"Are you a mason?" "Of course I am!"

Originally posted by KSigMason
reply to post by EarthCitizen07

 

Well, outside of this site, I've been to dozens of anti-Masonic sites. I've read several books about the "evils" of Freemasonry.

I defend Freemasonry because of the malicious lies. I've never been one to take it on the chin without fighting back.

Unless you are a 33rd degree or higher, why would you assume to know everything there is to know?

I can understand getting emotionally hurt somewhat when someone criticises something you like, but you are not freemasonry. You are merely a member of a potentially corrupt organisation. It is like someone saying NYC cops are extremely corrupt and a lowely seargent getting his panties in a bunch. This kind of attitude just does not make sense to me.

Or are you going to come out and say "I am a 33rd and thus know"? Yeah I have seen that as well! Been on ATS for many years and all the mason get together to defend each other in wolfpack like fashion. Much like the disinformation agents on the 9-11 board. Some people don't even sleep or eat at all. They must preserve their make believe integrity at all costs 24-7, 4/12.......

reply to post by EarthCitizen07


This seems to be true from my own research. It's kinda like the movie National Treasure. The dan brown books were becoming hugely successful franchises in film and print media and then there's Nicholas Cage with masonic treasure flying out of his ass.

Blind them with glittery statements and smoke screens and if you confuse them enough they will go away.

reply to post by EarthCitizen07

In the Scottish Rite, there is nothing higher than the 33rd degree. And the Scottish Rite doesn't exercise any control outside of the Scottish Rite. To a York Rite Mason the Scottish Rite is irrelevant. Last fall I joined the Scottish Rite, but I knew quite a bit about it prior to joining. I have been in the York Rite for.....4-years, but I've moved quickly through it. I personally find the York Rite to be a much more fascinating study.

Plus you assume degree is equal to rank, but that isn't always the case.

I'm not a 33rd, I'm a 32nd as you can see in my signature block. I would not dare lie about what degrees and orders I hold. That would serve no purpose.

How can anyone at 33rd degree or lower, obviously including non-Masons, know for a fact there is nothing higher than the 33rd degree?

Just curious, logically speaking, I'm not making any claims myself.

Originally posted by KSigMason
reply to post by EarthCitizen07

 

In the Scottish Rite, there is nothing higher than the 33rd degree. And the Scottish Rite doesn't exercise any control outside of the Scottish Rite. To a York Rite Mason the Scottish Rite is irrelevant. Last fall I joined the Scottish Rite, but I knew quite a bit about it prior to joining. I have been in the York Rite for.....4-years, but I've moved quickly through it. I personally find the York Rite to be a much more fascinating study.

Plus you assume degree is equal to rank, but that isn't always the case.

I'm not a 33rd, I'm a 32nd as you can see in my signature block. I would not dare lie about what degrees and orders I hold. That would serve no purpose.

Yeah the scottish rite and york rite are adjuncts of the blue lodge. This much we agree on.

What about the rite of memphis and misraim which start at 34 and end up at 99 deg? I find it interesting that it picks up where the scottish rite finishes...

Degrees

34° Knight of Scandinavia
35° Knight of the Temple
36° Sublime Negociant
37° Knight of Shota (Sage of Truth)
38° Sublime Elect of Truth (The Red Eagle)
39° Grand Elect of the Aeons
40° Sage Savaistre (Perfect Sage)
41° Knight of the Arch of Seven Colours
42° Prince of Light
43° Sublime Hermetic Sage (Hermetic Philosopher)
44° Prince of the Zodiac
45° Sublime Sage of the Mysteries
46° Sublime Pastor of the Huts
47° Knight of the Seven Stars
48° Sublime Guardian of the Sacred Mount
49° Sublime Sage of the Pyramids
50° Sublime Philosopher of Samothrace
51° Sublime Titan of the Caucasus
52° Sage of the Labyrinth
53° Knight or Sage of the Phoenix
54° Sublime Scalde
55° Sublime Orphic Doctor
56° Pontiff, of Sage of Cadmia
57° Sublime Magus
58° Sage, or Prince Brahmine
59° Sublime Sage, or Grand Pontiff of Ogygia
60° Sublime Guardian of the Three Fires
61° Sublime Unknown Philosopher
62° Sublime Sage of Eulisis
63° Sublime Kawi
64° Sage of Mythras
65° Guardian of Sanctuary – Grand Installator
66° Grand Architect of the Mysterious City – Grand Consecrator
67° Guardian of the Incommunicable Name – Grand Eulogist
68° Patriarch of Truth
69° Knight or Sage of the Golden Branch of Eleusis
70° Prince of Light, or Patriarch of the Planispheres
71° Patriarch of the Sacred Vedas
72° Sublime Master of Wisdom
73° Patriarch, or Doctor of the Sacred Fire
74° Sublime Master of the Stoka
75° Knight Commandel of the Lybic Chain
76° Interpreter of Hieroglyphics, of Patriarch of Isis
77° Sublime Knight or Sage Theosopher
78° Grand Pontiff of the Thebiad
79° Knight, or Sage of the Redoubtable Sada
80° Sublime Elect of the Sanctuary of Mazias
81° Intendent Regulator, or Patriarch of Memphis
82° Grand Elect of the Temple of Midgard
83° Sublime Elect of the Valley of Oddy
84° Patriarch or Doctor of the Izeds
85° Sublime Sage, or Knight of Kneph
86° Sublime Philosopher of the Valley of Kab
87° Sublime Prince of Masonry
88° Grand Elect of the Sacred Curtain
89° Patriarch of the Mystic City
90° Sublime Master of the Great Work
91° Grand Defender
92° Grand Catechist
93° Regulator General
94° Prince of Memphis, or Grand Administrator
95° Grand Conservator
96° Grand and Puissant Sovereign of the Order
97° Deputy International Grand Master
98° International Grand Master
99° Grand Hierophant

Interesting no? And I think it is very expensive to join...we are talking country club prices!

Plus most of ancient worthwhile mysteries deal with egypt and babylon.

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

Originally posted by KSigMason
reply to post by EarthCitizen07

 

In the Scottish Rite, there is nothing higher than the 33rd degree. And the Scottish Rite doesn't exercise any control outside of the Scottish Rite. To a York Rite Mason the Scottish Rite is irrelevant. Last fall I joined the Scottish Rite, but I knew quite a bit about it prior to joining. I have been in the York Rite for.....4-years, but I've moved quickly through it. I personally find the York Rite to be a much more fascinating study.

Plus you assume degree is equal to rank, but that isn't always the case.

I'm not a 33rd, I'm a 32nd as you can see in my signature block. I would not dare lie about what degrees and orders I hold. That would serve no purpose.

Yeah the scottish rite and york rite are adjuncts of the blue lodge. This much we agree on.

What about the rite of memphis and misraim which start at 34 and end up at 99 deg? I find it interesting that it picks up where the scottish rite finishes...

Degrees

34° Knight of Scandinavia
35° Knight of the Temple
36° Sublime Negociant
37° Knight of Shota (Sage of Truth)
38° Sublime Elect of Truth (The Red Eagle)
39° Grand Elect of the Aeons
40° Sage Savaistre (Perfect Sage)
41° Knight of the Arch of Seven Colours
42° Prince of Light
43° Sublime Hermetic Sage (Hermetic Philosopher)
44° Prince of the Zodiac
45° Sublime Sage of the Mysteries
46° Sublime Pastor of the Huts
47° Knight of the Seven Stars
48° Sublime Guardian of the Sacred Mount
49° Sublime Sage of the Pyramids
50° Sublime Philosopher of Samothrace
51° Sublime Titan of the Caucasus
52° Sage of the Labyrinth
53° Knight or Sage of the Phoenix
54° Sublime Scalde
55° Sublime Orphic Doctor
56° Pontiff, of Sage of Cadmia
57° Sublime Magus
58° Sage, or Prince Brahmine
59° Sublime Sage, or Grand Pontiff of Ogygia
60° Sublime Guardian of the Three Fires
61° Sublime Unknown Philosopher
62° Sublime Sage of Eulisis
63° Sublime Kawi
64° Sage of Mythras
65° Guardian of Sanctuary – Grand Installator
66° Grand Architect of the Mysterious City – Grand Consecrator
67° Guardian of the Incommunicable Name – Grand Eulogist
68° Patriarch of Truth
69° Knight or Sage of the Golden Branch of Eleusis
70° Prince of Light, or Patriarch of the Planispheres
71° Patriarch of the Sacred Vedas
72° Sublime Master of Wisdom
73° Patriarch, or Doctor of the Sacred Fire
74° Sublime Master of the Stoka
75° Knight Commandel of the Lybic Chain
76° Interpreter of Hieroglyphics, of Patriarch of Isis
77° Sublime Knight or Sage Theosopher
78° Grand Pontiff of the Thebiad
79° Knight, or Sage of the Redoubtable Sada
80° Sublime Elect of the Sanctuary of Mazias
81° Intendent Regulator, or Patriarch of Memphis
82° Grand Elect of the Temple of Midgard
83° Sublime Elect of the Valley of Oddy
84° Patriarch or Doctor of the Izeds
85° Sublime Sage, or Knight of Kneph
86° Sublime Philosopher of the Valley of Kab
87° Sublime Prince of Masonry
88° Grand Elect of the Sacred Curtain
89° Patriarch of the Mystic City
90° Sublime Master of the Great Work
91° Grand Defender
92° Grand Catechist
93° Regulator General
94° Prince of Memphis, or Grand Administrator
95° Grand Conservator
96° Grand and Puissant Sovereign of the Order
97° Deputy International Grand Master
98° International Grand Master
99° Grand Hierophant

Interesting no? And I think it is very expensive to join...we are talking country club prices!

Plus most of ancient worthwhile mysteries deal with egypt and babylon.

a little numerology:

33 = 3+3 = 6
99 = 9+9 = 18 = 6+6+6

reply to post by protocolsoflove


nice addition to the mix.

what about the 9-11 trajedy.......911(emergency call)...9*11=99

was my example good?

99 degrees, and this picks up after the Scottish Rite? Very interesting.

As an outsider, how am I to differentiate between what is official and what is unofficial, regarding Masonic orders and lodges? I hear a lot of Masons say that Freemasonry has no real point of authority while also saying the lodges which are not official are not real or true Masonry.

I think even a Mason can appreciate how this line of logic can be confusing to anyone, most especially the uninitiated.

reply to post by Erbal


There are many unofficial groups who have no connections to freemasonry. For example OTO, Golden Dawn and scientology. I would not worry too much about what is official and what is unofficial. What difference does it make to you?

The rite of memphis and misraim, scottish rite, york rite and blue lodge are official though. You start at the blue lodge and work your way up. 3rd degree is master mason in the blue lodge, then you join an adjunct such as york rite or scottish rite(up to 33) and if you can make it up to rite of memphis and misraim(99).

I think the satanical ranks are after 33 but I could be wrong. Actually even initiating into masonry is a sin imo cause you swear to secrecy and kinship to your fellow brothers over family and nation. That means you would potentially lie to coverup secrets and protect fellow masons.

reply to post by Erbal

Because our degree systems are not secret.

reply to post by EarthCitizen07

The Ancient and Primitive Rite of Memphis and Misraim is not recognized Masonic bodies in the US. Regular Masonic bodies around the world do not recognize them nor have they ever. So any recognized Scottish Rite Mason cannot join them nor can the Supreme Council at that. If it did the Grand Lodges would pull any recognition from them and the Scottish Rite would lose its membership.

The Grand College of Rites has a lot of documentation on it. It should also be noted that it doesn't "stem" from the Scottish Rite, they just took and plagiarized the Scottish Rite's first 33 degrees.

reply to post by Erbal

As an outsider, I'm sure it is confusing. Freemasonry is not a trademarked name so anyone can tag their organization with it. There are a lot of irregular/clandestine "Masonic" organizations out there.

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
reply to post by protocolsoflove

 

nice addition to the mix.

what about the 9-11 trajedy.......911(emergency call)...9*11=99

was my example good?

That is a very erudite observation.

Originally posted by KSigMason

The Ancient and Primitive Rite of Memphis and Misraim is not recognized Masonic bodies in the US. Regular Masonic bodies around the world do not recognize them nor have they ever. So any recognized Scottish Rite Mason cannot join them nor can the Supreme Council at that. If it did the Grand Lodges would pull any recognition from them and the Scottish Rite would lose its membership.

The Grand College of Rites has a lot of documentation on it. It should also be noted that it doesn't "stem" from the Scottish Rite, they just took and plagiarized the Scottish Rite's first 33 degrees.
.

What do you mean by regular? From my take on this it means that the rites of memphis and misraim are SUPERIOR to the scottish and york rites. Remember it starts from 34 and goes up to 99!

Plus these two combined rites are international in scope, and they do have an national sanctuary in the usa?

www.memphis-misraim.us...

reply to post by EarthCitizen07


These rites you speak of are also represented greatly in the United Nations building (meditation room symbolism for one example).

reply to post by EarthCitizen07

Regular as in recognized, as in they are recognized by a regular Grand Lodge who follows the ancient landmarks. As I said, the Rite of Memphis and Misraiim was never stemmed from the Scottish Rite, but plagiarized the Scottish Rite degree with their system. Never in America have they been recognized or regular. Nor does this irregular Rite have anything to do with the York Rite. It has as much relevance, authority, or superiority to the York Rite as the Scottish Rite does...none.

Any remnants of this Rite, even in the US, is not recognized and no regular Mason is allowed to join. As you can see from that link, they allow women to join. Regular Freemasonry doesn't.

The American York Rite is also international in scope as the American national bodies in fact have governance over Germany, Romania, Italy, Portugal, Phillipines, Mexico, and some others I can't think of off the top of my head.

Please help me understand the ROOT DISTINCTION, that is sans any and all layers, between regular and irregular Masonic lodges/orders.

From my perspective, when Masons claim no one knows the true origins/inspiration of Masonry and there is no authoritative power structure to this fraternity, but that irregular lodges don't follow some Masonic hallmarks, to me this sounds like there simply is not be a tangible distinction between regular and irregular because there is no tangible authority to make such a distinction... or there is a piece, or pieces, of incorrect/inaccurate information somewhere in this story.

Pure, unbiased logic and curiosity.

reply to post by Erbal

A recognized body is one who follows the Ancient Landmarks.

reply to post by KSigMason


Landmarks of unknown origin enforced by no one yet they remain standing? Landmarks of a secret origin let standing because they are strictly enforced? Yet every lodge is self-governing with no higher authority? If the landmarks vary and are open to interpretation, I literally do not understand how there is a distinction between regular and irregular.

Do you even know the root distinction between regular and irregular? Based entirely off this single response of yours, I'm not really sold you have full confidence you know the truth. (my opinion)

reply to post by Erbal

Here is an article on the Landmarks of Freemasonry.

The Lodge is subordinate to a Grand Lodge, and each Grand Lodge is sovereign and independent. The Landmarks don't vary, if you stray from them you will not be recognized. It's not that hard to follow the landmarks.

Do you even know the root distinction between regular and irregular? Based entirely off this single response of yours, I'm not really sold you have full confidence you know the truth. (my opinion)

Yes, it's those who follows the Landmarks. I also refer you to #25.

reply to post by KSigMason


Am I mistaken or did you link me Landmarks, originally written by Mackey, explicitly stating, and I quote: The Landmarks of Freemasonry, as compiled by Albert Mackey in 1858, are not universally accepted; they are not really landmarks at all.

The other link goes into the history and explains how the landmarks weren't written, or even attempted to be written, until 1858. And the first version by Mackey was pretty much invalid. It then goes on to state that most versions of landmarks don't pass the test of what can be considered a landmark.

So when I asked what is the root distinction between regular and irregular lodges, you feel the totally subjective and unclear subject of landmarks is that distinction?

Honestly, I am more confused than before I asked my question. Am I interpreting your answer, and more importantly your links, incorrectly? If so, please correct me because I am NOW under the impression there really is no root distinction between regular and irregular beyond simply a matter of opinion, whereas before I was under the impression I simply did not know the root distinction... what is the truth?

reply to post by Erbal


I said it once and I'll say it again. Smoke screens. Intentional confusion.