The Afghanistan Exit Will Humiliate The United States Worse Than Vietnam

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


You're about to be swimming in Imperialist Islam Germanicus. Start learning to say Alla'u'ahkbar.
no from what im seeing it looks more like

SIEG!,,,,WHOMEVER.

sERIOUSLY,,,NOT jEWISH ARE U?

I mean,, this Germanicas with all the books.

opps books,,,ohhh ohhhh.

Originally posted by BobAthome
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

You're about to be swimming in Imperialist Islam Germanicus. Start learning to say Alla'u'ahkbar.
no from what im seeing it looks more like

SIEG!,,,,WHOMEVER.

sERIOUSLY,,,NOT jEWISH ARE U?

I mean,, this Germanicas with all the books.

opps books,,,ohhh ohhhh.

edit on 26-5-2012 by BobAthome because: (no reason given)

Try Native American.

Second line.

Originally posted by michaelbrux
reply to post by chrismarco

 

wrong answer!

that's why I only come here to chastise people that don't know anything.

every one in this place is one of two things:

1. Liars.
2. they don't know anything.

For someone that thinks they know everything, you sure do ask a lot of questions. Its pretty ridiculous to post questions on a forum in the form of riddles and chastise those that don't answer them properly. Have an open mind please. I signed up for ATS to learn about different viewpoints and to bring something different to the table. Don't automatically assume that people are liars or they don't know anything. People can be more things than just these two. You keep posing questions, and I am not going to spoon feed you my answers to boost your ego.

To stay on topic:
I believe an exit from Afghanistan is exactly what this country needs. We are less secure now than we were after sept 11th because of blowback. If even one life is saved for our embarrassment and humiliation, then its worth it to me. Life is precious. We should have never gone into that country to begin with. We need to end these wars, and as soon as possible. We have killed many thousands of innocent civilians. We didn't have a good plan when we invaded, and the only thing we found there were abandoned caves. We waste billions of dollars a day of the peoples money to stay there, and it is all given to lockheed martin and haliburton so they can build more tanks for the military industrial complex. That is where our debt comes from. That is why we need a declaration of war from the congress. The congress that the people vote into their position of power. That is why we need to mind our own business and protect THIS country from harm. If we spread ourselves too thin, then it gives china and other countries opportunity to invade us on OUR SOIL. It scares the S*** out of me, and it needs to change.

Originally posted by Tazkven

Originally posted by Germanicus

Originally posted by Tazkven
reply to post by Germanicus

 

Speaking the truth isn't being rude. I stated exactly what you did through the course of this thread. The flow of THIS thread and how you flip flop IS being on topic but obviously not the conversation you wish to have.

Well it seems you have a problem with more than just this thread. You have made that clear. I will have any conversation you like. And I am conflicted to be honest. Like I said,just because you are a paranoid defensive scared American doesnt mean Im anti-american because I have the audacity to be critical of the United States Government. It affects me too. You would see that if you were not so scared and egocentric.

But you are being padantic at best. If you point out the specific problems I will include an apology in the thread for you.

Oh come on man

Your tactic of being aggressive, then backing off and trying to play the victim (while flinging insults, mind you) is a cool tactic but that stuff don't work on me. You and everyone else here knows your anti-USA and pro China and you know what, I really don't care.

You state things like ...

Originally posted by Germanicus
They are looking to move their military bullies primarily into the pacific.

I could quote tons more of your opinions mixed in with facts in the OP but I am sure you get the point. but also one second you say ...

Originally posted by Germanicus
I think Afghanistan will be better off when they get rid of the United states. Vietnam turned out fine.

Then turn around and say ...

Originally posted by Germanicus
The US almost has an obligation to protect these people now that they have involved themselves.

Geez, make up your mind

Not even getting into the comment of you saying who "WE" need to vote like your suddenly an American now, which by the way, cool move editing that (almost all of your) post(s)

But I will play your game ... if your conflicted then fine, stop telling us how doomed the US is and nit picking every mistake ever made (remind me of my girlfriend, sheesh) and how great China is and maybe we will believe how "conflicted" you are.

edit on 25-5-2012 by Tazkven because: added strike code, had to change that because someone is editing a lot of old posts to change what they say ...

So you do have special needs. I missed this reply cause like I said,you dont really interest me. Im glad I have made such an impact on you though. I still dont see you point out why you had to change something because of my deit. WTF did I change. I am dieing to know.

And you remind me of a dumb Ron Paul fan. They also cannot grasp the concept of not having blind moronic support. I think Ron Paul is the best guy out of a bad bunch but I dont support him blindly.

I dont contradict myself at all you weirdo. I do think that Afghanis will be better off when America leaves. I also feel that America has an obligation to the Afghanis they leave behind just like they did to the poor South Vietnamese that begged to get a lift on their helicopters. I also said that they should help relocate them didnt I. I can hold both opinions see. They do not conflist in any way shape or form.

When I say we I was talking about Western Governments. That is obvious. We have been dragged into your war genius.

And I wont stop telling you anything. America is doomed and China is the future.


And on the fact. It is fact that America is looking to move its focus to the Pacific. Fact fact fact fact fact. Read a damn newspaper. No opinion about it. Fact fact fact. Dont blame me because you are uninformed. If you have any more facts that you wrongly think are opinion and not fact please share.

Fact.

And again,you have not said a word on topic. Not one. If I was the kind of guy that complained we wouldnt still be trying to make you releaze how very wrong you seem to be about every word that you say.

You are a troll.

If you ever want to actually debate the topic I will be happy to destroy you.

And if you keep your avatar I will remember you

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


lonewolf19792000 ,,,well it could be Irish,,,,lol
not u,,
Germanicus Guy,,,,
nothing wrong with Jewish where your at,,is there?
i mean i hope its not spreading everywhere.
Sieg Heil stuff,,not Jewish,, never mind.

reply to post by Germanicus


It is fact that America is looking to move its focus to the Pacific.
well after the LIBERATION of the Philipenes,,u know Mcarther,,
and that Japan thing,,
ohh then the Korean,,
Vietnam,,
etc,,,,
America is looking to move its focus to the Pacific.???????
i dont get it?
move its focus to the Pacific.,,u mean give some Country over there a couple of BATTLESHIPS,,maybe,,
cause thats what i would call,,,
America is looking to move its focus to the Pacific.

other than that ,,ya ok,,,

gee

reply to post by Germanicus


I don't think humiliation will be the order of the day when the NATO International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) mission ends. Instead, over a decade of 'war', ostensibly to remove 'al-Qaeda' and prevent militant training camps from flourishing, have given the belligerent nations unique experiences in dealing with what Philip Bobbitt calls globally networked 'states of terror'. As the 'wars on terror' continue, evolving the definition of war itself and forcing nation states to re-think basic military strategies, the eventual exit from Afghanistan will perhaps herald an epoch moment in the fight against terrorism. One that sees traditional nation state warfare evolve into twenty-first century market state battle against those who view globalisation as the cause of all the worlds woe.

Originally posted by Germanicus
"Crack the Sky, Shake the Earth"

You guys are crazy. Withdrawing from Vietnam was a VICTORY just as withdrawing from Afghanistan will be a VICTORY.

We were humiliated, shamed, and embarrassed when we INVADED these harmless countries.

You have it all bass ackwards.

Originally posted by Germanicus

Originally posted by beezzer

Originally posted by Germanicus
I think the manner in which America leaves Afghanistan will be important for its future.

We don't agree on much, but this one little sentence said a mouthful.

S&F

Hey man. I bet we agree on more than we think

And yeah,it will set a tone. It will depend alot on whether we get Obama Romney or Paul what happens. They will all have very different ideas on how to do it exactly.

Different ideas--HA that's laughable- the owners of this country (and this world) will have their agenda pushed forward regardless who is the POTUS.

You are to smart of a person to be saying anything else man.

Originally posted by milominderbinder

Originally posted by Germanicus
"Crack the Sky, Shake the Earth"

You guys are crazy. Withdrawing from Vietnam was a VICTORY just as withdrawing from Afghanistan will be a VICTORY.

We were humiliated, shamed, and embarrassed when we INVADED these harmless countries.

You have it all bass ackwards.

... however, the terrorist genie is now out the bag in the form of a fluid, multi-dimensional ideology with market state-like apparatus. Afghanistan was home to well-equipped and efficient militant training camps that trained and turned-out tens of thousands of insurgents. Before 2001, Afghanistan was a central hub for militancy, now it is global whereby radicalization requires perhaps no more than a small group of friends latching on to extreme ideas and re-affirming each other over them.

Humilate??

Its really sad what goes on there and all the death it has caused.
Many contries and people gave their lives besides countless aid workers...

Are the aid workers humiliated???
Are the people who cared and donated humilated?

What about all the young children there and young girls who saw a glimps of life and others who cared?

8500 acid attacks on women in pakistan last year,,,the abuse there is 100 fold...

Most armys are ment to kill,,we fought them with our hands tied behind our backs!!!

There dark age relegion and corruption there is mexico 300 fold...
Throw acid in the face of a woman/poison 100 school girls and its ignored...!!!

And you say "Humilation"?????

In reality,,its not really a country,,,its a territory,,run by cartels and clerics from hell....


Going there is stepping 500 years into the past....still the same....
Throw in some cell phones and laptops and they became more violent....

As for humiliation,,,what about sickness and evil????
A cleric comes in and demands all women under 14 be snipped!!!
Or flogged if a 15 yr old tries to flee from being married to a 50 year old scum bag???

We can point fingers and all contruies do wrong but there is commom scense...

As you call it humiliation,,,I call it sad.....

Most other Arab countries despise them,ignore them,,,IRAN hates the drugs that come from there,,,,so does Russia!!

Life goes on,,,but soon the whole of the world will have to deal whith them as well as somalia....
Like it or not.....

reply to post by MollyMN


While you are correct in your observations, the growing gulf between rich and poor, not to mention the technology haves and have nots will be fundamental reasons to seeing more people radicalize and reign terror on others. The globalization of terror has perhaps only just begun.

Originally posted by LarryLove

Originally posted by milominderbinder

Originally posted by Germanicus
"Crack the Sky, Shake the Earth"

You guys are crazy. Withdrawing from Vietnam was a VICTORY just as withdrawing from Afghanistan will be a VICTORY.

We were humiliated, shamed, and embarrassed when we INVADED these harmless countries.

You have it all bass ackwards.

... however, the terrorist genie is now out the bag in the form of a fluid, multi-dimensional ideology with market state-like apparatus. Afghanistan was home to well-equipped and efficient militant training camps that trained and turned-out tens of thousands of insurgents. Before 2001, Afghanistan was a central hub for militancy, now it is global whereby radicalization requires perhaps no more than a small group of friends latching on to extreme ideas and re-affirming each other over them.

Once again. You're nuts if you think "terrorists" ever lived in Afghanistan. The "terrorists" are all over at Langley.

I am ashamed of my people´s ignorance. I live to teach them what little I know, all the while hoping for a better teacher than I for them and myself.

I am ashamed of my countries war on non Americans. I strive to accept a world citizenship, all the while shouting over louder voices of nationalism via a glorious leader or whatever fanatical nut over there or slick devil over here we are being programmed into loving.

I am ashamed of my peoples poverty. I see our people hungry and wanting.....I wish I could give them the sustenance to prosper. I try and reward their hard work with more than the merit it inherently has already.

I am ashamed of my peoples lack of integrity when they achieve public office. I try and encourage people to stay civilized in the face of uncivilized men in charge. They have good manners and bad ways. I worry about our future.

I am ashamed of the death imposed on our good name. I am ashamed the necessary evil is not the lesser evil necessary. I try and live true. I will F-ing kill you, but only if I fail you as a warrior.

I am ashamed of our wrong but proud of our virtue. I´m tired of the lies. I want the truth of all to be on the tongues of all men women and children. I want our future to be brimming with the best of us.

I want to celebrate the good of men´s hearts. I am so hungry for the unity of mankind. I want so badly for our people´s to not just survive, but to thrive.

I want to wake up one morning and look forward to the wonder of my species. The changes, the growth, the growing bond.

I am so badly wanting to see our species as titans that I will head endlessly but not aimlessly. I will not give up on mankind. I will not give up on my people. There is still time to change. We should not be so careless with our own people´s lives, no matter how far removed.

We need not be disgraced so cavalierly by a handful of mad men. This is their shame and our burden. We should strive to live with honor as a people. We should look to our own lives as the channels of change. We must become the change first, and accept the truth second.

We are as one. We WILL overcome, we will become the human species we are destined to be. Our fate will not be decided, it already has been decided. We can either live in fear and cowardice, or with confidence and honor.

Until we end our wars upon men, will not begin to fight for our claim to survival. We are like a hatchling and the earth is its egg. We hang precariously on the edge of "safety" on our little nest here.

We must be careful not to roll off into oblivion trying to hatch all at once. We must get accustomed to our new capabilities. We are still getting used to our world as it is, all the while it is changing in new and dynamic ways every day.

It is like the earth is a puzzle box of people and ways. We all recognize a common source but question its relevance to us individually as a people. We also find a bond with people in other "groups" in so much as interconnectedness goes and non-zero-sumness is concerned.

There is no shame in not knowing. Shame is something learned, so by not knowing something you also know not its shame.

I look everyone I meet in the eye and am on the level with them. I do so as an American, New Yorker, person, Yankee fan, Trekkie, whatever. However I meet you I will be what I think is the best representation I can offer of what is noble in our people.

We as Americans are down to earth people. Eventually all the power necessary for good to overcome will end up in the right hands. We may have a rough patch ahead but ultimately we will emerge stronger.

Invade us, strike us down, steal our wealth, persecute our people and cast us down into misery. We can take it as well as dish it out. It may come to that because of what evil has done here on earth.

P.S.
You know what, this "Age if Wars" is too big to cover up considering the grasp of time. Give the world 30-40 more years and every "secret" of our day will be completely unraveled or begun to. The order of the day has sealed its fate. Too much too soon. Eternal men plan for eternity and the transcendence of their species. Temporal men plan for a few thousand years in their dreams, a few hundred years in their words, and a few decades in reality and all for a "one" in the name of all.

Eternal men exist for the all in the name of "one". Humans will stop killing humans some day.

we are as one.



Fear nothing and no one so as to have no shame for your humanity.

reply to post by milominderbinder


Would you not concede that perhaps the CIA (although involved past and present in many nefarious activities) isn't the world's sole provider of terrorism as so often purported by many on this site? And before you get into the whole 'al-Qaeda' was a CIA creation, there has never been a shred of credible evidence to suggest or even hint a truth towards confirming this well-pedaled conspiracy.

Originally posted by michaelbrux
reply to post by chrismarco

 

wrong answer!

that's why I only come here to chastise people that don't know anything.

every one in this place is one of two things:

1. Liars.
2. they don't know anything.

Does your house open up like a clam shell so you can fit your head inside it?

Please lighten up on the rest of us who share this website, country, and planet with you. I realize it is not mandatory, but it would be a really nice gesture if you were to do that.

Originally posted by milominderbinder

Originally posted by Germanicus
"Crack the Sky, Shake the Earth"

You guys are crazy. Withdrawing from Vietnam was a VICTORY just as withdrawing from Afghanistan will be a VICTORY.

We were humiliated, shamed, and embarrassed when we INVADED these harmless countries.

You have it all bass ackwards.

It would indeed be a victory for the American people. The only folks who should consider it a humiliating defeat are the ones who sell and profit from manufacturing and distributing death and misery.

The way to help the people of Afghanistan is to arm the woman, and other secularists. Over the last 11 years we could have achieved a friendly government, that would dominate the rest of the country. But you don't do it with a centralized government (headed by a presidential Drug Dealer!) instead you do it by embracing the devolvement of power to those regions which are friendly.

The way to help the people of Afghanistan is to arm the woman, and other secularists. Over the last 11 years we could have achieved a friendly government, that would dominate the rest of the country. But you don't do it with a centralized government (headed by a presidential Drug Dealer!) instead you do it by embracing the devolvement of power to those regions which are friendly.

The worrying thing is, I think extremism will flourish once America pulls out of Afghanistan, forces went in to root out terrorism (supposedly) but in doing so in a whole new wave of Al-Qaeda have been encouraged to form on the basis that: 'the invasive western forces are our enemy'. Worst of all i think that once the majority of troops leave it will be all too easy for Al-Qaeda to recruit and preach and with the virtually unlimited flow from the Pakistan border (and obvious support for Al-Qaeda in the Pakistani gov.) there's no real way of stopping it.... I don't see how there can be a good course of action now.

I think the best thing to have done would have been to have never have invaded Afghan. in the first place. The soviets proved that in the 80s.