Reason some feel Bush won the debate

I have an explanation to offer as to why there are so many people who feel that Bush won the debate. People today, with the enormous upgrade in the communication industry over the last ten years, are exposed to far too much information than the average human mind has the ability to process. Therefore, most Americans feel the need to latch onto a media outlet to interpret the information for them and only expose them to the information they "need". Unfortunately, many Americans have chosen Fox News as their "interpreter" of choice. Keep in mind that Fox is the only major network that will not put their news on their primary network. Instead, they have created a separate channel for their news. The reason is simple. The demographic that Fox targets is the same demographic that should remember that Fox introduced American television to the "immoral TV revolution". Anyone over the age of 25 should remember the controversy of shows like 'Married with Children' and 'Ellen'. The majority of Bush supporters now are the same people who were up in arms when Fox allowed Ellen Degeneres to come out of the closet on their network during prime time, no less. Fox brilliantly manipulated the system by creating a "separate" channel completely devoted to "news". Fox News is taking advantage of good, down to earth, God-fearing Americans by sending the message that change leads to destruction. Most (hopefully) Americans realize why they would send this message......without elaborating any further, Power/Control of the Masses.

Clearly, Kerry won this debate by a landslide, but if you watch Fox News they would have you believe that the debate was a draw, although Bush made several important statements. Rather than pointing out those statements, they once again resort to attacking Kerry's "flip-flopping".

One last note.....if anybody saw the "debate" between Al Gore and Bob Dole at SMU this past Monday, you would have heard Bob Dole himself say that comparing a candidate's Senate record to how he will perform in the White House is absurd. Bob Dole knows this because these are the same tactics the Democrats used to defeat him in 1996. There is simply no comparison....completely different set of "political rules" to follow. I see that several posters have already done a great job explaining this in other threads, so I won't elaborate.

My conclusion.......if you depend on Fox News as your source of information, watch the next two debates and take some time to digest what you see on your own time. Do not turn the TV to Fox News until you have completely digested and processed everything you watched (seeing is believing, right?). Tune into Fox News only after you have drawn an objectional conclusion to what you watched and see if their "reporting" matches your logic.


[edit on 1-10-2004 by Utopia2020]

Kerry debates Kerry

Kerry you're such a funny guy. At least we'll remember you better then we did Dukakis.

Well I originate from a small town. And you have to keep in mind they may not think like you, Utopia2020.

I think John F. Kerry did better, but know how some people simply go for the ignorant country touch that Bush demonstrates.

Kerry could and should be rapier sharp on certain facts:

Osama Bin Laden, is responsible for 911, and Bush has FAILED to capture or kill him.

The Disaster in Iraq WAS not relevant to the war on terrorism. It was a MISTAKE.

A COSTLY 150 BILLION DOLLAR MISTAKE.

The FBI is NOT translating documents that could save American lives. Again Bush has FAILED.

BUSH has been too busy getting NO-BID CONTRACTS for HALIBURTON & BECHTEL to pay attention to the ground situation in Iraq. He again has FAILED to win the hearts and minds of Iraqi nationals.
This is KEY to securing the Iraqi nation.

Bush's presidency is a failure. PERIOD.
.

Slank,

I too lived in a small town for five years and I completely understand how they think. My point is that Fox News (among others) have exploited this way of thinking and taken advantage of good, decent, intelligent people whose means of life teaches them to trust ALL fellow Americans.

I agree with everything else in your post.

Yes, Kerry did better at the DEBATE. But looking at the facts I think he fell way short.
1. We are still trying to capture Bin Laden. The fact that we haven't yet doesn't mean failure; the FBI, with all it's resources, tries to capture people on the ten most wanted list for years at a time, and that's within THIS country where we have full autonomy.
2. I think Iraq was - and is - worth it. Millions of people saved from a brutal dictator who raped, pillaged, and WMD'd his own people...
On top of that, in the debate, Kerry said he WOULD go into the Sudan unilaterally, for humanitarian reasons. Well, that was one of several reasons we went into Iraq. Kerry is contradicting his own 'doctrine.' On top of that, he said multiple times in the past we SHOULD remove Saddam
3. It isn't the FBI that's supposed to translate 'documents' acquired from overseas, that's the job of the CIA and NSA. It's true that tens of thousands of documents, hard-copy and electronic, aren't looked at. The reason, though, is because THEY DON'T HAVE THE RESOURCES OR FUNDS TO DO SO, and Kerry votes to cut their funding EVERY CHANCE HE GETS!!!!
Even post 9/11 he tried to... for Kerry to mention that is hypocrisy at it's zenith!!
4. Haliburton?? You're joking, right? Did you know that Clinton awarded more contracts to Haliburton than this administration? Did you also know that Haliburton is THE ONLY COMPANY OF IT'S KIND IN THE WORLD THAT CAN DO WHAT IT DOES??? (C'mon, grow a brain and type something more original than that...)
5. The overwhelming majority of Iraqi's approve of what we're doing for them...

B Genki,

I would need to see data supporting your claim that the Clinton Administration personally rewarded Halliburton with more government contractual dollars than the Bush Administration has in order to even think about buying that.

Also, what qualifies you to say that only Halliburton can perform those services? It couldn't be because it is the only company who has been given the opportunity. Sounds like a monopoly to me......maybe we need to investigate.

After I left work.
I LISTENED to the Debate, on the radio...Most of it anyway.
THEN, I watched a replay on C-span.


KERRY won for debate style. And Lost for accuracy..

As far as landslide...I think the a MAJORITY of people think he won..A landslide
of people think he won..but the win, in of itself was NOT a landslide.

I live in a very small town in Georgia. I'm a native born and raised here. But most of the locals like Bush. It could be true about the "small towns" liking Bush. I'm considered "radical" or something because I like Kerry.
Well...it could be too, that I don't dress like the locals do or have the same views. There's a few of us "different" ones in small towns though.

I agree with most genki has said, especially that bit about Haliburton.

I do, however, question how anyone knows that the "overwhelming majority of iraqis" are grateful, or angry, or have ANY EMOTION WHATSOEVER about what the US is doing. You can't tell me that the US has pollsters in Iraq as we speak, interviewing the civilians as the war progresses. Maybe they are pleased, maybe not, I don't think we have even close to a fair representation of Iraq's population.

spacedoubt,

I'm interested to hear you elaborate on your "lost for accuracy" comment. Politics aside, if this debate were scored Kerry wins by a landslide. You have to at least admit that (Step 1).

Bin Laden has not been officially caputered yet. But his ability to carry out an attack has been badly damaged. I for one dont think its too big of a deal in teh short run to have him as long as he cant carry out another attack.

The war in Iraq was not, in the beggining, a war against terrorist. It was a war against saddam fro violating countless UN santions. Lets not forget that. We were fully empowered to go into Iraq. We might not of had UN approval but u know y??? cause the UN didnt wanna disrupte there oil for food scandel.

Also the FBI has translated tons of documents. Yes there are tons still to be translated but befroe bush was in office there was no where near the communication or work done in the FBI about terrorism.

The minds of teh Iraqis are about 50-50 in support to President bush. The other 50% is being brainwashed by the media over there and soo are tons of ppl here in america.

I've thought this too Rain King. If Sadaam thinks he has a chance to win the elections in Iraq in January. (You know he's trying to put his name on the ballots in Iraq). Why does he think he stands a chance of getting elected? I mean some of those Iraqis. Maybe a lot actually liked him? We don't know enough about what they want.

September 11, 2001 may have provided just the motivation they needed.

I have to admit that I was not aware just how long Halliburton had been an almost exclusive government contractor. While there are quite a few articles that references the current Halliburton mess the only one I could find on pre-Bush Halliburton was a National Review article:



While I understand that Halliburton is a jack of all trades and this why they get so many of the contracts, I do not agree with the hands off approach Congress has taken with them. Personally I think the GAO should be performing continuous audits of all financial transactions?

On topic: Not voting for Bush/not voting for Kerry and saw the debate on Cspan - Kerry won for style/Bush for substance. Sorry but neither candidate impressed third party or undecided voters.

I think your analysis of why Fox has a news network is wrong. Fox Entertainment and Fox News are two separate divisions of NewsCorp. Fox News was designed to compete with other cable news agencies like CNN and MSNBC. Network news is moribund and Fox has known that for a long time. I've been watching the news for the better part of fifty-five years. I can tell you that I am so glad a new agency exists that just tries to be "fair and balanced." Anyone can watch whatever news they want. I choose Fox because they insult my intelligence far less often than anyone else.



What are you talking about? Fox provided the cameras for all the news agencies for the debate. Even though the RNC and the DNC decided not to let agencies use a split screen or show the candidates reactions to the other each other, Fox signed no such agreement and used a split screen and otherwise gave a balance view of the debate. And furthermore, Fox is not reporting that Bush won the debate. They have reported on numerous poll which show that Kerry won the debate. They have also reported the snap poll that shows that the debate did not materially change the perception of the public. Bush had 50% rating while Kerry had a 46% before the debate and after, Bush had 51% and Kerry had a 47%.

Why are you trashing Fox without a single solitary fact?

This is what Fox News is reporting:

www.foxnews.com...
www.foxnews.com...
www.foxnews.com...
www.foxnews.com...
www.foxnews.com...
www.foxnews.com...
www.foxnews.com...
www.foxnews.com...

These are the inaccuracies from BOTH sides. Kerry's were more Grandiose, IMO

factcheck

I could care less about who won the debate. I watched it and it was entertaining (watching Bush's expression as Kerry made his comments).

George Bush will remain president after November and everyone, including those who support Kerry, knows it.

You're probably right Interearthling. I just wish that everyone who votes against Bush could sue the people who did for everything crappy that's going to happen because of voteing him in again!

[edit on 1-10-2004 by elaine]

[edit on 1-10-2004 by elaine]

Rain King: how do I get off saying the overwhelming majority of Iraqis support us? That's a fair question: I was in the Army with the 101st until October. I was in MI, and through an interpreter, spoke to and met - geez, I don't know - hundreds of Iraqis. All of them were dirt-poor by U.S. standards, but they all expressed thanks for getting rid of Saddam.
I'll admit they could have been saying that out of fear, but they seemed genuine.
I suppose I should qualify my statement to read: "the overwhelming majority of Iraqis that I met support us."

I watched it on c-span and think it was a draw. Kerry won in the performance competition and Bush won in the Content section.