Originally posted by randyvs
I feel tthe Mods about to bear down on us you guys. So try to form the Qs and Cs to aliens or demons.
so we can find our way back to the topic. Other than that everyone contributing here are really great people contributing some interesting posts to this thread so

Thank you again. Everyone.

Yeah, I mean seriously, this thread is supposed to be about UFO's and their relationship to what are called angels and demons, not a religious debate. Its almost like the sole intent of the trolls is to turn this into debate about religion so as to give the mods a reason to close this thread.

Ok then, let's get back on subject. If you believe the stories of people being abducted are true, then you must also believe the ones where they are taken aboard their craft. Maybe you also believe the stories of recovered craft that crashed, and had dead alien bodies with it? Or maybe you also believe Bob Lazar's stories of area 51? Or the stories of the people in the Disclosure Project? Or do you just pick and choose the stories you want to believe that fit your worldview?

If you believe all of these stories then you would believe that people have seen and been inside these E.T.'s spacecrafts. You would also believe that these E.T.'s have died in crashes. If this is the case, how do demons die in crashes? Also, how do they build these spacecraft? Do they have a mine on some planet where they get the metals to fashion the craft? Do they have factories somewhere where they build the craft or factories where they make the tools they use to build the craft? Do they have demon engineers that design the craft? etc etc

Originally posted by Hydroman
Ok then, let's get back on subject. If you believe the stories of people being abducted are true, then you must also believe the ones where they are taken aboard their craft. Maybe you also believe the stories of recovered craft that crashed, and had dead alien bodies with it? Or maybe you also believe Bob Lazar's stories of area 51? Or the stories of the people in the Disclosure Project? Or do you just pick and choose the stories you want to believe that fit your worldview?

If you believe all of these stories then you would believe that people have seen and been inside these E.T.'s spacecrafts. You would also believe that these E.T.'s have died in crashes. If this is the case, how do demons die in crashes? Also, how do they build these spacecraft? Do they have a mine on some planet where they get the metals to fashion the craft? Do they have factories somewhere where they build the craft or factories where they make the tools they use to build the craft? Do they have demon engineers that design the craft? etc etc

edit on 2-6-2012 by Hydroman because: (no reason given)

You're assuming a lot here, but I'll take a crack at answering your question.

To begin with, there is the possibility that the contactee/abduction issue and the UFO phenomenon are separate from each other. This does seem to be the case to an extent (unless you believe the one account we have out of potentially millions of cases in which an abduction was actually witnessed). Abductions, for whatever reason, seem to be more a case of sleep paralysis or spiritual in nature than physical. Often times they occur in crowded cities, with people all around, yet we have only one case (that I can think of) that was apparently witnessed by anyone.

The other assumption you are making here, is that because there might be a physical element to all of this, the "demonic" can't be involved. The bible is full of stories of angels walking right beside people, eating with them, physically interacting with them, etc. If angels can assume physical form and effect the physical environment around them, so can their counterparts. Additionally, in the story of the Nephilim in Genesis, we are told that the "sons of God" lusted after earthly women, and had children with them. This without a doubt requires a physical interaction of some sort (and remains eerily similar to accounts of hybrid/alien breeding programs described in abduction accounts).

The final assumption you have made here is that the name by which we call these entities is not interchangeable. You assume that because we are in an era where science and reason reigns, the ancients didn't know what they were talking about. We've had the "abduction phenomenon" for thousands of years. It's constantly adapted with our civilization (take stories of fairy abductions as an example). So either the phenomenon has changed to adapt to us, or we've changed to shape the phenomenon itself. Either way, we are dealing with something that isn't as easily defined as you would like it to be (i.e nuts and bolts space craft from another planet).

Originally posted by DeadSeraph
The other assumption you are making here, is that because there might be a physical element to all of this, the "demonic" can't be involved. The bible is full of stories of angels walking right beside people, eating with them, physically interacting with them, etc. If angels can assume physical form and effect the physical environment around them, so can their counterparts.

So it is possible that demons build physical craft that they fly around in, in which we have possibly captured and reverse-engineered? It is also possible that demons who were flying these craft when they crashed, had died? How did demons die? I wasn't aware they could...

Originally posted by DeadSeraph
Additionally, in the story of the Nephilim in Genesis, we are told that the "sons of God" lusted after earthly women, and had children with them. This without a doubt requires a physical interaction of some sort (and remains eerily similar to accounts of hybrid/alien breeding programs described in abduction accounts).

I have a whole thread dedicated to this. Yes, I'm aware of the Genesis account and the Book of Enoch account. And my question remains, how are angels compatible with human women in that they can reproduce sexually with us? And if they are, can they reproduce amongst themselves? If not, why do they have the capability to reproduce? What was this god thinking when he made them?

Originally posted by DeadSeraph
The final assumption you have made here is that the name by which we call these entities is not interchangeable. You assume that because we are in an era where science and reason reigns, the ancients didn't know what they were talking about. We've had the "abduction phenomenon" for thousands of years. It's constantly adapted with our civilization (take stories of fairy abductions as an example). So either the phenomenon has changed to adapt to us, or we've changed to shape the phenomenon itself. Either way, we are dealing with something that isn't as easily defined as you would like it to be (i.e nuts and bolts space craft from another planet).

Have you not made assumptions in your explanations? I don't know if abductions really have taken place now or in the past. All I hear are stories with no way of verifying them to be true. I question it all.

So it is possible that demons build physical craft that they fly around in, in which we have possibly captured and reverse-engineered? It is also possible that demons who were flying these craft when they crashed, had died? How did demons die? I wasn't aware they could...

I don't see why it wouldn't be possible. Let's not completely discard the "inter-dimensional" theory either. What are angelic beings if not inter-dimensional? As for beings dying, we have no proof either way, so this whole thing is speculation at best. But I would contend that if we could observe such beings dying, and analyze the corpse completely under strict medical conditions and prove that this process was that of a biological being dying naturally, that would put the issue to rest, as the bible contends that angelic beings are eternal. Such information is not in the public domain, and remains so speculative as to be open to highly unusual theories. One could easily contend that the stories of alien bodies are deceptions themselves.

I have a whole thread dedicated to this. Yes, I'm aware of the Genesis account and the Book of Enoch account. And my question remains, how are angels compatible with human women in that they can reproduce sexually with us? And if they are, can they reproduce amongst themselves? If not, why do they have the capability to reproduce? What was this god thinking when he made them?

I'd be interested in checking out your thread if you could point me to it

As for your questions, the simple answer is that we just don't know. We know from scripture that the "sons of god" lusted after the daughters of men (seeing that they were beautiful), but this doesn't narrow it down for us. It's implied that this was sexual in nature (and hence indicates an act of procreation), but this is not completely certain. As for the ability of angels to reproduce among themselves, there is no scripture to back up this idea at all (which again, correlates eerily with the "alien hybrid" stuff we find in the abduction phenomenon). Why do aliens even need to perform sexual acts with humans? why do they need to create hybrids? The question of why still remains regardless of whether we are talking about aliens from another planet, or inter-dimensional/demonic beings. The proponents of the demonic theory contend that this was an effort to pollute the blood line/DNA of man.

As for what God was thinking when he made them, what was he thinking when he made the universe? Who can say? I contend however, that the ability for such beings to reproduce with humans is not out of the question. We are talking about entities which predate man by billions of years (having been present with God at the dawn of creation, and thus his first creations). Beings that can supposedly take any shape they like, manifest physically, and possess unimaginable intelligence. Enoch seems to indicate their fallen brethren even taught men various technologies. So why is it out of the question for them to have the ability to fashion vehicles or to engage in physical acts with human beings? Is it possible that you and I are talking about the same thing but seeing it from different angles, and the truth lies somewhere in between?

Have you not made assumptions in your explanations? I don't know if abductions really have taken place now or in the past. All I hear are stories with no way of verifying them to be true. I question it all.

I have made many assumptions. Ultimately that's all we are left with due to a lack of data. The entire subject is conjecture at best, and I freely admit that my idea's on the subject are no more valid than anyone else's. As for questioning it all, I think that is the best policy and I try to do the same

Originally posted by ratsinacage
for some reason its easier for some ppl to believe in aliens who fly here from light years away only to remain strangely standoffish than to believe in 'angels and demons'....

oh...it must be because aliens dont require a moral commitment.....angels and demons correlates to god and the bible and oooh we really dont wanna go there do we.......

Yes i do...
1: I can walk with my legs
2: I can ride my bicykle
3: I can drive my car
4: I "COULD" drive a train (They wouldnt let me but i could, honest)
5: I "could" fly a plane, sam there as #4
6: We have sent ppl to the Moon
7: The plan is to send ppl to Mars
Thats evolution in steps easy enough to comprehend.

Billions of stars in our galaxy alone, billions of galaxies in universe.
Stars older than our, planets older than ours. And it is my beliefe
even Civilisations older than ours..No doubts in MY mind about
aliens who could travel here. And i "could" bet that "they" could
do it VERRY fast aswell..

Now, before you reply, read VERRY careful what i have written.

Originally posted by DeadSeraph
No one can prove the ufo phenomenon is linked to space aliens either, so we're still left with speculation

I agree.

Originally posted by DeadSeraph
This is probably worth it's own thread. In the case of the Christian perspective, we have a clue in something Jesus said when he talked about the time of his return: "As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man." The one thing that stands out about the days of Noah, is the account of the Nephilim. Scripture seems to indicate the flood was less about punishing mankind, and more about wiping out the Nephilim and preserving purely human lineage.

It does? Here's what Genesis 6: 5-7 says, " And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. And the Lord said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them."

I don't see anything about Nephilim in there...unless you're talking about the Book of Enoch, which isn't part of the Bible.

Originally posted by DeadSeraph
Why would fallen angels be at this again? Some contend it is an effort to further their own plans for earth (by seeding it with wickedness), while at the same time preparing for the Anti-Christ (who would be a hybrid himself). The idea being that in our age of reason, a direct approach would be all too obvious, so it is better that people believe that space aliens are behind all of this (lest their eyes be open to the truth, and people turn to God). Again, this is nothing but speculation, but there are biblical reasons behind why this would be occurring again.

Fair enough. Do you think Jesus was a hybrid? Just curious...

Originally posted by DeadSeraph
As for the theory that the aliens can't reproduce among themselves, Well... Neither can angels

But you think angels CAN reproduce with us??? That doesn't make sense. At least the Aliens would be using advanced technology to make hybrids, where angels are actually having sex with us and somehow producing offspring with us...but can't with each other....

Originally posted by DeadSeraph
The aliens (and contactees) themselves seem to contend that this is the case (again, wild speculation). Where they differ with Christians is on the issue of Christ being the resurrected living Son of God.

I agree, it's speculation. It may also be to sell books and videos...

Originally posted by DeadSeraph
I'm not quite sure what I am. I'm content to admit that I don't know jack

Cool, I admit that I don't know jack diddly either.

Originally posted by DeadSeraph
I lean towards evolution and the big bang theory being guided by God, however.

Why throw a god into the mix? Because you can't think of any other way it might have happened?

Originally posted by DeadSeraph
Seems like we agree on a lot

We should go on a date.

Originally posted by randyvs
UFOs and aliens belong to the PARANORMAL. They exhibit the same principals in mischief mind f__k as ghosts, bigfoot, elves, poltergiests. What have you ? All the paranormal is Demonic. Designed to confuse, conflict and confound the word of God. If people don't see that as plain and simple as it is ? They set them selves up for this grand illusion.

All paranormal is demonic? Can you prove this? Can you even prove that paranormal activity is indeed real, and not a product of the imagination?

Let me give an example: When I was a kid, I was asleep in bed and I heard my name being called out, gently. It scared the doo doo out of me. I kept hearing it, over and over. I pulled the covers over my head because I was so scared. I finally got the nerve to answer the calling. I said, "What do you want?" and my name kept being called. I got up out of bed to find the source. It was my brother in the bunk above me, his breathing while asleep sounded like my name.

Originally posted by randyvs
We're speaking in terms of human experience categorically. The paranormal exists. See how you start a chain reaction of eliminations when you try to perform the God does not exist argumentation ?

God does not have to exist for the paranormal to exist. But, I'm not sure if that's what you meant. For example, if people actually are seeing ghosts, or something like that, how do we know it's not from an affect from messing with time? What I mean by that is how do we know someone somewhere hasn't found a way to manipulate time, and it has caused ripples which allows us to periodically see people from the past, present, or future, or whatever? Just an idea.

Originally posted by randyvs
Hey I wasn't the one doing the elimnating. Enough with the double speak already. Smoke screening jaberwalkie talkie.

Can you give an example of what you're talking about? I guess I don't know what you're trying to say...