Fibonacci Numbers, Phi, and the Venus/Earth Relation

reply to post by ErroneousDylan


Thank you so much! I was talking about this in the Eye of Ra math system thread. I was hoping somone who was a little less lazy then me would make a thread like this.

It always seems that a thread pops up on ATS when I start thinking about something

hope this works!
tool with fiboncci sequence

reply to post by ErroneousDylan


Dude -- do a google search of "rose line orbital pattern of Venus"

Here's what you get:

Uncovering the Ancient Science of Sacred Spaces | Reality Sandwich www.realitysandwich.com/uncovering_ancient_science_sacred_spaces 2 days ago – The "rose line" orbital pattern of Venus. This article is based on The Venus Blueprint: Uncovering the Ancient Science of Sacred Spaces, now ...

The Roseline of Venus | Social, Astronomy, Mathematics ... www.interferencetheory.com › Idea Blog Jun 16, 2010 – The numbers 5, 8 and 13 found in the Venus-Earth orbital pattern are ... meaning “rose line”), offering the world yet another temple to Venus ...

Uncovering the Ancient Science of Sacred Spaces - +#KronosNyne ... friendfeed.com/.../uncovering-ancient-science-of-sacred-spaces 2 days ago – Figure 1. The "rose line" orbital pattern of Venus. In ancient times, astronomers tracked the orbit of Venus very closely, discovering that it traced ...

"The Venus Blueprint", page 1 www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread840910/pg1 12 posts - 6 authors - May 16 He holds a five-line musical staff, pointing to B with his right hand and ... When I first learned that Venus traces an orbital rose pattern in the sky ...

The first ten hits are all Richard Merrick -- with the fifth one as an ATS thread based on Richard Merrick

So you need to credit Richard Merrick in your OP or else it's plagiarism.

As for the accuracy of your OP -- I've already debunked Richard Merrick so no point in repeating myself.

Again the claim of a Perfect Fifth relation to the Golden Ratio is bunk. Music has no need for logarithms - those are just a contrived Western measurement applied to music. Nothing inherent or natural about the Golden Ratio -- it's just Freemasonic propaganda.

It should also be noted that the frequency wave created by the orbit around the Sun by Earth and the frequency wave of the rotation of Venus's day create a harmonic interval ratio of 3:2 (a Fibonacci sequnce). This pure harmonic interval creates a perfect fifth in the musical scale.

O.K. that's in your OP.

That's directly from Richard Merrick. If you haven't heard of him then you need to know he's already made this claim in regards to the pentagram orbit of Venus and the Earth.


Now consider this recent ATS thread on Richard Merrick -- it has the same image you posted in your OP

Still never heard of him? From that ATS thread -- a quote of Richard Merrick:

When I first learned that Venus traces an orbital rose pattern in the sky over eight years, I knew it must be due to the physics of resonance at work in the formation of the early solar system. Studying the spacing of the orbits, I found that a calm damping region in the solar heliosphere exists between Earth and Venus and that it corresponds to a logarithmic golden mean. Observing the same phenomena in the harmonic formation of a vibrating string, it is this damping region that appears to be responsible for the rose star orbital pattern of Venus. In fact, this same rose star can be reproduced by vibrating a plate of sand or a cup of water using a musical 3:2 "perfect fifth" ratio.

O.K. I'll put things into perspective for you -- here's another forum thread started with the same claim as you -- Venus Earth orbit pentagram as perfect fifth music ratio -- april 2012

I have been particularly drawn to the deep significance of the Venus Transit this year and would like to share some of my insights. What touches me the most is the beauty and harmony of the planetary orbits of Venus and Earth. Over 8 years, Venus forms 5 conjunctions with the Sun which forms a perfect pentagram in the zodiac. This harmony of motion creates patterns which contain golden mean ratios and also correspond to the perfect 5th in music, which is the most perfect harmonic interval.

Now a perfectly honest question by a reader is where did they get that information. I'm posing the same question to you.

My claim is that the source is Richard Merrick. He has a facebook page, a book and his own website all based on a music theory model using the Golden Ratio and then a second book applying that music theory model to Venus. The heart of his model is how the Perfect Fifth aligns with the Golden Ratio and it's a bunk claim as I've pointed out. So applying it to Venus is also a bunk claim and it's not even your own bunk claim.

The Love of Venus 02/08/09 11:47 Filed in: Social | Astronomy | Art | Physics It is an astronomical fact that Venus traces a near perfect pentagram in the Earth's sky every eight years. As a planetary harmony, Venus rotates slowly in the opposite direction to the Earth (and most other planets) with its day two-thirds of an Earth year - the same 3:2 proportion of a musical perfect 5th. Thus, as eight Earth years equal thirteen Venus years, Venus always faces Earth in the same position five times to trace a near perfect pentagram in space. The orbital ratio 13:8, equal to the Fibonacci number 1.625, is again close to the golden ratio of 1.618033... and accounts for the pentagonal 'star' geometry and its importance in the ancient mystery schools.

From Richard Merrick's website -- 2009 -- so clearly this is the original source

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by ErroneousDylan

 

Although your posts are well thought out...there is an issue with the calculations...you see...the Earth as well as Venus' Solar Orbits are slowing down as well as the size of the Planets as well as the Suns size are changing.

Also...both Earth and Venusian axis wobbles change both the eliptical orbit as well s how earths axis tilts toward the Sun. Our Sun will eventually grow in diameter to an extent as it converts the majority of it's Hydrogen into Helium and the Sun's diameter will eventually grow to encompass all the inner planets and all the way past Mars.

So your Numerology as well as Geometric Constants are not constant and they will change...even now they are not exact as you are using an approximation. But it is still interesting. Split Infinity

That is perfectly okay with me. Nothing wrong with change. I never exclaimed that these were concrete absolutes. Everything in life changes and I wouldn't expect them to stay the same. Thank you for your words.

Originally posted by Renegade2283
reply to post by ErroneousDylan

 

Thank you so much! I was talking about this in the Eye of Ra math system thread. I was hoping somone who was a little less lazy then me would make a thread like this.

It always seems that a thread pops up on ATS when I start thinking about something

Thank you for your kinds words. I am glad you enjoyed the thread.

Originally posted by fulllotusqigong
Again the claim of a Perfect Fifth relation to the Golden Ratio is bunk. Music has no need for logarithms - those are just a contrived Western measurement applied to music. Nothing inherent or natural about the Golden Ratio -- it's just Freemasonic propaganda.

Stop right there. You and OccamAssassin seem to be making this mistake over and over again. I never said a Perfect Fifth was a golden ratio. I said that the ratio 3:2 or 2:3 (using just intonation) follows the sequence of numbers in the Fibonacci series. EVIDENCE OF THIS: 0, 1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8,... (1:1:2:3:5:8:...)

O.K. that's in your OP.

That's directly from Richard Merrick. If you haven't heard of him then you need to know he's already made this claim in regards to the pentagram orbit of Venus and the Earth.

It is not directly from Richard Merrick. I have no clue who this man is and they are my own words. If by some divine coincidence we accidentally wrote the exact same thing (and I mean with the exact paragraph, not just the meaning) then I apologize. However, unless you can quote me EXACTLY what I wrote from this person then it is not DIRECT. You are making outlandish claims.

Now a perfectly honest question by a reader is where did they get that information. I'm posing the same question to you.

My claim is that the source is Richard Merrick. He has a facebook page, a book and his own website all based on a music theory model using the Golden Ratio and then a second book applying that music theory model to Venus. The heart of his model is how the Perfect Fifth aligns with the Golden Ratio and it's a bunk claim as I've pointed out. So applying it to Venus is also a bunk claim and it's not even your own bunk claim.

I have no clue were others and this Richard Merrick are getting their information. I'm getting my information from the observed FACT of orbital resonance. Pythagoras and Plato knew about orbital harmonic resonance long before this Richard Merrick existed with their Musica universalis (Music of the Spheres). Surely, you can take this up with them. I can list you plenty of other sites and articles that make this statement that are in no-shape-or-form related to this Richard Merrick.

If you wish to discuss the issues posted in my OP, do so. Any comments regarding the irrelevant "Richard Merrick" will be ignored.

Originally posted by reficul

hope this works!
tool with fiboncci sequence

Thanks a lot for that! Very nice.

reply to post by ErroneousDylan


Just noticed your signiture and wanted to give a reply

010011100110111101110100001000000110000100100000011101110110000101110011011101000110010100100000011011110110011000100000011101000110100101101101011001 010010110000100000011000010010000001100111011100100110010101100001011101000010000001100101011110000110010101110010011000110110100101110011011001010010 000001100110011011110111001000100000011101000110100001100101001000000110110101101001011011100110010000100001

reply to post by PurpleChiten


010101010110111001101100011001010111001101110011001000000111100101101111011101010010000001101000011000010111000001110000011001010110111000100000011101 000110111100100000011000100110010100100000011011110111000001100101011100100110000101110100011010010110111001100111001000000110100101101110001000000111 001101110101011100100110011101100101011100100111100100100000011000010111010000100000011101000110100001100101001000000111010001101001011011010110010100 100001

Originally posted by ErroneousDylan
reply to post by PurpleChiten

 

010101010110111001101100011001010111001101110011001000000111100101101111011101010010000001101000011000010111000001110000011001010110111000100000011101 000110111100100000011000100110010100100000011011110111000001100101011100100110000101110100011010010110111001100111001000000110100101101110001000000111 001101110101011100100110011101100101011100100111100100100000011000010111010000100000011101000110100001100101001000000111010001101001011011010110010100 100001

LOL!!! very good!

There are only 10 types of people in the world today, those who understand binary and those who don't

reply to post by ErroneousDylan


Thanks so much for the thread! That ratio and its ubiquity in our universe (from microcosm to macrocosm) never ceases to amaze me. One of my favorite, most comprehensive resources on all things "sacred geometry" (including heavy coverage of the Fibonacci Sequence/Golden Ratio) is this book:

The Beginner's Guide to Constructing the Universe
www.amazon.com...

You can also find it in full online here (but I do recommend the purchase...it's cheap, nice to have at hand, and the author deserves it for the incredible work):

issuu.com...

Speaking of the author, here's an awesome video of him explaining Egyptian mathematics (also relevant to your previous binary post):



As for Occamassassin, in the immortal words of Louis Armstrong, "There are some people that if they don't know, you can't tell them."

01001000 01001001 00100000 01000111 01010101 01011001 01010011 00101100 00001101 00001010 01001001 00100000 01001101 01000001 01011001 00100000 01001110 01001111 01010100 00100000 01000010 01000101 00100000 01001001 01001110 00100000 01010100 01001000 01000101 00100000 01001101 01000001 01000111 01001001 01000011 01000001 01001100 00100000 00110001 00110000 00100000 01000010 01010101 01010100 00100000 01001001 00100000 01000011 01000001 01001110 00100000 01010100 01001000 01001001 01001110 01001011 00100000 01001100 01000001 01010100 01000101 01010010 01000001 01001100 01001100 01011001 00100000 01000001 01001110 01000100 00100000 01000010 01001111 01011001 00100000 01001001 01010011 00100000 01010100 01001000 01000101 00100000 01001001 01001110 01010100 01000101 01010010 01001110 01000101 01010100 00100000 01010101 01010011 01000101 01000110 01010101 01001100 01001100 00100000 01001100 01001111 01001100

In the interests of full disclosure here is the link for deciphering above.
home.paulschou.net...

reply to post by deometer


Oh more mind controlled CIA New Age Freemasonic bunk -- Were the Fibonacci Series and the Golden Section Known in Ancient Egypt? Corinna Rossi, Christopher A. Tout

There was no Golden Ratio in Egyptian mathematics. That's an error of Western projection onto a nonwestern culture.

Abstract The Fibonacci series and the Golden Section have often been used to explain the proportions of ancient Egyptian art and architecture. All such theories, however, are based on our modern mathematical system. They have never been examined in the realm of ancient Egyptian mathematics as we understand it from studying the surviving mathematical sources. This article analyses the compatibility of the Fibonacci series with ancient Egyptian mathematics and suggests how an ancient scribe could have handled it. The conclusion is that concepts such as φ and the convergence to φ have little in common with the surviving ancient Egyptian mathematical documents and that they are quite far from the ancient Egyptian mentality. © 2002 Elsevier Science (USA). La serie di Fibonacci e la Sezione Aurea sono state spesso utilizzate per spiegare le proporzioni nell'arte e nell'architettura dell'antico Egitto. Tali teorie, tuttavia, sono basate sul nostro sistema matematico moderno, e non sono mai state esaminate nel contesto di ciò che è sopravvissuto della matematica Egizia. Questo articolo analizza la compatibilità della serie di Fibonacci con la matematica Egizia e suggerisce un modo in cui un antico scriba potrebbe averla gestita. La conclusione è che concetti come φ e la convergenza a φ hanno poco in comune con gli antichi documenti matematici, e sono assolutamente distanti dalla mentalità Egizia. © 2002 Elsevier Science (USA).

In the interest of deprogramming the CIA mind controlled New Age masses please listen to this interview with Prince and Picknett on the Stargate Conspiracy -- the Egyptology Golden Ratio Freemasonry b.s. is CIA propaganda.

Interesting topic and a great read too! I know you said that the Fibonacci is discussed here on ATS, and i stumbled upon one a while back. Some of you guys probably read it but its about a band called Tool and a thing called "The Holy gift." S&F

reply to post by deometer


Awesome, thanks for the video. I'll definitely check this out when I have the time. Thanks for your kinds words!

Originally posted by Aktulu
Interesting topic and a great read too! I know you said that the Fibonacci is discussed here on ATS, and i stumbled upon one a while back. Some of you guys probably read it but its about a band called Tool and a thing called "The Holy gift." S&F

Thanks for your kind words. If you scroll up a bit you'll see somebody already posted a video discussing Tool and their Fibonacci references! They certainly are a very spiritual band.

reply to post by ErroneousDylan


Ahh, there it is. Seems like someone already beat me to it.

Well, anyways thanks for sharing this. After reading about the Fibonacci sequence in Tool on here, it kinda got me interested. I was too lazy at the time to look it up for myself, seems like you got my attention though. This was a very interesting thread. I'll also be looking out for Venus when it goes in transit in front of the sun. I just hope i dont miss it, E3 will be showing on SpikeTV. =P Do you know what times will it be? I managed to catch the annual eclipse here not too long ago.

reply to post by ErroneousDylan


Stop right there -- I have a whole long thread devoted to the very error you are making in logic.

The ratio 2:3 is very different than 3:2 in regards to the Fibonacci Sequence -- not a series by the way. A series assumes it converges to the Golden Ratio.

The Golden Ratio relies on reversing the order of infinity so that there is a "one to one" correspondence between geometry and number. The same occurs for Western music use of the Perfect Fifth as 2:3 converted to 3:2.

O.K. so the Harmonic Series is like the Fibonacci Series -- both are actually sequences. The Harmonic Series diverges and so it starts with C and then goes an octave to C and then to G -- so that is 2:3 as the Perfect Fifth.

To get the Perfect Fourth music ratio then the subharmonic of the Perfect Fifth is taken in reverse time so that it is going in the opposite direction. So you have C to C to F as 2:3 perfect fifth ratio -- only since it is to the geometric symbol F then it is non-commutative and does not apply to any Golden Ratio or closed form series solution.

What did Western music do? Took the C to F as 2:3 and then doubled it to C to F as 4:3. Voila You have the Perfect Fourth as 4:3 and then the Perfect Fifth as 3:2 using C to G -- assuming a commutative relation of one.

O.K. you have dared to refer to Pythagoras and here is where you've made a grave mistake. The Law of Pythagoras states that wavelength as time is the inverse of frequency. Easy right? So 1 to 2 is one wavelength. The octave is one half wavelength or 1/2 -- so you get twice the frequency with half of the wavelength -- inverse relation.

Now check out the Perfect Fourth -- it's actually the subharmonic of the Perfect Fifth. In other words what is the inverse of the 3/2 frequency as the Perfect Fifth? It is 2/3 as the wavelength. But 2/3 is the frequency of the Perfect Fifth in the reverse time as the subharmonic which is then geometrically the Perfect Fourth.

So C to G as 3/2 is the Perfect Fifth and C to F in reverse time is 2/3 as the Perfect Fifth. That is non-commutative.

The Golden Ratio assumes a logarithmic commutative solution.

All the math that you are relying on for orbits, etc. relies on commutative logarithmic mathematics.

Music theory in its basic form of the harmonic series and the Perfect Fifth is non-commutative.

O.K. so you can't claim you are not using the Golden Ratio and also you can't claim you're not just repeating the work of Richard Merrick.

If you post information that is exactly the same as Richard Merrick it doesn't matter if you didn't know of Richard Merrick.

The fact is you now know of Richard Merrick. To pretend you don't know of Richard Merrick is intellectually dishonest.

You never gave a source for your claim that the Venus/Earth alignment is the Perfect Fifth music ratio.

You wanted to ignore me and then continue thanking people for your OP. It's not your OP -- you're just repeating the New Age bunk of Richard Merrick -- whether you had the intention to do so or not is not the issue.

You have a responsibility and requirement to give credit to the source of an idea -- and you never gave any source for your claim of the Perfect Fifth music ratio for the Fibonacci Series orbit pentagram of Venus/Earth.

O.K. so the choice is yours - you have used the Golden Ratio in your other replies to people in discussion of other planets. You have relied on science that is based on logarithmic math that assumes the Golden Ratio.

Are you now disowning the Golden Ratio as a closed solution?

Do you know the implications of this if you are? Kepler was against the closed form of the Golden Ratio -- because the Fibonacci Series is composed of male and female numbers. For the closed solution of the Golden Ratio the order of infinity has to be reversed as I stated.

So originally the Fibonacci Series was A is to B as B is to (A plus B). In the continued fraction form this means 1 plus 1 divided by 1 infinitely.

This is why the Fibonacci sequence is so common -- it's the slowest converging irrational number -- if it is considered to converge.

In order for the Fibonacci Sequence to converge to the Golden Ratio then the above solution has to be reversed to A is to B as B is to (A minus B).

O.K. see the difference? The question is about how the geometric symbols line up with the numbers relying on commutative quadratic mathematics.

Again for the Perfect Fifth they do not line up. Richard Merrick does not realize this.

Pythagoras realized that the Perfect Fifth does not line up with commutative mathematics -- this is the secret of real alchemy.

Quantum math is also non-commutative as the infinite potential.

Originally posted by ErroneousDylan

Originally posted by crankyoldman
well done post. Thoughtful, interesting and insightful.

You might like the work over at www.goroadachi.com... .

Goro has been putting together symbols via ritual dates etc. using much of the same formula as you have put forth here. The significance, according to his work - and those who contribute, would suggest this transit, and the pentagram you have demonstrated, will be seen by us all in one for or another as this is part of the giant ritual culminating at that point.

Hm, a ritual you say? How very fascinating. I wonder, while I believe the pentagram to be holy, I know it is used in many dark arts rituals, especially when it is represented 'up-side-down'. What does this Goro believe? Either way, I will most certainly check it out as it sounds very neat.

Thank you for the kinds words too!

I would not say it is "holy," as it is just a symbol. Symbols are just that, and are made to reference an idea. There are ideas that are germane to our realm, but not universally germane. Tsarion is a great resource for seeing how symbols that mean something to the collective unconscious are used to "manipulate" us because the do have a history. The rings of saturn are a key one, nike swoosh is a symbol of the rings of saturn, hoop earrings=saturn. The pentagram is a symbol for Venus, not really "holy" just a symbol for all that is venution in our collective, in fact it is said that Islam is a worship of venus, old testament based worship is that of Saturn - the war is between those who worship these two realms.

It should be said that math is not a universal anything either, but a symbolic language what is used to describe something. We can describe the pentagram with words, drawings, or math. But math isn't universal, in many realms the idea of 2+2=4 as an absolute is met with "huh?" In fact, there are tribes here on earth that don't see numbers totaling more then 10 and have no need for "math" as a language to describe anything and they exist just as we all do.

Goro has been following a symbolic planetary ritual for some 10 years now, with most of his observations being pretty spot on. The key to the effort is the overlay of the specific points of the pentagram which marks dates on our calendar, which represents a collective of symbols, that in his estimation, represents the time at which earth makes contact. While it could be seen an silly, the mere fact that the dates he's pointed to, and the events to be seen at those times, is often exact. Your observations are perfectly inline with this - very neat to say the least as you don't know of his work.

What is interesting is our inability to see symbols in a larger fashion. We tend to be very myopic in our view of the larger picture. Example. Folks have been looking for patterns to play the stock market for some time. The problem is the patterns are larger then they think - symbols. A Russian determined the patterns are 100 years long, if you expand your definition of the process to extend beyond 1 year or 10 years, but to 100 years, an obvious pattern emerges. You're pentagram/venus examination extends the pattern examination to a place where it makes more sense, but only in the larger context. In the smaller context you get responses like "that's just stupid," and this happens because folks can't imagine a stock market game whose pattern is found in the 100 year territory, let alone a pattern that is found in such a complex system in which your observations are a component.

reply to post by crankyoldman


I see what you're implying. I have always thought that numbers are a good way to point you in the right direction but I'm not so sure that any of the questions fathoming divine order could properly be expressed using them. Very interesting you say this person's dates are similar to mine. I'm actually very excited to go check it out.

Thank you for the informative response.