Do I have freedom FROM religion?

This thread summed up in one sentence -

"I don't like it when people use freedom of speech/freedom of religion in a manner I dislike. I say we remove their freedoms."

Oooookay.

*cough* hypocrites *cough*

Any parent will always worry about what their unsupervised children will be exposed to, but it's the constant positive reinforcement that will strengthen the kid to make the right decision when the parents are not around.

Op, I don't understand why you are more afraid of your kids being exposed to religion yet you don't seem to mind having them exposed to modern day decadence: ex. Girls gone wild scenarios, homosexuals kissing in public, offensive music and movies,...
Hate to sound like a prude, but its true, seems religion should be the least of your worries.

Just watched a PBS special about WWII. On D-Day, the citizens of the US were in prayer in most places as 1,500,000 of their countrymen, mostly young men, were about to risk their lives to save the European nations and to prevent the spread of German Nazi party beliefs to America.

Funny how we ask God for help when we are about to die, but want Him out of our face when we don't need Him.

The true test of a man's character is in what he is doing when no one knows what he is doing. If a man believes there is a God, it helps keep his character strong in those alone moments when he has choices for good or evil. I believe God assists man in those hours of need. That makes the difference in society. There will always be those who err concerning religion, but for the most part it has served our country well.

reply to post by SaturnFX


Dear SaturnFX,

Personally I am against prayer in public schools (I should be able to send my children to a religious school however) and I also think having God on our currency is mocking of God (funny how anyone would claim to be a Christian and want "In God we Trust" on money when it is said that the love of money is the root of all evil). We should be free of those things; but, I should be free to say what I believe in public even if it offends others. My question for you is, if you wish to be free of religion, why do you always post in the forums about it? You could be even freer of religion if you stopped trying to have religious debates.

reply to post by SaturnFX


The separation of church and state issue raised by Thomas Jefferson in a letter to a Baptist church defined it as keeping the state out of the church, not keeping the church out of the state. You would be wise to hope that moral beliefs are guiding our leaders, and that God is watching them when they make their important decisions. You and I are not there in those chambers. Pray that He inspires them to do well for all of us.

Originally posted by Lionhearte
This thread summed up in one sentence -

"I don't like it when people use freedom of speech/freedom of religion in a manner I dislike. I say we remove their freedoms."

Oooookay.

*cough* hypocrites *cough*

No, you don't understand
See, I just want to replace the word God with Allah.
See, this doesn't establish religion in the same way God doesn't establish religion.

Surely everyone is on board with me..its just a meaningless word, right? We can replace it with any word..so, lets use that word for a bit considering all things are equal and the government cannot establish a religion...

If its just a all encompassing word for all beliefs, then we can use the same word in a slightly different, more traditional worldly word.

Well, we don't have to change it for now..but maybe in about 40 years, we can make a big movement to change it due to more people having that word embedded in their new religion...I am totally ok with this if you lot are.

And again..its just a meaningless word...in allah we trust..one nation, under allah.


if this touched a bit of a nerve, even enough to think..well this is absurd..then its time to reflect on what is bugging you about it
(hint, because it establishes a different religion than the one that was put in place)
You are keeping the door open.

Anyhow, I am overreacting I guess...its not like people would have issue with a minority religion in the country actually gaining any sort of power...that would be silly...imagine the news of such an absurd paranoia..say, some silly headline like Kansas banning Sharia law...naa...all things are accepted and nothing forced on us, or forced to be silent...
-waves a flag and watches nascar like a good little unquestioning american-

Originally posted by AQuestion
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

Dear SaturnFX,

Personally I am against prayer in public schools (I should be able to send my children to a religious school however) and I also think having God on our currency is mocking of God (funny how anyone would claim to be a Christian and want "In God we Trust" on money when it is said that the love of money is the root of all evil). We should be free of those things; but, I should be free to say what I believe in public even if it offends others. My question for you is, if you wish to be free of religion, why do you always post in the forums about it? You could be even freer of religion if you stopped trying to have religious debates.

Our teachers have limited powers to punish students, which results in disruptive classes. Wouldn't a moral climate be better established to begin the class or school day than to cast that lot to let it be whatever it will? Would it not be better to suggest that the students answer to a higher authority for their actions?

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by Lionhearte
This thread summed up in one sentence -

"I don't like it when people use freedom of speech/freedom of religion in a manner I dislike. I say we remove their freedoms."

Oooookay.

*cough* hypocrites *cough*

No, you don't understand
See, I just want to replace the word God with Allah.
See, this doesn't establish religion in the same way God doesn't establish religion.

Surely everyone is on board with me..its just a meaningless word, right? We can replace it with any word..so, lets use that word for a bit considering all things are equal and the government cannot establish a religion...
[snip]

As I understand Allah, he was the one god left over when Muhammed destroyed the other 364 gods. Allah was the god of the Moon. Allah was a vengeful, hateful god who killed nonbelievers, even to this day as we speak.
Not the same god as God in the New Testament. Might want to run a comparison check. I for one would never follow a horrible god like Allah. I like peace and love and forgiveness, not the scimitar to the neck of the people who will not convert.

Originally posted by Jim Scott
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

The separation of church and state issue raised by Thomas Jefferson in a letter to a Baptist church defined it as keeping the state out of the church, not keeping the church out of the state. You would be wise to hope that moral beliefs are guiding our leaders, and that God is watching them when they make their important decisions. You and I are not there in those chambers. Pray that He inspires them to do well for all of us.

Oh, I do hope religion takes over the state
I would love nothing more than to have the state institute a mosque program..every street corner should have a call to prayer.

As far as moral beliefs, yes...I want the same morality instituted as was in Salem during the witch trials...you know..that good old fashion religious morality that allowed people to burn other people to death over superstition...I mean..religious morals are always good, right?

2 towers are missing from new york because of religious morality. Yay religious morals! please..teach us more..some of us are still breathing.

Originally posted by Jim Scott
As I understand Allah, he was the one god left over when Muhammed destroyed the other 364 gods. Allah was the god of the Moon. Allah was a vengeful, hateful god who killed nonbelievers, even to this day as we speak.
Not the same god as God in the New Testament. Might want to run a comparison check. I for one would never follow a horrible god like Allah. I like peace and love and forgiveness, not the scimitar to the neck of the people who will not convert.

Right, but the US cannot endorse a religion..therefore the god on our money is not any specific god
Allah is a more universal term for a creator..any creator..or no creator. Check the thread here, many wise people corrected me on this.

Wait..are you saying God on the money and such is actually directing towards an established religion? That the government is violating the first amendment?

Naa..can't be...after all this time of people telling me its fine because its not any specific religion...

Originally posted by AQuestion
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

Dear SaturnFX,

Personally I am against prayer in public schools (I should be able to send my children to a religious school however) and I also think having God on our currency is mocking of God (funny how anyone would claim to be a Christian and want "In God we Trust" on money when it is said that the love of money is the root of all evil). We should be free of those things; but, I should be free to say what I believe in public even if it offends others. My question for you is, if you wish to be free of religion, why do you always post in the forums about it? You could be even freer of religion if you stopped trying to have religious debates.

I have no problem with preachers on every road I walk down from here to eternity...hell, if they are good at their dogma, I may stop and listen to some of them.

My rage against the machine is...against the machine
Government agencies and establishments pushing any sort of religion. the money, the -teacher lead- prayer in school some are trying to get reinstated, big bulky statues in courthouses and such with the 10 commandments.

I don't care about churches, or people wearing crosses the size of an actual crusifiction post around their neck..that is their right to do so..its a person's right to stand on a street corner and spout out whatever they want, be it religious, a phone book, or how they like pie...let them speak.

Where my tax dollars go however is where I want freedom from religion..not from the individuals, but from the government.

What most don't understand is that, todays flavor is christianity..tomorrow probably will be islam, then after that..who knows...startrekism....
the short sighted view is that America will always be a christian nation..therefore lets push more options for establishing religion on the people...which is fantastic with them.
look above at the sort of 180 when I said, lets just change the word from god to allah.
suddenly, its no longer this harmless all encompassing thing..it is omg they are indoctrinating us with the muslim sin stuff...
mhmm.

You have a rational viewpoint, being someone whom is quite religious..I value your opinion as a thinking christian. Your view then on my stance?

reply to post by SaturnFX


Just replace all those religions you named with "secular humanism" and then ask the same question, can I go out in public with my children and not have my whole family inundated with indoctrinating and brainwashing propaganda and absurd advertising.
I saw an ad today that totally blew my mind, and I don't know how they let it stay, but it involves a woman and a cat and some cat food then it shows a woman in bed, on top.....and then shows her and the cat on the sofa after. It's too bizarre and you may think nothing of it, but it is unacceptable nonsense. I may even call the station to complain(and I've never done that ever).

Originally posted by AQuestion
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

Dear SaturnFX,

Personally I am against prayer in public schools (I should be able to send my children to a religious school however) and I also think having God on our currency is mocking of God (funny how anyone would claim to be a Christian and want "In God we Trust" on money when it is said that the love of money is the root of all evil). We should be free of those things; but, I should be free to say what I believe in public even if it offends others. My question for you is, if you wish to be free of religion, why do you always post in the forums about it? You could be even freer of religion if you stopped trying to have religious debates.

I totally disagree with you on this. That just shows how deep the scientific materialism has penetrated our society.
If you have trouble spiritualizing coin by placing "In God We Trust" then you must have trouble accepting God in the material world entirely.

reply to post by Jim Scott


Dear Jim Scott,

Our teachers have limited powers to punish students, which results in disruptive classes. Wouldn't a moral climate be better established to begin the class or school day than to cast that lot to let it be whatever it will? Would it not be better to suggest that the students answer to a higher authority for their actions?

I don't trust a civil servant to explain spiritual beliefs to my children. If you wish to establish a moral climate then there are plenty of areas for opportunity. Telling an atheist child who has no choice but to be in a class what he should believe about God will not improve that climate, it will only upset the kid and his parents. I am not in favor of pushing my religious beliefs on anyone against their will. If you get on a thread in the spirituality section then you have chosen to hear spiritual responses. I was forced to go to public school as were most of us. I prefer that they teach evolution over the public schools discussing God at all, that is what church is for.

reply to post by SaturnFX


It's just push back because Obama woke up the sleeping giant and people are mad and not going to take it any more. It'a push back against secular humanism. Don't expect it to stop either.

Originally posted by AQuestion
reply to post by Jim Scott

 

Dear Jim Scott,

Our teachers have limited powers to punish students, which results in disruptive classes. Wouldn't a moral climate be better established to begin the class or school day than to cast that lot to let it be whatever it will? Would it not be better to suggest that the students answer to a higher authority for their actions?

I don't trust a civil servant to explain spiritual beliefs to my children. If you wish to establish a moral climate then there are plenty of areas for opportunity. Telling an atheist child who has no choice but to be in a class what he should believe about God will not improve that climate, it will only upset the kid and his parents. I am not in favor of pushing my religious beliefs on anyone against their will. If you get on a thread in the spirituality section then you have chosen to hear spiritual responses. I was forced to go to public school as were most of us. I prefer that they teach evolution over the public schools discussing God at all, that is what church is for.

Either you don't understand the purpose of values clarification in school, or you do know it and are being coy. I'm guessing you don't understand that the purpose of values clarification is exactly that educators know children depend on their environment to develop their ideas in life and to mold the children into the desired idea of the State, the State must get rid of the parental authority and separate the child from his parents ideas. That is a fact.

Originally posted by AQuestion
My question for you is, if you wish to be free of religion, why do you always post in the forums about it? You could be even freer of religion if you stopped trying to have religious debates.

This is a different question entirely..figured I would answer this with its own post (considering its slightly off topic).

Well, first off..its interesting. The whole debate..not just this subject, but the whole basket that comes with religious debates.
Why is it interesting? I don't know. I think I am attempting to try and understand the mind of a theist...I was a theist..arguably I leave this door open personally should something stunning happen to me. But, I am highly curious about how my mind can work one way, and a different fellow human being can see the same thing yet come away with a completely different understanding than myself.

Pretty deep question actually...one I already hate trying to sum up in a short reply due to its complexity.

I don't however want to be free from religion from the people..just the people with badges and guns so to speak...the thought of a theocracy scares the $#@^ out of me...perhaps I went from mildly atheist to on a crusade get religion out of the states control completely when I travelled through the middle east and seen a theocracy firsthand...the sheer weight of "god" (government using god) made everyone paranoid..seemingly always anxious, unable to have proper conversations about whats truely on their mind, etc. (then again, I was in my 20s, my collegues were similar..they didn't like the heavy hand of religion and did speak out against it..quietly.). So, ya..I don't want America to fall to that one day in the future (be it 10 years, or 100)...I quite like America to be equal and free from such possibilities.

I see the government trying to juggle. the religious right wants to push more and more religion into statehood...but due to being politically correct (and the constitution), they try to make it equal and encompassing (fail, its always judeo-christian based). What a nightmare they are creating for themselves..might as well just paint a big multicolored X on the back of liberty for someone to stab down the line.

God doesn't need money to get his message across..nor does he need a state rep to toss in words pledging a nations flag as gods (same nation that will go to war for...???...purposes..America is just land..its dirt, trees, and water..the people is where the spirit is..how can an atheist know this but a theist doesnt?

I could go on...basically, its a intellectual enigma I am curious about, but this enigma also has real effects that touch me (without my desire to) daily even if I did want to ignore it (everytime I get a dollar)

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

Just replace all those religions you named with "secular humanism" and then ask the same question, can I go out in public with my children and not have my whole family inundated with indoctrinating and brainwashing propaganda and absurd advertising.
I saw an ad today that totally blew my mind, and I don't know how they let it stay, but it involves a woman and a cat and some cat food then it shows a woman in bed, on top.....and then shows her and the cat on the sofa after. It's too bizarre and you may think nothing of it, but it is unacceptable nonsense. I may even call the station to complain(and I've never done that ever).

Thats free market. they don't get my money unless I pay them to..they are not speaking for me..the government is.

and what..you don't like cats? shesh..(more of a dog lover myself actually.)

reply to post by SaturnFX

What most don't understand is that, todays flavor is christianity..tomorrow probably will be islam, then after that..who knows...startrekism....

And yet somehow, people who avidly promote this concept seem to have no problem at all sending kids to a mosque on a field trip. It really isn't about getting all of religion out, it is getting rid of that pesky Christianity the liberal seculars hate so much.

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

Just replace all those religions you named with "secular humanism" and then ask the same question, can I go out in public with my children and not have my whole family inundated with indoctrinating and brainwashing propaganda and absurd advertising.
I saw an ad today that totally blew my mind, and I don't know how they let it stay, but it involves a woman and a cat and some cat food then it shows a woman in bed, on top.....and then shows her and the cat on the sofa after. It's too bizarre and you may think nothing of it, but it is unacceptable nonsense. I may even call the station to complain(and I've never done that ever).

Thats free market. they don't get my money unless I pay them to..they are not speaking for me..the government is.

and what..you don't like cats? shesh..(more of a dog lover myself actually.)

Please don't be coy with me. It was very clearly suggestive....of bestiality. If you don't see a problem with that, I rest my case.

As an afterthought, so advertising a woman in bed with a cat(well it suggests it but you don't actually see the cat but you know it by the suggestion) is free market, but a Christmas card with a tree on it is not? Or free market is only ok when it's a woman and cat immoral and outrageous by the average person's standar, but it is not ok for the Christmas card with the tree on it because it is too religious for your liking?Or maybe the tree is ok by you as long as it doesn't have the objectionable "Merry Christmas" on the front of it, and you must need to avoid shopping during the Holiday season to avoid it.