Before There Was Welfare There Was Charity

reply to post by Bleeeeep


What I am saying is this; people are basically good. Ethics is necessary but ethics is not enough. There are gradations of awareness, of unawareness, of sanity, of insanity, of good and evil, and people are basically good. A business man who employees thousands of people will take into consideration their welfare in the decisions he makes, but depending upon his own awareness, unawareness, sanity, insanity, and good and evil, this businessman will define the Greatest Good to the Greatest amount through that lens.

Hitlers "final solution", in his mind, was an effort at achieving the Greatest Good to the Greatest Amount, and people are basically good. Consider this, Hitler simply gave the world what they wanted, until he gave that world what they wanted, and once it was given, the world collectively realized that this was not what they wanted. But the lessons of history get lost on us and we, depending upon our circumstances, ascend or descend into sanity or insanity, awareness, or unawareness, good and evil.

Ethics alone is not enough. It takes much more than that. Having a good heart is not enough. Life requires more.

A proper education or training should be readily available to every citizen. The middle class and the poor should not have to pay a single dime to go to school. All of this student loan crap, it shouldn't even be an issue in our supposed great country. We need educated citizens in order to progress as a nation so why isn't it the governments responsibility to educate the citizens? Educated citizens often pay taxes, those with no education usually do not because they aren't making enough money. You want more tax money coming in, educate everyone.

Time for me to say something that will not go over well with most of you. Those who are too poor and have nowhere to go should have housing provided by the government while in school, be it trade school, community college, or university. I mean we give so many worthless people free housing, why not give potential students a place to live while going to school? Just crack down on those who choose to be worthless and boot them from their free homes to make room for those who need the home more. Besides, the worthless people would now have a choice anyway, so if they don't want to make an effort screw them. So for those students who do not have anywhere to go or any way of paying their rent and utilities, help them out rather than the scum.

I wont deny that I am indeed biased on this as a college student who will be so far in debt upon finishing that once I do pay that off my go will be the first thing from Earth to reach another galaxy. Having two children of my own while majoring in electronics engineering isn't something I would call easy lol. What really about it though is that even with the grants I receive I still have no choice but to take maximum stafford loans in order to survive and raise my children. I didn't have a choice because nobody would hire me for anything more than minimum wage which meant that would need welfare assistance in the form of housing and food. So it was go into debt for this education I am working on or leech off of you guys the rest of my life, which do you prefer? I think I made the most responsible decision and none of you will ever succeed in changing that opinion.

My case as a married parent who's spouse is also in college is of course unique but guess what, there isn't much hope for us. Nobody will rent to us even with one of us working at a crappy job because those loans and grants can't be relied on as rent and the crappy job doesn't pay enough to qualify us as possible renters, that's what they all keep saying anyways. We've tried getting into section 8 housing and the will not help us, we don't do enough drugs or something... Currently and for almost three years now my wife and kids have been staying at her moms and I stay wherever. Nobody will freakin rent to us and the government will not help us by offering any of that welfare housing, I guess because we are making an effort. Her mom is all over us about finding a place and I believe she wants me to drop out of school and get a full time job for minimum wage which will still not qualify us for housing anywhere. The problem is that she is about to move in with her fiancee and then my wife and kids are screwed simply because we are worthless pieces of crap who are too lazy to go out there and make an effort to be successful... Oh and I almost forgot to mention that my wife is on the Dean's list and my gpa is around 3.4 - will hopefully go back over 3.5 next year, not too bad for a high school dropout who grew up in the projects and suffers from borderline personality disorder and major depression if you ask me.

So yeah, there you have it. Our government needs to help the poor rather than just throw money at all the junkies to keep them behaved.

reply to post by neo96


I think these people cannot get to where they are without a lack of morality and goodwill towards all. Maybe you do not like the concept of goodwill towards all, but I think that it is the root of the problems in the world...

You honestly come off as seeming to want total chaos. Are you sure you're not anarchist?

p.s. I wish you would use more punctuation marks.

Originally posted by neo96
Yeah well i am commenting since someone gets welfare they should pay that back so someone else can "get the same benefits " as they did.

What?

Have a problem with that?

Most likely.

I'm glad you know me so well bro. No I do not have a problem with that, as a matter of fact why do we need to give the worthless people welfare anyway? Help those who are willing to help themselves and screw the others. You know what our nations problem is though? It does just the opposite. Am I pi$$ed? Yes! I have every right to be.

reply to post by Bleeeeep


Nope people get out of life what they put in to it life is never going to be fair and things will never be handed to them they always cost someone else.

Most atrocities have been commited under the name of "good will".

reply to post by doomedtoday


So?

Playing the victim card and peddling the victim mentality?

Doesn't fly with me be mad be mad all you want still don't pay the bills or the governments but oh wait they can't pay their bills and neither can those who are on welfare.

reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux


I have to disagree again.

I think that most people are basically good, but all people are not basically good.

I think that saying, all people are not basically good, would very well explain why society is oppressed by a small portion of itself. 1%ers

reply to post by neo96


Did you put goodwill in quotations because you know its not true? jk jk

Why do you think we cannot have a society where the majority are able to live in a fair to all world? I think you have been told life is not fair too many times and it transpired in your mind to think that because life is not fair than it can not be any other way. If people would live by the moral value of goodwill towards all, life could be fair.

reply to post by Bleeeeep


Your insistence on surrendering your own personal power to some imagined 1% elite is your greatest undoing. Statistically speaking there is, of course, a 1% and a 99%, there is a 45% and a 55%, there is a 67% and 33%. So what? I am not responding to anyone else in this post but you.

It is far better to worry about your basic goodness, about the lens in which you view the world, and how that translates into your actions. That you can control. The rest is simply just statistics.

reply to post by Bleeeeep


Life has never been fair never will be fair some people are born with more to work with than others and I do not mean money.

I have severe problems with legislation of wealth and success and education and every other thing some people think others just can't live without.

It does not work for over 70 years in this country alone that has been a total failure.

reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux


Alright I'm not sure If I can say it accurately enough but here goes nothing...


I don't really think of some 1% thing as you are imagining. I am using 1% as a means to convey that the ruling elite are the ones who are the problem. I think that there are some very sinister people doing very sinister things, and that is whom I'm referring to as 1%ers.

As a matter of establishing a truer definition, I will say that the people I am referring to are not even in it for money. They explicitly want power over us and money is not even an issue to them.

reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux

Your insistence on surrendering your own personal power to some imagined 1% elite is your greatest undoing. Statistically speaking there is, of course, a 1% and a 99%, there is a 45% and a 55%, there is a 67% and 33%. So what? I am not responding to anyone else in this post but you.

Indeed and



They always cry about what the don't have and never once do they look at what they do have cause it could always be worse.

reply to post by neo96


Yeah yeah people are born with more mental capabilities that's all well and fine. And they should be allowed to use their minds just as a model uses their body.

The problem we're addressing though, is them using their mental capabilities to enslave us. I know you know that.

reply to post by doomedtoday


Although I didn't agree with some of what you said in the beginning...I remember another thread I was in recently , wish I could remember which one....we were discussing the same proposals...welfare for the sake of welfare is useless. It does not accomplish anything but continue the trend. Something should be expected in return....work for the check, there are alot of things that can be done or fixed, staffed or enhanced...on the job training to get them in the work force. And don't shoot the messenger but like Romney said...he would rather have people work and pay for daycare than have them languish at home...what good does that do to a person's spirit or outlook on life? So...yes I do agree with you...rehab for welfare is necessary for the good of all.

EDIT......sorry missed the part where you said wait to post...ADHD I guess....you lost my support on the second post..some help for state schools to residents I will agree with...but the gov should not be raising people.

Originally posted by Bleeeeep
reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux

 

Alright I'm not sure If I can say it accurately enough but here goes nothing...


I don't really think of some 1% thing as you are imagining. I am using 1% as a means to convey that the ruling elite are the ones who are the problem. I think that there are some very sinister people doing very sinister things, and that is whom I'm referring to as 1%ers.

As a matter of establishing a truer definition, I will say that the people I am referring to are not even in it for money. They explicitly want power over us and money is not even an issue to them.

How you just said it is precisely how I imagined you meant it. You speak of rulers outside yourself. You speak as if you aren't a part of the problem. You speak as if you could never ever be sinister and do very sinister things, so instead you place all your focus on "rulers" that don't measure you, but others.

Why worry about what kind of power others want when you have so much personal power yourself? If you truly understood your own power, then you could understand the great responsibility that comes with that.

So where is the welfare program for the welfare program for the welfare nation?

Oh that's right China is paying for it hey let's borrow more.

reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux


For your premise to be accurate I would have to sacrifice my ethics, and I do not play dice with the devil. That should be clear. They have the upper hand because the lengths they will go to I will not.

speaking of charity... someone just offered to "help me"... in exchange for kissing their butt.

well, they didn't say it exactly like that but they did offer to help me but have been hounding me today... in private they pretend to be nice and made all kinds of weird absolute statements like they are trying to sound convincing yet i have no idea what they are supposed to be convincing about... so I tried to set them straight about things they seem to be confused about and their response.

"it looks like you are not yet ready for help"...

Let me just say there are some people who OWE ME... minus any butt kissing and these are potentially big issues. it's not a matter of charity or me playing nice, in MUCH larger situations that what goes on in a forum, what makes some random poster on this forum think I would take a hand out by letting him annoy me all day?

too funny... all it reminds me of is that I need to sue somebody.

I don't kiss butt for hand outs. Sorry, no thanks. that's the kind of dirt that don't wash off.

Originally posted by Bleeeeep
reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux

 

For your premise to be accurate I would have to sacrifice my ethics, and I do not play dice with the devil. That should be clear. They have the upper hand because the lengths they will go to I will not.

Ah, but because my premise is accurate is precisely why I challenge you on your ethics! It is a shame you haven't recognized that, it only lends more credence to my challenge, and casts suspicion on your claim of being ethical. As I have said, I have no doubt you are ethical. What is in doubt is your sanity, awareness, and goodness.

You spend too much time measuring others goodness, and their ethics to convince me that your ethics are up to par.

Originally posted by Bleeeeep
reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux

 

For your premise to be accurate I would have to sacrifice my ethics, and I do not play dice with the devil. That should be clear. They have the upper hand because the lengths they will go to I will not.

yeah, there you go.

Like people who think that others are poor because they screwed up or they brought it on themselves, when actually... they just didn't bend over a barrel for things they will not tolerate/ will not do. corruption happens so much in life, it's almost everywhere you go... not selling your soul can really make things difficult for some. not saying all the successful have sold their souls, but some are just meant to be hallmarks of what happens if you try to do right in a world of wrong. it will happen more and more as time gos by and the greedy get more corrupt and desperate.