Fibonacci Numbers, Phi, and the Venus/Earth Relation

Originally posted by Sublimecraft
Thank-you so much for this post - amazing and thought provoking stuff.

I am not in the same intellectual league as the OP and his respondents, including Mr OccamAssassin, Hell, I had to read parts of your post 3+ times before some of it sunk in

There appears to be a maths and esoteric quality to this "reoccurrance and commonality" Fibonacci thing so:

Can one of you "Sheldon Coopers" out there apply this to the Zodiac?

Once again thank-you.

You are very welcome, and thank you for the kind words! I am sorry if I managed to over-complicate things.

OP... I am really curious about some of this stuff but cannot bring myself to understand it in the least. I was never good at math but can do practical math, even if it's a little complicated, in my head... if I have a direction to apply it to. Now,I'm not saying this is not practical math... I am having trouble finding a starting point of where it will open up to me. So I just want to ask a simple question and just wanted to explain my reasons for asking it so you wouldn't take it as petty or argumentative or that I'm out to disprove something or you know... whatever.

I'm just very curious and want to bite into this. Now I know that by my one question in this thread, it is certainly not going to allow me to understand the fulcrum of how these things work in general but, you know... I'm just wanting a piece of this. For now.

If I can grasp any of it, who knows... it may lead to something else.

Under the picture of the a+b equation, your next line is "do some math and you get ---------"

after you explain phi, which I can't say I fully understand what exact relation is attributed when one says "this number is to this number"... but maybe after this I can figure it out.

So exactly what math did you do when you got that irrational number?

Are you just saying that if you are doing some random math and you get a weird number like ______ or are you saying Do the math and you will get this.

because as soon as I read that I was like "what math?"... how did you get that number? or are you just referring an idea.

Maybe this is revealed further in the post and I'm sorry if this makes me sound of less than average intelligence (which it doesn't really make me feel that way because I know I am better than many people at math and I'm HORRIBLE at math... some people, average people... can barely seem to multiply)

I was never good at these letter equations because numbers seem to make much more sense when it comes to math... and again, I didn't pay very much attention in school to how these relations or formulas are supposed to work unless i can see it's significance in a practical application. For example, I have used symbols or letters to identify something in a math equation trying to calculate something before I noticed that i was using representations. in applications it feels normal to do so, but when I just look at someone else's work I'm like...what?!!

Can you just explain where this number came from?...this irrational number? or is it just a random example.

I didn't read past that because I was certain at that point that I would not understand the following.
It just kind of broke down after that.

Originally posted by Sublimecraft
reply to post by PurpleChiten

 

Well off the mark about my participation in such things BUT that was very very well done - from now on you shall be known as "The Witty purple bird" to me

I only mentioned the zodiac because of the reference to the pentagram, no harm in trying

LOL okies, I accept my moniker!

ok, let me just say that after trying to read further i do understand the a is to be thing... when I see it numbers but still, where did that irrational number come from?

oh... Ok, nevermind. i see.

I will just keep reading.

I just read "do some math"..and i was like WHAT MATH?

Originally posted by NotAnAspie
OP... I am really curious about some of this stuff but cannot bring myself to understand it in the least. I was never good at math but can do practical math, even if it's a little complicated, in my head... if I have a direction to apply it to. Now,I'm not saying this is not practical math... I am having trouble finding a starting point of where it will open up to me. So I just want to ask a simple question and just wanted to explain my reasons for asking it so you wouldn't take it as petty or argumentative or that I'm out to disprove something or you know... whatever.

I'm just very curious and want to bite into this. Now I know that by my one question in this thread, it is certainly not going to allow me to understand the fulcrum of how these things work in general but, you know... I'm just wanting a piece of this. For now.

If I can grasp any of it, who knows... it may lead to something else.

Under the picture of the a+b equation, your next line is "do some math and you get ---------"

after you explain phi, which I can't say I fully understand what exact relation is attributed when one says "this number is to this number"... but maybe after this I can figure it out.

So exactly what math did you do when you got that irrational number?

Are you just saying that if you are doing some random math and you get a weird number like ______ or are you saying Do the math and you will get this.

because as soon as I read that I was like "what math?"... how did you get that number? or are you just referring an idea.

Maybe this is revealed further in the post and I'm sorry if this makes me sound of less than average intelligence (which it doesn't really make me feel that way because I know I am better than many people at math and I'm HORRIBLE at math... some people, average people... can barely seem to multiply)

I was never good at these letter equations because numbers seem to make much more sense when it comes to math... and again, I didn't pay very much attention in school to how these relations or formulas are supposed to work unless i can see it's significance in a practical application. For example, I have used symbols or letters to identify something in a math equation trying to calculate something before I noticed that i was using representations. in applications it feels normal to do so, but when I just look at someone else's work I'm like...what?!!

Can you just explain where this number came from?...this irrational number? or is it just a random example.

I didn't read past that because I was certain at that point that I would not understand the following.
It just kind of broke down after that.

edit on 25-5-2012 by NotAnAspie because: (no reason given)

edit on 25-5-2012 by NotAnAspie because: (no reason given)

I'm going to interject...ummm...because I want to
If you set up the ratio, you get a+b/a = a/b , then you cross multiply to get a^2 = b(a+b),use the distributive property to get a^2 = ab + b^2. Then get it all to one side of the equal sign for a^2 -ab - b^2 which isn't factorable, so you use the quadratic formula and solve for a getting (after some arithmetic) 1+/- sqrt 5 all over 2. which, when divided out, gives you approximately 1.618 and -0.618

reply to post by PurpleChiten


Nope. Poorly referencing Fibonacci did it.....adding numerology, sealed the coffin.

That and the peeps(who point the ignorance finger) that don't bother to check up on claims and blindly star stupid threads/concepts.

Do you realise who the real "believers" are on ATS?

It is the people who look at things subjectively and make informed decisions based on facts, not the ones who make up stupid theories to fit into their own fictional world view.

The people who blindly star these things without actually checking the facts are what is dragging this site down and making it look like GLP.


As for me .....Call me a cranky $#!t if it makes you feel better. I won't loose any sleep over it.

But if you want me to roll over and accept any stupid idea because it was posted on ATS..........I may dissapoint.

Originally posted by PurpleChiten

Originally posted by NotAnAspie
OP... I am really curious about some of this stuff but cannot bring myself to understand it in the least. I was never good at math but can do practical math, even if it's a little complicated, in my head... if I have a direction to apply it to. Now,I'm not saying this is not practical math... I am having trouble finding a starting point of where it will open up to me. So I just want to ask a simple question and just wanted to explain my reasons for asking it so you wouldn't take it as petty or argumentative or that I'm out to disprove something or you know... whatever.

I'm just very curious and want to bite into this. Now I know that by my one question in this thread, it is certainly not going to allow me to understand the fulcrum of how these things work in general but, you know... I'm just wanting a piece of this. For now.

If I can grasp any of it, who knows... it may lead to something else.

Under the picture of the a+b equation, your next line is "do some math and you get ---------"

after you explain phi, which I can't say I fully understand what exact relation is attributed when one says "this number is to this number"... but maybe after this I can figure it out.

So exactly what math did you do when you got that irrational number?

Are you just saying that if you are doing some random math and you get a weird number like ______ or are you saying Do the math and you will get this.

because as soon as I read that I was like "what math?"... how did you get that number? or are you just referring an idea.

Maybe this is revealed further in the post and I'm sorry if this makes me sound of less than average intelligence (which it doesn't really make me feel that way because I know I am better than many people at math and I'm HORRIBLE at math... some people, average people... can barely seem to multiply)

I was never good at these letter equations because numbers seem to make much more sense when it comes to math... and again, I didn't pay very much attention in school to how these relations or formulas are supposed to work unless i can see it's significance in a practical application. For example, I have used symbols or letters to identify something in a math equation trying to calculate something before I noticed that i was using representations. in applications it feels normal to do so, but when I just look at someone else's work I'm like...what?!!

Can you just explain where this number came from?...this irrational number? or is it just a random example.

I didn't read past that because I was certain at that point that I would not understand the following.
It just kind of broke down after that.

edit on 25-5-2012 by NotAnAspie because: (no reason given)

edit on 25-5-2012 by NotAnAspie because: (no reason given)

I'm going to interject...ummm...because I want to

If you set up the ratio, you get a+b/a = a/b , then you cross multiply to get a^2 = b(a+b),use the distributive property to get a^2 = ab + b^2. Then get it all to one side of the equal sign for a^2 -ab - b^2 which isn't factorable, so you use the quadratic formula and solve for a getting (after some arithmetic) 1+/- sqrt 5 all over 2. which, when divided out, gives you approximately 1.618 and -0.618

edit on 25-5-2012 by PurpleChiten because: (no reason given)

Ok, apparently you did not read my previous post where I said never mind, I got it... and without this highly embellished explanation.

I'm now going to make an entirely different post to address the OP because I don't want it in the same posting quoting PurpleChiton... as he is VERY busy on this site as I'm sure everyone can see.

3 - System of 33 - Truth:

I was going to look for a model of Venus and earth orbits in relation to the sun because it is very interesting to watch them dance around each other. Although it's not the mathematical explanation, it does appear that they are playing off of each other in various ways... as you say "dancing" Facing each other at certain rhythmic times.

I didn't find one (didn't look very hard because...) I found this article instead which points out a lot of things the OP has said. It's kind of long, talks of ice ages and asteroids but before everyone calls it doomish... it makes it clear that there are always variables, So I'm not wanting to focus on the dreary side because it's likely nothing can be done about largely catastrophic events anyway on such a cosmic level if it is INDEED a bad omen... although it IS interesting they have chosen to start putting stuff in jet fuel as though they are concerned, yet no one suggests ceasing to use so much oil. ANYWAY... I want to post it for the OP to see how if he would like to take a look at the many numbers in this article as well... since he seems to find numbers very interesting... and if he has time, tell us what he finds. also, I assume some of it must be correct yet some of it may be very exaggerated so maybe some want to correct it. it's a shame that the Mayan information he speaks of is lost.

syzygyastro.hubpages.com...

Originally posted by NotAnAspie
I was going to look for a model of Venus and earth orbits in relation to the sun because it is very interesting to watch them dance around each other. Although it's not the mathematical explanation, it does appear that they are playing off of each other in various ways... as you say "dancing" Facing each other at certain rhythmic times.

I didn't find one (didn't look very hard because...) I found this article instead which points out a lot of things the OP has said. It's kind of long, talks of ice ages and asteroids but before everyone calls it doomish... it makes it clear that there are always variables, So I'm not wanting to focus on the dreary side because it's likely nothing can be done about largely catastrophic events anyway on such a cosmic level if it is INDEED a bad omen... although it IS interesting they have chosen to start putting stuff in jet fuel as though they are concerned, yet no one suggests ceasing to use so much oil. ANYWAY... I want to post it for the OP to see how if he would like to take a look at the many numbers in this article as well... since he seems to find numbers very interesting... and if he has time, tell us what he finds. also, I assume some of it must be correct yet some of it may be very exaggerated so maybe some want to correct it. it's a shame that the Mayan information he speaks of is lost.

syzygyastro.hubpages.com...

I had actually already read that article! It is a very good article and has a lot of in-depth information. In fact, it has so much that I haven't finished reading it all. I can't imagine the correlation of Venus and Earth would be a sign for something 'bad' to happen. If anything, that bad event would lead to an overall better. The Mayans where always very good at getting dates, but not the actual event. They predicted that one day the White God would return to them and that same day the Spanish conquistadors came and wiped them all out, also spreading "White Pox". So, I am iffy about Mayan predictions.

The signs Venus is giving us, I think is more positive. I can't imagine the Universe giving us something that we would consider to destructive to life.

Wonderful subject and a very inspiring theory.

I would like to delve a little deeper into the words of Sheldon Cooper and add a little extra speculation myself with regard to the "Fibonacci Numbers" and its relevance to Astrology.

"well...if it has to be Sheldon-ized... Yes... it tells us that you participate in the mass cultural delusion that the sun's apparent position relative to arbitrarily defined constellations at the time of your birth somehow affects your personality"

This quote in particular has sparked within me an ahhhhhhhh moment when I overlay it upon what has already been theorised in the thread so far.

Now if we work with the axiom that our solar system and all matter is based on the "Fibonacci Sequence", even down to our Geno.

Then what we are looking at is a "Universal Codex" or the "Golden Mean" of all that is perceivable by humanity so far.
So when "Sheldon" states that the "Suns relative position in relation to other constellations" as delusional, with regard to Astrology.

He fails to equate the effect of the "Golden Mean" upon each and every individual , down to their genetic predisposition. Therefor by virtue of this . it becomes probable that personality can indeed be approximated, through the positions of the Sun and its planets against the backdrop of the Universe.

All bodies relating to and working within the "Fibonacci Codex".

Originally posted by NotAnAspie


Ok, apparently you did not read my previous post where I said never mind, I got it... and without this highly embellished explanation.

I'm now going to make an entirely different post to address the OP because I don't want it in the same posting quoting PurpleChiton... as he is VERY busy on this site as I'm sure everyone can see.

edit on 25-5-2012 by NotAnAspie because: (no reason given)

Seriously, take a chill-pill dude

check the time stamp on the post, I posted the explanation MILLISECONDS after you posted "oh, I've got it".
I was trying to HELP you and you are being OBNOXIOUS. Cut it out already.

Originally posted by OccamAssassin
Numerology + Mathematics = Kooky theory with no basis nor relevance.

You managed to slaughter Astronomy, Physics, Maths & Music theory all in one meaningless thread.

That must be some kind of record!

Bravo!

Troll.

Get a real job bro. I'm ashamed.

Originally posted by PurpleChiten

Originally posted by NotAnAspie


Ok, apparently you did not read my previous post where I said never mind, I got it... and without this highly embellished explanation.

I'm now going to make an entirely different post to address the OP because I don't want it in the same posting quoting PurpleChiton... as he is VERY busy on this site as I'm sure everyone can see.

edit on 25-5-2012 by NotAnAspie because: (no reason given)

Seriously, take a chill-pill dude

check the time stamp on the post, I posted the explanation MILLISECONDS after you posted "oh, I've got it".
I was trying to HELP you and you are being OBNOXIOUS. Cut it out already.

edit on 25-5-2012 by PurpleChiten because: (no reason given)

It would be nice if you would not bog this thread down with derailings. The equation is very simple (for those of you who might actually think he is being serious when he said he was trying to be helpful... he's not)

I am going to attempt to get back on topic and it would be appreciated if you'd do the same.

...............

back to the OP. I read the article but have not taken each bit and cross referenced each issue he brought up further but I do agree it's interesting. I didn't know that about the conquistadors... although the coincidences are very strange, I'd say.

just like the golden ratio has an ascension and descension... maybe it will be good in some ways, yet bad in others. this is actually the natural cycles we see in life. Life progresses as some bad things happen and yet some good things happen, yet most tend to agree that it is *indeed* a progression. The majority of life on Earth has gotten better, even for those in warring countries... they are still fighting for rights and are perhaps closer than they would have been had they lived ages ago... even if their lives and losses seem so discouraging now. I know that would be very hard for some to believe, but if you look back and the scourge of the black plague and mass marauding... it could be a consideration overall that we have chances as a whole of mankind that we have never had before. Yet just not too long ago, things happened like "the great leap forward" which would remind some of reading of those exact same type of mass marauding of ages past.

What if they only way to equalize the equation for the progression of good, is the also in the descension? of some part of the whole. An equilibrium.

well, I don't want to get too much into the realm of bad omens because I know this is not what your thread is about... it's about the significance of the cycles themselves and what they can teach us about our universe.

I am *extremely* curious about the possible off round core of Venus. I suspect this as well but have no scientific basic for other than just the impression I get when observing it's orbit and knowing a few off things about it. I wonder if it is possible that despite it's high temperatures which would make me think it's core is highly fluid, that there may be some element within the core which behaves differently than the metals... and is somehow related to earth. Or maybe it's something about the crust... as it is the part which likes to face Earth in it's strange pentagram cycle. I don't know. I have all sorts of wild thoughts about Venus.. it is a very interesting planet.

This is a post that can encourage interesting interactions other than insults. The OP, ErroneousDylan, and OccamAssassin have interesting points that should be heard and explored, even if only to educate ourselves about both the good and crude use of Phi and Fibonacci that is often used to "explain" who-knows-what, good, bad or imagined. Time prohibits my fuller response but I will be back.

Meanwhile just a thought to consider. The relationship between Phi and Fibonacci at the small numbers is poor but does tend towards 1,618... . Perhaps we need a number system to the base Phi to really start to investigate all these supposed natural relationships that are observed. After all, all natural constants we know of are irrational. Try drawing the pentagram step by step, piece by piece with the true phi relationship between each section, for example. What would that look like?

I will not even begin on the deductions of numerology that is also "based" (on rocky ground for me) on the base 10 system and a whole lot of other man-made number (year, month lengths etc) .......
must rush .............................

I seen this really cool picture on facebook talking about this. I had no idea where the pentagram came from Thank you, the 5th and 6th should be a nice day lol.





Not sure if you can see this without a facebook.

reply to post by ErroneousDylan


you totally just blew my mind, bro...I must say you kind of gave up or held back at the end but still.

thanks for the mental munchies

I had this theory that Venus is so hot and it's core so highly fluid that it doesn't rotate very fast on the *outside* but that within it is actually on the same wave as the other planets. i theorized that the crust is only the part that is going in another direction from having such a fluid center that the mass of the crust is negligible in comparison to the core to a large extent... and that the crust is sliding... opposing the natural inner direction of the core... and this explanation about this cycle is fascinating because it suggests that it may have something to do with earth.

I mean, there is a just a feeling you get when looking at a model of the orbit. they are playing off of each other in some way and do agree in your theory that they may be opposites. there is just something weird and fascinating about the whole thing.

reply to post by ErroneousDylan


Here's another site you may really like. It brings in some of the other planets as well and extrapolates on what you've been looking into
goldennumber.net...