Seized from smugglers, the leather-bound 'gospel' which Iran claims will bring down Christianity a

reply to post by CaptainLJB


Only a few things:

1. Provable documentation from the era of Star Trek that it was a "fake". We know it's science fiction because we were there. Plus, the time is in the future. That kind of gives it away until about 500 years after the Star Trek dates are long gone. Then archaeology could dig it up, and find out that it's much older. Hrm, and ancient prophecy? lol
2. Moon landing has much the same documentation, going both ways, that Star Trek has. Again, many of us were alive for it--or our parents were.
3. Holocaust. Same issue.

4. Thing is that our generation is bombarded with information. We are far more literate than many populations were. The material to write on is abundant. Then there's the spare time to write instead of working for our daily meal--yes, we don't know what hand-to-mouth existence is! All these factors go against people having time to spend on a lot of fiction, especially in a subjugated nation. Not saying that stories were not written from the era, but that people plain did not have the time or collateral to waste upon something that wasn't reasonable, to them.

5. But this isn't the place to start. Why believe in a God on earth, when you can't believe the setting? Start with how many rulers and governors and men who would be documented in Roman bureaucratic texts actually 1. existed , 2. were in power, 3. did things that align with the text. Follow how Archaeologist of the area actually use/have used the Bible to find lost cities. See if the mundane checks out before just jumping into the miraculous. (For an easier time with looking at the difference between something that has no grounding in reality, and the Bible, compare the archaeological findings that align with the book of Mormon, and contrast them.)

6. Start looking at how wide the gaps are between accepted non-Biblical historical texts' dates about secular life in Christ's time. Compare that to the stretch of time between when Christ was supposed to be on this Earth. Then look to see the criticisms on the ones that have larger gaps than Christianity. When there's no argument from a historical authority's perspective when the gaps are larger, yet Christianity's being argued over, there's got to be a reason, no? What is the stated reason?

7. Start pulling up other religions and see how many of them point to real places that exist, consistently through their writings, but in these real places, none of the things that they point out exist? Or do they even bother to mention documented people and places?

This is not even a remotely full attempt to point out what can be looked at to determine whether or not this book has a chance of being true. the sad part is that while a few have looked for these things on here (on both sides of the decision) most, including those who claim that it's all fake, have not looked at enough to tell me whether Pontius Pilate actually existed, or if there was such a thing as The Queen of Sheba.

Now, I apologize if you actually have researched it, but if you have not, you base your opinions on thin air.

Originally posted by MI5edtoDeath
I also think the Vatican knows this and so has made a formal request to examine the document.
.

edit on 25-5-2012 by MI5edtoDeath because: (no reason given)

If the Vatican gets a hold off it, it will never be seen again...

id really like to study this! unfortunately probably won't come to public light for another 20-40 years! (ala dead sea scrolls!)
as for shaking christianity,well that probably won't happen. christians are so brainwashed by the lies about the christ the church has sold them,and they have little want to know the true history of their own 'faith'!
ignorance is blisss!!!

reply to post by MI5edtoDeath


Anyone could have wrote this anytime really... a believer in Islam and Mohammed who wants to bring the Christians down.... until this is proven authentic from BC then i'm not believing the story.

Originally posted by MI5edtoDeath


If true, I don't think it would be a disaster for Christians. I think it may be the start of something great for humanity - peace.

edit on 25-5-2012 by MI5edtoDeath because: (no reason given)

That is where you are wrong. We are talking Religious war. Maybe not on a large scale but there would be feuds between the worlds current version of humanity and the newer version of humanity.

But that would not happen because even if it proven to be peiod authentic there is no way in hell to prove that so and so wrote it.

Now lets look at the sumerian tablets. Yuo cant even wrap your head around the fact that the tablets are real. Your christian old testament was written 1377 years after the tablets and you also ripped off the story line replacing annunaki with god, adamu with adam, eve with tiamet, the spaceship that stored all the dna and eggs of the animals of the earth, not to mention hundreds of other name changes wars and what not.

So if you cant see the sumerian tablets as the fact that they are, translated by dozens of universitys and colleges world wide, as fact, then what makes you think that "christians" would just change their belief system.

Point of your thread is now moot and pointless.

Originally posted by Anonymous404
www.rt.com...

The agency says the text contains spelling errors and moreover, the writing is in Modern Assyrian, which was standardized in the 1840s.

Something about it screams centuries old hoax.

But then again, an argument between two organized religions is as silly as an imaginary friends boxing match.

Not on ATS. I think if you dig deeply enough you'll find people defending Zeus as the one true god...
Look at Rocketman: the poor guy's let UFO religions go to his head!

reply to post by CynicalDrivel


I've put enough research into Christianity as it deserves--about as much as any other religion on this planet.
Even if a few historical bits lineup, the root of the thing is hogwash. Had it never existed, and someone told the story today to a literate audience it would be taken as insane: guy gets nailed up, appears afterwards, that's proof he's the son of the creator of the whole frigging universe, blah blah blah. Add to the fact that no proof of any of it exists except for third person hearsay produced centuries after the "fact." Ditto for Islam and Muhammed's wonderful stories of flying a horse to heaven and hearing voices in his head. Except that Muslims have one good thing on their side: Muhammed was a real-life person (schizophrenic, barbaric, totalitarian, and a pedophile but nonetheless a flesh-and-blood man). But they all preach the same mind-prison belief systems based around Fear of what's gonna happen after croaking. Follow the holy book and you're safe for all eternity; don't follow it and you're damned for all eternity (with Satan getting off on your soul).

It's why I'm an Atheist: a real-worlder rational guy who draws a line between the secular world and centuries-old BS stories. And being generally hated by 9 out of 10 people, I'm paying the price for this position.

Originally posted by CaptainLJB
I've put enough research into Christianity as it deserves--about as much as any other religion on this planet.

This was all that was needed. YOU did your own personal research, did not take other's research as your own? Fine, then you've done your job, and I need nothing more. So, I will have no more to do with it.

This was a venting due to almost everyone I come across who insist that hey have looked into don't have a list of who and what was proven beyond argument from the book. That is all.

reply to post by CaptainLJB


Maybe he did exist however some of the claims may have been exagerated...I don't believe we had dragons but a lot of sailors claim to see them cetnuries ago...could the same apply to jesus?

reply to post by MI5edtoDeath


There are many versions of the Bible because there are many manuscripts that are conflicting. Which Bible you choose depends on which manuscripts you work from.
Origin did the Septuigent version of the old texts - he believed the stars had souls, Jesus was not God and he castorated himself to further his religious experience.
Tischendorf brought the Codex Siniatus from the Holy Land and it along with the Codex Vaticanus were used to interpret critical versions of the Bible such as the AV, RSV, NIV, NKJV, and JW versions. These versions favor works salvation, baptismal regeneration, or savlation + something for redemption.
The old recieved text of the NT was used for the KJB. This version is used by the saved by grace for ever group.
If we got a new version, the Bible printers would rejoice, more revenue for them. The athiest would rejoice, more fodder for them. Satan would rejoice, more confusion for him to spread. And Jesus would be sad that so many miss what He really was and what He is.

Originally posted by daaskapital

Originally posted by MI5edtoDeath
I also think the Vatican knows this and so has made a formal request to examine the document.
.

edit on 25-5-2012 by MI5edtoDeath because: (no reason given)

If the Vatican gets a hold off it, it will never be seen again...

Sure it will. If it's real, they'll make a fake copy and switch it out, then show that the fake is a fake. If it's fake, they'll print it in every news source available and make a big deal out of it to try to start whatever war they can.
I do agree with you that the Vatican should never lay a finger on it in any way, shape or form, but am very suspicious of its authenticity as well.

This is still the dumbest thread on ats.

Barnabes died aorund 61 ad. This was written around 5th 6th century, during the era of islam. And still being propelled into ats history as a worthy discussion

Originally posted by Jordan River
This is still the dumbest thread on ats.

Barnabes died aorund 61 ad. This was written around 5th 6th century, during the era of islam. And still being propelled into ats history as a worthy discussion

You are completely wrong in the dates you are bandying around.

Christianity and Islam are religions of the people of the Middle East. If you believe Christianity is a worthy discussion on ats, so is Islam. To say otherwise would make you a hypocrite. I presume you are a Christian based on the tone of your comment and it is great you are borrowing from the theological culture of the people of the Middle East.

Islam is estimated to have started in 570 AD, the 6th Century, in Arabia. The St. Barnabas book is estimated to have been written between the 5th and 6th Century. During this period, Islam had no presence in Palestine in the 6th Century.

You will have to remember that Jesus' disciples were illiterate and they continued to preach Jesus' words for many years. The gospels were written and re-written by witnesses and scribes until these documents were collected by Constantinople and the Roman Church.

The Pope has asked to see the book, probably because they have ancient copies hidden in the bowls of the Vatican and want to compare notes before announcing their comments.

Originally posted by MI5edtoDeath


Islam is estimated to have started in 570 AD, the 6th Century, in Arabia. The St. Barnabas book is estimated to have been written between the 5th and 6th Century. During this period, Islam had no presence in Palestine in the 6th Century.
.

5th 6th century, meaning 400-599 A.d . and islam, remarkbly within that time frame.

Barnebas did not live 500 years.

and Islam is worthy discussion, this book is not

Originally posted by chrismarco
reply to post by CaptainLJB

 

Maybe he did exist however some of the claims may have been exagerated...I don't believe we had dragons but a lot of sailors claim to see them cetnuries ago...could the same apply to jesus?

There's more proof for the existence of dragons than there is for Jesus.

Take Plato and Caesar for example. We can study these guys writings today. There are busts of them. Nothing for Jesus. Not even a page from His notebook. Everything on JC came after him, usually long after him like centuries. There's more credibility for the Roswell crash being a flying saucer than JC being God, and we're only half a century away from the former rather than something like two millennia from the latter.. People back then believed in A Lot of Sh!t, from the Earth being flat to demons causing diseases. Most Americans can't get any of this through their tiny heads though, they've been so brainwashed from birth.

As for dragons. They've been seen all over the world, described and modeled. They bear an uncanny resemblance to dinosaurs. It's not too difficult to image that a small remnant of those creatures survived in isolated to relatively recent times and formed the basis of dragon lore.

I can't say the same for Jesus. However, I will say that there are many guys in institutions to this very day who claim to Be Jesus Christ. There's nothing divine about it, owing to this mass-marked book called the Bible pounded up peoples' asses for generation after generation, many times via Convert or Die! It's no different than the Mooslims and Moohamad... Except that guy actually lived, unfortunately.

It comes down to this: Religion must die or We will die from it. People simply have to grow the hell up and face reality and not cater to primitive beliefs.

Originally posted by MI5edtoDeath

On the face of it this could be a hoax. However, Muslims are forbidden to disrespect Christianity especially Jesus. I also think the Vatican knows this and so has made a formal request to examine the document.

If true, I don't think it would be a disaster for Christians. I think it may be the start of something great for humanity - peace.

edit on 25-5-2012 by MI5edtoDeath because: (no reason given)

They are forbidden to disrespect Jesus because they believe he is God in the flesh . . .

If only the west actually read a Koran instead of listening to all the talking heads, so sad.

Originally posted by Jordan River
This is still the dumbest thread on ats.

Nah, there are worse. Search around here and you'll find all manner of tabloid newspaper crapola. Like the Celebrity Clone Conspiracy thread.

IMHO, any thread which takes religion dead-seriously like this is rather worthless. At least the others are entertaining.

I think it's sad how we're still arguing this when it was written in a language that was created 300 years after this was supposedly written.

Does no one else think that sounds hoaxy?

Originally posted by Jordan River

Originally posted by MI5edtoDeath


Islam is estimated to have started in 570 AD, the 6th Century, in Arabia. The St. Barnabas book is estimated to have been written between the 5th and 6th Century. During this period, Islam had no presence in Palestine in the 6th Century.
.

5th 6th century, meaning 400-599 A.d . and islam, remarkbly within that time frame.

Barnebas did not live 500 years.

and Islam is worthy discussion, this book is not

Islam was in the time frame by 30 years. During that 30 years, Islam was practiced only by Mohammed's (saw) followers.

The Barnabas Book has no involvement with Islam. If carbon dating places the book as pre-Islamic, the ramifications will be profound. Muslims and Christians will have to learn to worship God together.

reply to post by MI5edtoDeath


simply put, no. Because its probably a fake. Vatican wants some dialogue with Islam to bridge gap. This is a perfect time (either book fake or not) to increase the two religions into negotiation. To vatican its a political move

Also, do you believe that carbon dating, and historical accuracy of modern man to authenticate time between anicent history authenticate and 100% precise? Slap another 30-50 years ontop what ever was claim

also barnbe (sp?) did not live 500 years, and their would of been a copy found of this before iran found it.