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Are these shorts too short? Foreigners told to cover up in UAE (A follow up to NJ event)

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posted on May, 25 2012 @ 08:11 AM
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Yesterday, I stumbled across an article that I shared with ATS. Here is the thread I posted: Muslim Woman Asked to Remove Head Scarf in New Jersey Mall

I was very surprised at the amount of attention the article received. Apparently its a hot button topic right now.

So when I found this article I decided to share it with ATS, because it shows another side of the issue.


At 23, Asma Al Muhairi has never considered herself a social activist. But a shopping trip to a Dubai mall left her so irate that she started a campaign against revealing clothing and has sparked a major debate in the United Arab Emirates.

Al Muhairi's campaign to persuade expats and tourists to dress more modestly began after she and her friend Hanan Al Rayes saw a young woman in shorts that they considered left little to the imagination.

She said many people in Dubai Mall were looking at the woman, but no one did anything, so she approached security guards and threatened to call the police.


So this young woman, Asma Al Muhairi, is campaigning to require women dress more modestly in Abu Dhabi. To be fair to her, she never intended to spearhead a campaign, it happened over some remarks she made on Twitter.

The article continues with


The campaign has started a debate on how closely foreigners should follow local customs while in the United Arab Emirates, and just what standards of dress are acceptable. "But seriously, I think it is really important for expats and tourists to understand the norms of the society they are in, so that is why we, through our embassies in Dubai and Abu Dhabi work very closely with tour operators, local schools, and the airlines, in particular Emirates and Etihad, to run a campaign called Know Before You Go."


So apparently the country officials are working with airlines, schools, and tour operators to advise visitors on local custom regarding dress.




Most Emirati women wear abayas -- long robes that cover the whole body -- but the expectation for foreigners is more relaxed. The government advises visitors to respect local culture by avoiding "excessively revealing" clothes in public places.

So although the standarad for Emirati women is the abayaa, foreigners are allowed to be more relaxed in their dress. I find that very refreshing.




"We should give a deadline -- from a certain date, everyone will know that if they wear certain kind of dress, the mall won't let them in, or maybe give them a fine. Someone suggested giving them something to cover themselves."


I've thought long and hard over the issue of veiling in the US (and in other parts of the world). As a Western woman, I cannot fathom living my life in an abayaa or the more relaxed versions. I find the entire idea of veiling ridiculous, but that's just me.

However, if I were to travel to a country that requires "modest" dress in a woman, then I would dress modestly. I would never wear an abayaa, but that's not what the article is requesting. I believe that visitors should understand the local customs with regards to everything, not just dress. If you don't want to follow the customs, then don't go. I guess what I'm trying to say is its important to be respectful whenever you are a guest in a country.

Now, how does this tie-in with yesterday's article about the NJ woman who was asked to remove her veil? I read a lot of comments that the veil could be a potential security risk....but I don't buy it. As one poster stated, the baggy pants and oversized clothing a lot of today's youth wear would just as easily conceal a bomb or weapon. Heck, if a person really wants to cause damage, nothing is going to stand in their way.

Personally, I have no problem with women wearing simple veils, head scarves, etc. That is part of their custom, and it has no impact on me. I've seen hundreds of Indian women, Middle Eastern women, etc in traditional dress (just an aside....Indian women are the most beautiful in the world and I LOVE the sari) and there's nothing wrong with that.

I do draw the line at the abayaa, though. Its not logical at all, but I can't help but feel that the abayaa is almost a prison. Its only my opinion, and I'd love to hear from women who do wear an abayaa and how they feel about it.

Thoughts, ATS?




posted on May, 25 2012 @ 08:21 AM
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reply to post by smyleegrl
 
It's their country. They can dictate anything they want.

It just goes to show how important freedom actually is. I want the distiction made. In america, you can dress how you choose.

In Abu Dhabi?

Not so much.



posted on May, 25 2012 @ 08:25 AM
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I hope she knows it should be BOTH ways. If SHE comes to America, she should be fined if not dressing like women do here.



posted on May, 25 2012 @ 08:26 AM
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Someone post the pic. I bet iza noice



posted on May, 25 2012 @ 08:27 AM
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Originally posted by NowanKenubi
I hope she knows it should be BOTH ways. If SHE comes to America, she should be fined if not dressing like women do here.


But which standard of dress are we to hold her to? Booty shorts and a halter top that leaves little to the imagination? I wouldn't wear that, and I know a lot of other women who wouldn't either.



posted on May, 25 2012 @ 08:27 AM
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I work in a gas station and women come in in the veil things all the time, no big deal.

Nobody should be allowed to dictate who wears what. Here in new York women can walk around topless anywhere a man can, suppose if she came here she would take her adabi thing off?



posted on May, 25 2012 @ 08:36 AM
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Originally posted by NowanKenubi
I hope she knows it should be BOTH ways. If SHE comes to America, she should be fined if not dressing like women do here.

Some American women dress in a very conservative fashion. Some leave very little to the imagination. The dress style of America would be "you are free to dress how you like" and so she wouldn't have any problem if she came to America. Where she might have a problem, is when she enters banks with her face covered, I read some where there were new laws about that now.

I wouldn't go to such an uptight religious country anyway. Not in a billion years.



posted on May, 25 2012 @ 08:38 AM
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reply to post by beezzer
 


But how come when it's OUR society, it's a moral crime to ask for the same?

Bah humbug double standards... They get to bake their halal cake and eat it too.

We're evil oppressing western devils if we find offensive the treatment of their women. Even if it's by proxy and influenced by locals who happen to embrace this religion.

Can we either have what is good for the goose is good for the gander, or can we stop making excuses for backward practices that basically say "You are no good and I will not be a part of whatever society I choose to live within, you are evil and I will protest this by wearing my ninja outfit."

And that is what a lot of it is. I knew a muslim girl whom I studied with. She did not wear a niqab. In class one day, the topic of racism was raised. She felt offended and from that day on she wore a niqab.

Not because she was participating in an open discussion or practicing her right to wear what she wants. She wanted to say "Sod you westerners... if you dare talk about islam in anything other than a positive light, I will become all that and more." -- edited to clarify.

It was direct opposition to the question, should women be forced to wear a veil. -- edited to clarify.

Ahh well, when the day comes, it won't be myself that feels the blame.....



edit on 25-5-2012 by mainidh because: (no reason given)

edit on 25-5-2012 by mainidh because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 25 2012 @ 08:42 AM
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On returning from the mall, Al Muhairi discussed the issue with Al Rayes and wrote a message on Twitter, saying "till when will we keep seeing people going against our rules and showing indecent dresses?"


Faceless hypocrites. This stupid cow forgets what all arabs and muslims from her country and neighbouring one do in western countries. So it's ok for the females (and males too for that matter) to respect local customs and tradition in Arabia, but when arabs and muslims come to Europe and North America, they don't care much about the above and wanna impose their customs and traditions. And if their asked not to do that, is called racism and discriminations. Makes me sick to the stomach. Is fine for a female westerner to change her habits and dressing code in muslim countries but is not ok for ninjas with those burqas and face covering veils to change and adapt to western culture. You know what I call this? Pure B.S., hypocrisy and double standard. Let's see what will happen if while in the mall I see one arab female dressed in the way I described above (happened so many times and scared the crap out of my kids giving them nightmares for over a week) and I walk to a security guard or even a cop asking them to be removed because is disturbing my sight, my culture, customs, my values and all the morals I stand for. I'm ok to be tolerant, welcomed and hospitable but not when is not reciprocal. Give a little, get a little...



posted on May, 25 2012 @ 08:45 AM
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reply to post by mainidh
 
That's what makes a truely free society so special.

I could care less what another person/country does. The want to oppress, they want to dictate? Let 'em.

Freedom MEANS something to us. It's appreciated and honoured here.

As for your example of the young lady. If a debate came up against catholics, I'd get squirrely and show up wearing a cross!



posted on May, 25 2012 @ 08:47 AM
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Originally posted by Telos

On returning from the mall, Al Muhairi discussed the issue with Al Rayes and wrote a message on Twitter, saying "till when will we keep seeing people going against our rules and showing indecent dresses?"


Faceless hypocrites. This stupid cow forgets what all arabs and muslims from her country and neighbouring one do in western countries. So it's ok for the females (and males too for that matter) to respect local customs and tradition in Arabia, but when arabs and muslims come to Europe and North America, they don't care much about the above and wanna impose their customs and traditions. And if their asked not to do that, is called racism and discriminations. Makes me sick to the stomach. Is fine for a female westerner to change her habits and dressing code in muslim countries but is not ok for ninjas with those burqas and face covering veils to change and adapt to western culture. You know what I call this? Pure B.S., hypocrisy and double standard. Let's see what will happen if while in the mall I see one arab female dressed in the way I described above (happened so many times and scared the crap out of my kids giving them nightmares for over a week) and I walk to a security guard or even a cop asking them to be removed because is disturbing my sight, my culture, customs, my values and all the morals I stand for. I'm ok to be tolerant, welcomed and hospitable but not when is not reciprocal. Give a little, get a little...


While I might agree with your sentiments, I couldn't quite make it past the "stupid cow" and "ninjas with burqas" comments.



posted on May, 25 2012 @ 08:51 AM
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posted on May, 25 2012 @ 09:09 AM
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There's a story i heard that happened in the UK. a woman collected porcelain pigs, and had been collecting them her entire life, they where her pride and joy. She lived near a mosque and the congregation was highly offended that she had pigs in her front window. They complained to the police that this was offensive and the the police confiscated her pigs.

As some previous posters have stated. What's good for the goose is good for the gander!

How would this lady feel in abu dhabi if this women moved to her country and was outraged that she had a religious symbol on her door and demanded it was moved?

I agree that when your in the country you respect the customs ...



posted on May, 25 2012 @ 09:16 AM
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Originally posted by smyleegrl

Originally posted by Telos

On returning from the mall, Al Muhairi discussed the issue with Al Rayes and wrote a message on Twitter, saying "till when will we keep seeing people going against our rules and showing indecent dresses?"


Faceless hypocrites. This stupid cow forgets what all arabs and muslims from her country and neighbouring one do in western countries. So it's ok for the females (and males too for that matter) to respect local customs and tradition in Arabia, but when arabs and muslims come to Europe and North America, they don't care much about the above and wanna impose their customs and traditions. And if their asked not to do that, is called racism and discriminations. Makes me sick to the stomach. Is fine for a female westerner to change her habits and dressing code in muslim countries but is not ok for ninjas with those burqas and face covering veils to change and adapt to western culture. You know what I call this? Pure B.S., hypocrisy and double standard. Let's see what will happen if while in the mall I see one arab female dressed in the way I described above (happened so many times and scared the crap out of my kids giving them nightmares for over a week) and I walk to a security guard or even a cop asking them to be removed because is disturbing my sight, my culture, customs, my values and all the morals I stand for. I'm ok to be tolerant, welcomed and hospitable but not when is not reciprocal. Give a little, get a little...


While I might agree with your sentiments, I couldn't quite make it past the "stupid cow" and "ninjas with burqas" comments.


You don't have to. I didn't write my comment for you to sympathise, approve or disapprove. Is called free speech and freedom of expression. I don't really care much (sorry if it sounds harsh) if someone likes it or not. If we start hiding what we think and feel about certain issues then we're just shackling ourself's right to voice personal opinions. In other words, that's what makes us different from sheep.



posted on May, 25 2012 @ 09:17 AM
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Originally posted by Scaledown
There's a story i heard that happened in the UK. a woman collected porcelain pigs, and had been collecting them her entire life, they where her pride and joy. She lived near a mosque and the congregation was highly offended that she had pigs in her front window. They complained to the police that this was offensive and the the police confiscated her pigs.

As some previous posters have stated. What's good for the goose is good for the gander!

How would this lady feel in abu dhabi if this women moved to her country and was outraged that she had a religious symbol on her door and demanded it was moved?

I agree that when your in the country you respect the customs ...



That is just awful about the pigs! Did the police confinscate all of her pigs, or just the ones in the window? Was there a huge outcry about it?



posted on May, 25 2012 @ 09:25 AM
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ok, found an article, seems the women was stiring up trouble with a sign in her window next to the pigs in arabic.


Independent china pigs

Bad example i guess, but i still stand by my post that both sides must respect the others customs!
edit on 25-5-2012 by Scaledown because: linkage



posted on May, 25 2012 @ 09:26 AM
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Originally posted by Telos

Originally posted by smyleegrl

Originally posted by Telos

On returning from the mall, Al Muhairi discussed the issue with Al Rayes and wrote a message on Twitter, saying "till when will we keep seeing people going against our rules and showing indecent dresses?"


Faceless hypocrites. This stupid cow forgets what all arabs and muslims from her country and neighbouring one do in western countries. So it's ok for the females (and males too for that matter) to respect local customs and tradition in Arabia, but when arabs and muslims come to Europe and North America, they don't care much about the above and wanna impose their customs and traditions. And if their asked not to do that, is called racism and discriminations. Makes me sick to the stomach. Is fine for a female westerner to change her habits and dressing code in muslim countries but is not ok for ninjas with those burqas and face covering veils to change and adapt to western culture. You know what I call this? Pure B.S., hypocrisy and double standard. Let's see what will happen if while in the mall I see one arab female dressed in the way I described above (happened so many times and scared the crap out of my kids giving them nightmares for over a week) and I walk to a security guard or even a cop asking them to be removed because is disturbing my sight, my culture, customs, my values and all the morals I stand for. I'm ok to be tolerant, welcomed and hospitable but not when is not reciprocal. Give a little, get a little...


While I might agree with your sentiments, I couldn't quite make it past the "stupid cow" and "ninjas with burqas" comments.


You don't have to. I didn't write my comment for you to sympathise, approve or disapprove. Is called free speech and freedom of expression. I don't really care much (sorry if it sounds harsh) if someone likes it or not. If we start hiding what we think and feel about certain issues then we're just shackling ourself's right to voice personal opinions. In other words, that's what makes us different from sheep.


You are right, you have freedom of speech and expression.

However, someone is more likely to consider your arguments if they are presented in a less-insulting manner. At least, that's what I've discovered over the years.

But to each his own.



posted on May, 25 2012 @ 09:28 AM
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Originally posted by Scaledown
There's a story i heard that happened in the UK. a woman collected porcelain pigs, and had been collecting them her entire life, they where her pride and joy. She lived near a mosque and the congregation was highly offended that she had pigs in her front window. They complained to the police that this was offensive and the the police confiscated her pigs.

As some previous posters have stated. What's good for the goose is good for the gander!

How would this lady feel in abu dhabi if this women moved to her country and was outraged that she had a religious symbol on her door and demanded it was moved?

I agree that when your in the country you respect the customs ...



in my opinion, england is going to have more problems in the future as more and more of the general population becomes muslim. the case above illustrates how muslims will keep pushing their religous agenda until the brits are living under islamic law. they don't care about your freedom, or the western cultue, remember that they are taught from a very early age that anyone that is not muslim are desciples of the devil and are evil.



posted on May, 25 2012 @ 09:31 AM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on May, 25 2012 @ 09:35 AM
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Just to say, I'm not asking for women to dress as easy girls.

I just can't stand anymore to see that WE have to comply to their rules in their country, and that WE have to comply to their desire in OUR own country.

There is a Jewish congregation that installed their quarters just in front of an all women's gym with enormous bay windows. The gym was there many years before the congregation, yet, they sued the gym and wanted to force them to put black and opaque curtains so they wouldn't be offended by seeing sweaty women in tight clothes.

They were denied, gladly. They simply had to go in a place facing a wall or with no windows if they didn't want to see anyone.

And then, we are told WE should be reasonable...



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