenomenon closely mirrors the things reported within demonic infestation cases almost to a T. This fact remains to anyone who is honest enough to look into it.

reply to post by DeadSeraph

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And where is the proof then? It's circumstantial at best. And don't try to turn it into a "he died for me thing". That's what you believe. When we have historical documents, clay tablets, something besides what's written in the bible to back it up, it's a matter of faith. Besides he can't kill us all, remember that covenant!

And this goes to the heart of this topic. Op is claiming that ufos are manifestations of angels and demons, etc etc. True if you willing to look at it from a christian perspective i watched a few youtube videos on that.

If you don't believe me then your blind or the devil has gotten you! Just as bad as those that make you declare a side so they can start shootin their guns.

The Vatican has actually exorcisms on record, that creeps me out! . Just because i don't believe in what you say, i'm not going to brush you off, i can always be wrong. . And those Ethiopians claim to have the ark too. Graham Hancock looked into that. That's simply amazing.

But going to the ends the the OP is making? Nah.. there isn't even a consensus on what is it much less who. UFO's are still ufos, they are unidentified so far.

reply to post by cenpuppie

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You can't say negative unless you know and guess what ? You don't.

Edit: And also, when you have epics like the Mahabharata floating around and considering Hinduism is an actual religion, how am i going to believe you over them?

I'm not asking you to believe me. I'm telling you, if you don't believe Christ, you're wrong. As my Lil Sista would say,
" booyah ! ".

And where is the proof then? It's circumstantial at best. And don't try to turn it into a "he died for me thing". That's what you believe. When we have historical documents, clay tablets, something besides what's written in the bible to back it up, it's a matter of faith. Besides he can't kill us all, remember that covenant!

It isn't about proof. It's about common sense really. And I highly doubt that if you had your Clay tabs or something else, as you say, that it would then be good enough for you. Because nothing can help you until you realize you need help. You don't see that now and you may never, because very sadly for you, it's up to you. But you would be so much better off if it weren't. So carry on ever so blind to the facts. It is your life.

Originally posted by cenpuppie
reply to post by DeadSeraph

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And where is the proof then? It's circumstantial at best. And don't try to turn it into a "he died for me thing". That's what you believe. When we have historical documents, clay tablets, something besides what's written in the bible to back it up, it's a matter of faith. Besides he can't kill us all, remember that covenant!

And this goes to the heart of this topic. Op is claiming that ufos are manifestations of angels and demons, etc etc. True if you willing to look at it from a christian perspective i watched a few youtube videos on that.

If you don't believe me then your blind or the devil has gotten you! Just as bad as those that make you declare a side so they can start shootin their guns.

The Vatican has actually exorcisms on record, that creeps me out! . Just because i don't believe in what you say, i'm not going to brush you off, i can always be wrong. . And those Ethiopians claim to have the ark too. Graham Hancock looked into that. That's simply amazing.

But going to the ends the the OP is making? Nah.. there isn't even a consensus on what is it much less who. UFO's are still ufos, they are unidentified so far.

edit on 30-6-2012 by cenpuppie because: (no reason given)

Where is the proof to what? The historicity of Jesus of Nazareth, or demons? You do realize evil spirits aren't exclusive to Christianity and there are well documented paranormal events? I'll need more clarification on your first point before I can answer it concisely.

To address your second point (and third and fourth, kind of?) I never said the devil has you if you don't see things my way. I'm only saying there are avenues of research you can take, and this conclusion isn't as crazy as you think.

edit: The Vatican has many exorcisms on record, I am sure. None of them are of consequence and are merely eye witness testimony (much like the UFO phenomenon, they cannot be proven scientifically for what they are). What changes a persons perspective is seeing one for yourself. I don't expect you to believe this, and quite frankly I don't care.

Dig deeper, be honest, and look at the data. It doesn't add up.

reply to post by DeadSeraph

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I won't even bother with your second paragraph. The historicity of Jesus of Nazareth is practically indisputable and only a fool would argue otherwise.

I got yer back Seraph

reply to post by DeadSeraph

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I do realize that demons are well documented in many. many religions. But, they're Earth bound demons, no?

Are you asserting that anything that may try to communicate to us from elsewhere, besides the all already confirmed demons, are all demons too?

Is there nothing else but good and evil, GOD and SATAN? Is there no room for twain?

reply to post by windword

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Is there nothing else but good and evil, GOD and SATAN? Is there no room for twain?

Just want to say I like your question. I'll wait for the answer to that one myself. Seraph ?

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by DeadSeraph

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I do realize that demons are well documented in many. many religions. But, they're Earth bound demons, no?

Are you asserting that anything that may try to communicate to us from elsewhere, besides the all already confirmed demons, are all demons too?

Is there nothing else but good and evil, GOD and SATAN? Is there no room for twain?

edit on 30-6-2012 by windword because: spelling & grammer

Even if we take evil spirits at face value (which is already a ridiculous idea to science) what does their origin amount to? Lies. We see the same thing within the abduction phenomenon (lies in regards to where these entities come from) as we do within the paranormal (lies).

How can you trust an evil deceiving spirit when it tells you it is from Andromeda when it's entire purpose in speaking to you is to deceive you in the first place?

reply to post by randyvs

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Quite right.
And the person who blew the lid off of Pandora's box?
Marvel Whiteside Parsons, aka Jack Parsons.
www....-------------------------/library/bio/mad-science/jack-parsons/

With much help from his BFF, Aleister Crowley.



Coincidence?
I think not.

I have no idea why the link is not working. After www is rotten (dot) com (back slash) library (back slash) bio (back slash) mad-science (back slash) jack-parsons
Why would this site be prohibited on ATS???
I guess we'll find out when this post gets deleted......

reply to post by randyvs

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Amusing...No, I refuse to see Aliens as Demons, because with all your bravado I know better. I have not covered my ears, I simply do not see eye to eye. Your arrogance is the base of your pride, and pride goeth before a fall. Don't ever forget your proverbs you bible-thumpers. Your arrogance is rooted in the fact, that you can't even ask yourselves what if you were the ones that were wrong. Yet, your pride doesn't let you...I have more things to talk and learn about than arguing semantics.... I don't need your Savior, because I can swim myself, thank you.

We will find out soon enough, I don't think you will be happy though..

Originally posted by DeadSeraph

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by DeadSeraph

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I do realize that demons are well documented in many. many religions. But, they're Earth bound demons, no?

Are you asserting that anything that may try to communicate to us from elsewhere, besides the already confirmed demons, are all demons too?

Is there nothing else but good and evil, GOD and SATAN? Is there no room for twain?

edit on 30-6-2012 by windword because: spelling & grammer

Even if we take evil spirits at face value (which is already a ridiculous idea to science) what does their origin amount to? Lies.

What? What is "face value"? Are you saying that demons are born from lies and not created by god? I thought you guys said that demons were fallen angels.

If demons are fallen angels, then they were created in divinity. No?

We see the same thing within the abduction phenomenon (lies in regards to where these entities come from) as we do within the paranormal (lies).

What same thing are you talking about? Your assumption takes some wild leaps and bounds there.

Do you think all paranormal activity is evil? Do you believe that it is god's will for us to remain trapped inside our bodies and never supposed communicate to via telepathy, for example? Why did god bestow humans with paranormal gifts of awareness then?

How can you trust an evil deceiving spirit when it tells you it is from Andromeda when it's entire purpose in speaking to you is to deceive you in the first place?

Again, you coming from an assumption that all paranormal activity is evil and has an evil purpose.

What if that "spirit" leads one to inspiration in their own life, and helps one to overcome their fears, to see their life in a better light? What if that spirit teaches an individual ways to access their inner light? What if that person feels a sense of freedom and belonging to a greater whole afterwards?

That is what happened to me. I've had many visitations from loving and powerful beings that weren't of this earth.

What if these beings come and minister to those who are lost, trapped and overwhelmed, giving them insight outside of their small little box of self defeat?

I'll ask you the question again

"Is there nothing else but good and evil, GOD and SATAN? Is there no room for twain?"

Is you world as simple as black and white, good and evil. Do you follow the doctrine of duality, that god has an equal enemy that is the opposite of pure good? If so, then where do you fall in this conundrum?

My experiences advise me differently. I wouldn't trade the wonderful communion that I have had in the spirit world, from these visitors, for all the real estate in heaven!

And therefore as a stranger give it welcome.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

Shakespeare

reply to post by windword

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What? What is "face value"? Are you saying that demons are born from lies and not created by god? I thought you guys said that demons were fallen angels. If demons are fallen angels, then they were created in divinity. No?

Satan is called the author of lies, the deceiver, etc. He and his cohorts are not exactly known for telling the truth. What I mean, specifically, is that during exorcisms, spirits will lie about their identity, who/what they are, etc etc. They will lie, lie, and then lie some more, and will only tell the truth when FORCED to (and when they do, it is actually painful for them to do so). I'm not really concerned if you think exorcism's, evil spirits, etc are real. I have seen them first hand, and I am convinced. As for their origin, that depends on who you ask. The general consensus is that they are fallen angels, but within this group there are other sub-groups such as "The Watchers" from the book of Enoch, or the Nephilim. Some even believe the spirits of the Nephilim live on after their earthly bodies perished, and act as a sort of lesser demonic entity. There are a number of theories here, from a number of religions. Take your pick.

What same thing are you talking about? Your assumption takes some wild leaps and bounds there. Do you think all paranormal activity is evil? Do you believe that it is god's will for us to remain trapped inside our bodies and never supposed communicate to via telepathy, for example? Why did god bestow humans with paranormal gifts of awareness then?

How is it "wild leaps and bounds" to expose the amount of deception present in both sets of phenomenon? How many contactee predictions have come and gone without validation? How many entities have lied, deceived, and contradicted themselves about who they are, what their agenda is, and where they come from? As for whether or not I think all paranormal activity is evil, that would depend on what you define as "paranormal". As for telepathy, well I have yet to meet telepathic people. Certainly people are capable of some pretty extraordinary things, and I wouldn't say all of it is Satanic (I would even call some of them gifts). The important thing here is (in my opinion) to approach such things with a spirit of discernment, and to question everything and every spirit in the authority of Jesus Christ.

Again, you coming from an assumption that all paranormal activity is evil and has an evil purpose. What if that "spirit" leads one to inspiration in their own life, and helps one to overcome their fears, to see their life in a better light? What if that spirit teaches an individual ways to access their inner light? What if that person feels a sense of freedom and belonging to a greater whole afterwards? That is what happened to me. I've had many visitations from loving and powerful beings that weren't of this earth. What if these beings come and minister to those who are lost, trapped and overwhelmed, giving them insight outside of their small little box of self defeat? I'll ask you the question again "Is there nothing else but good and evil, GOD and SATAN? Is there no room for twain?" Is you world as simple as black and white, good and evil. Do you follow the doctrine of duality, that god has an equal enemy that is the opposite of pure good? If so, then where do you fall in this conundrum? My experiences advise me differently. I wouldn't trade the wonderful communion that I have had in the spirit world, from these visitors, for all the real estate in heaven!

If I believe in Demons, I must also believe in Angels. Again, I would be for testing such spirits. You may find my view "black and white" and narrow minded, and I'm ok with that.

I do not believe that Satan is equal to God at all.

I'm happy to hear your communion has helped you. Mine has been equally helpful in my own life.

Originally posted by VeritasAequitas
reply to post by randyvs

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.... I don't need your Savior, because I can swim myself, thank you.

That's what THEY said:

ATHEIST George Rodonaia - Three Days in a Morgue

"George Rodonaia underwent one of the most extended cases of a near-death experience ever recorded. Dr. Rodonaia was an avowed atheist who was killed by the KGB, pronounced dead, taken to the morgue for three days and returned to life during his own autopsy. Dr. Rodonaia was a psychiatric researcher who worked for the KGB and later became a dissident.

He was a scientist trained in historical materialism and did not believe in God. Pronounced dead immediately after he was hit by a car in 1976, he was left for three days in the morgue. He did not "return to life" until a doctor began to make an incision in his abdomen as part of an autopsy procedure. LINK

ATHEIST PROFESSOR IN HELL - Howard Storm



A former atheist went to hell...what he saw !


To Hell and Back

reply to post by Murgatroid

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These stories illustrate the idea of out of body experiences. It doesn't only happen to those in comas or undergoing surgery. It happens me, and many others that I have talked to.

While out of body, one may meet other humans who are also out of body, they are not demons. One may meet other non-bodied entities as well. Not all disembodied entities are evil and or demons.

If we are able to get around without out bodies, is it possible that ET's are also astral projecting to us? The ability to be without a body doesn't necessarily indicate demons.

reply to post by Murgatroid

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I can't credit these stories one way or the other. The story of Lazarus being the only reference I know that describes something similar to what these people describe. I just find people telling stories very hard to trust. Yes, even Bible thumping Christians get heavily scrutinized before I will even consider their story. It has to make sense and they must offer proof of what they can offer.

For instance:
If storm says he was an atheist. He should always when offering his story. Have that proof and offer it. Then we can immediately scrutinize that proof and decide for ourselves, beyond what he has simply said.

reply to post by Murgatroid

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Just another attempt to convert people by 'others' coming out. I don't buy it, besides I am well versed in what the Near Death Experience phenomena really is.

It's possible for the Bible to be full of just enough half-truths to snare the ones who lack discernment.

Do you honestly believe there is any difference in the prayers granted between God/Jesus and Buddha or Krishna, or Brahma, etc? If you answer yes, I condemn your arrogance and dangerous amount of pride. There is NO proof to suggest anything even remotely like that. So in essence, it doesn't matter who you pray to. So for that I pray to myself. In the end, that's all you have and all you'll ever need.

reply to post by VeritasAequitas

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I condemn your arrogance

What will most definitely be condemned in the end is ignorance. The ignorance that would compare Christianity to buddhism.

Originally posted by randyvs
reply to post by VeritasAequitas

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I condemn your arrogance

What will most definitely be condemned in the end is ignorance. The ignorance that would compare Christianity to buddhism.

Oh really!?!

JESUS: "A foolish man, which built his house on sand."
BUDDHA: "Perishable is a city built on sand." (30)

JESUS: "Therefore confess your sins one to another, and pray one for another, that you may be healed."
BUDDHA: "Confess before the world the sins you have committed." (31)

JESUS: "In him we have redemption through his blood, the foregiveness of sins."
BUDDHA: "Let all sins that were committed in this world fall on me, that the world may be delivered." (32)

JESUS: "Do to others as you would have them do to you."
BUDDHA: "Consider others as yourself." (33)

JESUS: "If anyone strikes you on the cheek, offer the other also."
BUDDHA: "If anyone should give you a blow with his hand, with a stick, or with a knife, you should abandon all desires and utter no evil words." (34)

JESUS: "Love your enemies, do good to those who hate, bless those who curse you, pray for those who abuse you."
BUDDHA: "Hatreds do not cease in this world by hating, but by love: this is an eternal truth. Overcome anger by love, overcome evil by good." (35)

JESUS: "This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you."
BUDDHA: "Let your thoughts of boundless love pervade the whole world." (36)

JESUS: "Let anyone among you who is without sin be the first to cast a stone at her."
BUDDHA: "Do not look at the faults of others or what others have done or not done; observe what you yourself have done and have not done." (37)

JESUS: "You father in heaven makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the righteous and on the unrighteous."
BUDDHA: "The light of the sun and the moon illuminates the whole world, both him who does well and him who does ill, both him who stands high and him who stands low." (38)

JESUS: "If you wish to be perfect, go sell your possessions, and give the money to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven."
BUDDHA: "The avaricious do not go to heaven, the foolish do not extol charity. The wise one, however, rejoicing in charity, becomes thereby happy in the beyond." (39)

www.thezensite.com...

Buddha preceeded Jesus by about 500 years and Buddhism was a widespread and well accepted philosophy in the Hellenistic areas where Jesus lived.

Hellenist thought and Buddhism may have started in Hellenic lands at that time. They have pointed to the presence of Buddhist communities in the Hellenistic world around that period, in particular in Alexandria (mentioned by Clement of Alexandria), and to the pre-Christian monastic order of the Therapeutae (possibly a deformation of the Pali word "Theravada"), who may have "almost entirely drawn (its) inspiration from the teaching and practices of Buddhist ascetism" (Robert Lissen). www.religionfacts.com...

reply to post by windword

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Come on Win ? What are you thinking my response is going to be ? Something like, Oh ya, forgot there were false religions before Christ to go along with false Gods ? And I bet you can't show me that the verses you mention were first uttered by Buddha ? Or that they weren't adopted by Buddhism after the Canons construction ?

Even if you can ? I still don't see a comparison.

reply to post by randyvs

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Unlike Jesus, Buddha's ministry was well funded and he had followers that wrote down what he said, when he said it. Before Buddha died, there were temples and monasteries already in place and were teaching Buddha's words and ways.

It is well documented that these writings originated within the time frame of around 500 BC and are written in Sanskit.

If you can't see the similarities between the 2 teaching, then I feel sorry for you and your small little closed mind.

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