The Bin Laden Dialysis myth.

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posted on May, 24 2012 @ 01:44 PM
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This is a popular claim regarding the health of Osama Bin laden I have often heard both on the internet and among my peers, that Bin Laden required regular Renal Dialysis for kidney failure. The implications of such a claim are monumental; firstly it begs the question that if the world’s most wanted man was requiring regular renal dialysis how did he evade capture for so long. More controversial is that it also raises the possibility that Osama Bin Laden died of natural causes before the raid in Abbottabad last May by NSWDG and the government are covering something up.

However as this thread seeks to show such worrying questions are entirely unfounded as the truth is that Osama Bin Laden never had kidney failure and never required any renal dialysis. It is a myth to claim that Bin laden required renal dialysis however it is a understandable misconception that I hope this thread will be able to clear up and for want of a better word, “debunk”.

It is indeed understandable that people would hold this misconception as at one point it was a popular focus point for the mainstream media, the alternative media and even a few high profile public figures. As such to effectively demonstrate the nature of the “Bin Laden Dialysis myth” one first look at the original source of the claim which was first published in the Le Figaro magazine on October 11 2001. The article focus on the allegation that a CIA agent met with Bin Laden sometime in July 2001 when according the article:



As early as March, 2000, 'Asia Week,' published in Hong Kong, expressed concern for bin Laden's health, describing a serious medical problem that could put his life in danger because of "a kidney infection that is propagating itself to the liver and requires specialized treatment According to authorized sources, bin Laden had mobile dialysis equipment shipped to his hideout in Kandahar in the first part of 2000”

The CIA met Bin Laden while undergoing treatment at an American Hospital last July in Dubai

At the time this article was cited by several mainstream media outlets and it became a popular reference for claims that Bin Laden was on renal dialysis. One such article at the time came from the respected UK news paper the Guardian which cited Le Figaro when discussing accusations that Bin Laden was on renal dialysis but also expanded on the claims of a CIA visitor.


The CIA chief was seen in the lift, on his way to see Bin Laden, and later, it is alleged, boasted to friends about his contact. He was recalled to Washington soon afterwards.

Intelligence sources say that another CIA agent was also present;
CIA agent alleged to have met Bin Laden in July

Before addressing the claim that Bin Laden was requiring regular renal dialysis it is perhaps pertinent to put the claim that he was visited by the CIA. The largest issue with this claim is that it is illogical, at the time Bin Laden was the most wanted terrorist in the sights of the American government after his 1998 attacks against American embassies in Africa and the bombing of the USS Cole. With this historical backdrop we are expected to believe that he would walk in to a busy American hospital but not only that, but that the CIA would send the station chief and an aid to his bedside. Even if one wants to assume that Bin Laden is a CIA stooge (a debate for another time), this is completely illogical and it is an allegation that both sides deny. In December 2001 a Pakistani journalist named Hamid Mir conducted one of the last known interviews with Bin Laden, during this interview he proposed the following.


“A French newspaper has claimed that you have a kidney problem and have secretly gone to Dubai for treatment last year [2000]. Is that correct?” Bin Laden responded: “My kidneys are all right. I did not go to Dubai last year
Osama debunks a myth

So if Bin Laden denies this and the journalist did not note any evidence of Kidney problesm it does now poses the question where exactly did Le Figaro get their information from? According to the article it came from another magazine called Asia Week claiming that Bin Laden was in poor health with "a kidney infection that is propagating itself to the liver and requires specialized treatment". It does not quote Asia week on the Dialysis claim, this is a claim made only by Le Figaro. It is difficult to delve further into the claims in Asia week as the paper closed in late 2001. Despite this it may be possible to spectulate, its is noteworthy at this point that no individual who has ever came into contact with Bin Laden has ever noted any kidney problems or the need for renal Dialysis however one reported did once note that


The man the U.S. calls Public Enemy Number One appeared to be in good health, though he admitted to a sore throat and a bad back. He continually sipped water from a cup, and Yusufzai caught him on videotape walking with the aid of a stick “
Wrath of God

It would seem that this seemingly casual observation led to this outrageous statement made by some in the mainstream media at the time, which in turn may have lead to Asia Weeks claim.



A journalist who visited bin Laden's camp in the 1990s reported camp members saying that bin Laden had a kidney problem requiring him to drink large amounts of water. The journalist witnessed bin Laden constantly sipping water and green tea in the time they spent together
Health & Medical History of Osama bin Laden

If one follows this claim its goes form a claim by a journalist who interviewed Bin laden noting that “he continually sipped water” to a urine problem then Asia Week turning this into a kidney problem. It seems that this is the foundation of Le Figaro’s claim that Bin Laden was on renal Dialysis, it was like Chinese whispers, the story got changed, exaggerated and expanded on until Le Figaro claimed he was on Kidney dialysis. It would appear that the only basis for assuming Bin Laden was requiring renal dialysis came from a journalists observation that he was continually sipping water and from this we get “Bin Laden required renal dialysis”. What is perhaps most damming is that this interview was conducted in January 1999 where it was noted that Bin Laden was in good health, yet according to Le Figaro only months later Bin Laden had developed Kidney failure and was hospitalised, their claim has never been independently verified




posted on May, 24 2012 @ 01:44 PM
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In 2006 the Washington Times publish a excellent article that sought to put a end to this popular urban myth regarding Bin Laden’s kidneys. The article noted that


At first, Gen. Pervez Musharraf seemed to strongly endorse the notion, in January 2002. “I think now, frankly, he is dead for the reason he is a patient, he is a kidney patient,” he told CNN. Gen. Musharraf added, “Pakistan knew bin Laden took two dialysis machines into Afghanistan.

One was specifically for his own personal use.” Over the next few years, bin Laden would appear alive and well in a string of audio and video tapes. In December 2004, when Gen. Musharraf again sat down with CNN’s Wolf Blitzer, he all but reversed himself.


The article goes on reinforce the fact that nobody who ever came into personal contact with Bin Laden ever noted his need for renal dialysis and then went quote Bin Laden’s personal doctor Dr. Aziz



bin Laden “was walking. He was healthy.” Aziz was emphatic: “I did not see any evidence of kidney disease

“When I hear these reports, I laugh. I did not see any evidence.”
Osama debunks a myth

The fundamental message to takeaway form this thread is that regardless of your view on the truth behind Osama Bin Laden it is wrong to assume he required renal dialysis.

Thanks!.
edit on 24-5-2012 by OtherSideOfTheCoin because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 24 2012 @ 03:13 PM
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reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin
 
Some potential problems I see with this:
1) Regarding the American Hospital in Dubai, I don't think it's actually an american hospital - as I understand it, it's a hospital offering medical care up to Western standards with doctors training in the West, or the equivalent thereof.
2) As to the CIA - your incredulity here is a perfect example of the plausible deniability that would actually allow them to have visited him just as discussed...I mean seriously - NO ONE would believe that, would they? And they might indeed have various incentives to visit, given his argued roles as asset, patsy, and what all else might have been thrown out there.
3) Some various references to his health are from early 1999, etc. - the article mentioning the hospital stay says he ordered the equipment and was in the hospital afterward, in 2000.
4) The different sources (some of them, at least) afterward advising of no issues should, in my opinion, be to some degree also held as suspect as the GlobalResearch artcle. Also, given the fact that we've got more-or-less verified fradulent Osamas appearing in various videos years after 9/11, I would say we also have to consider it likely that false bin Ladens may have been interviewed by even the valid sources.
5) Even the Health & Medical History link you posted has a section on the kidney issues, with reference to doctors analyzing his phots and considering his appearance to possibly be related to diabetes and kidney trouble.

So...it's entirely possible that there's nothing to the claim, but it looks like it still remains possible that there IS in fact actually something to it, as well.

I hate rabbit holes.

Take care.



posted on May, 25 2012 @ 05:41 AM
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reply to post by Praetorius
 


Thank you for your considered reply, I appreciate your criticism please allow me to address it.


1) Regarding the American Hospital in Dubai, I don't think it's actually an american hospital - as I understand it, it's a hospital offering medical care up to Western standards with doctors training in the West, or the equivalent thereof.


It is called “American Hospital Dubai”, in effect it is a American hospital but in Dubai. It achieves this by having the hospital designed to meet American standards of care, it is accredited by the largest accreditor of hospitals in America , the American joint commission on accreditation of health care organisations. In addition to this all doctors have western training and the hospital laboratory is accredited by the American college of pathologists and the majority of senior management are Americans. In effect it is a “American hospital” located in Dubai providing American standards of care in Dubai by American and western trained health care professionals.

I know that this is something you have effectively said yourself, all I am doing is pointing out just how Americanised this hospital really is. And this is the hospital it is alleged that Bin Laden attended, a hospital that was openly American. It makes no sense even if he was to have been a “CIA stooge” that he would step foot inside such a hospital.



2) As to the CIA - your incredulity here is a perfect example of the plausible deniability that would actually allow them to have visited him just as discussed...I mean seriously - NO ONE would believe that, would they? And they might indeed have various incentives to visit, given his argued roles as asset, patsy, and what all else might have been thrown out there.


The idea that the CIA station Chief and another CIA agent would go and visit the most wanted terrorist in the world openly while he was in hospital is just illogical and laughable. The idea that they would do it because “no one would ever believe that” is equally flawed the risk is massive. This CIA visit actually makes even less sense if one takes the view that bin laden was a “CIA stooge”. The CIA would have been visiting him in his capacity as a CIA asset openly in the hospital most likely in the knowledge that his face was soon to become the face on everyone’s TV screens after 9/11. But even before the Bin Laden was the most wanted terrorist on the planet. Weather you take the view that bin laden was a CIA stooge or that he was Bin laden the terrorist mastermind independent from the CIA, the allegation that he was visited by the CIA while in hospital makes absolutely no sense.


3) Some various references to his health are from early 1999, etc. - the article mentioning the hospital stay says he ordered the equipment and was in the hospital afterward, in 2000.

There are a few articles that discuss his health before the Le Figaro article came out, however this is the first that alleged that he was requiring renal dialysis and it is this article that formed the basis of subsequent articles in both the MSN and alternative media that he was on kidney dialysis. In this thread I have tried to show how Le Figaro came to this conclusion by looking over pervious articles regarding his health, some of which I have sourced in my thread to provide the reader with a narrative as to how they reached their conclusion. What is most important to remember is that nobody who has ever been in physical contact with Bin Laden has ever said that he showed any sings he was requiring kidney dialysis.



4) The different sources (some of them, at least) afterward advising of no issues should, in my opinion, be to some degree also held as suspect as the GlobalResearch artcle. Also, given the fact that we've got more-or-less verified fradulent Osamas appearing in various videos years after 9/11, I would say we also have to consider it likely that false bin Ladens may have been interviewed by even the valid sources.

The globalresearch article is only linked because it contains a translation of the original Le Figaro article. I understand that some may wish to argue that the videos of Bin Laden may have been faked for whatever reason however that is not the remit of this thread. This thread is to discuss the allegation that he was on Kidney dialysis. One may make the argument that he died of kidney dialysis and for that reason “they” made fake videos. However as I have shown in this thread he did not have renal disease and as such this cannot be the reason for these “faked video’s” there must be some other reason for them or it may be that they are genuine. Regardless it is not the purpose of this thread to debate this point.



posted on May, 25 2012 @ 05:47 AM
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reply to post by Praetorius
 





5) Even the Health & Medical History link you posted has a section on the kidney issues, with reference to doctors analyzing his phots and considering his appearance to possibly be related to diabetes and kidney trouble.


That is indeed true however the article does not say he required any kidney dialysis, it only discusses the possibility of him requiring kidney dialysis that is based on some reports and photos of him. It is not based on any medical examinations, it does also point out that the CIA at first took the understanding that Bin Laden did indeed require kidney dialysis but upon reviewing the evidence concluded that this was false and that bin laden did not require dialysis.



So...it's entirely possible that there's nothing to the claim, but it looks like it still remains possible that there IS in fact actually something to it, as well.

There is actually no evidence to suggest that it is remotely possible that Bin Laden required dialysis. The biggest point to takeaway form this is that nobody who ever had any physical contact with Bin Laden ever reported that he required kidney dialysis they almost all describe him as being healthy.

Thanks!



posted on May, 25 2012 @ 09:27 AM
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reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin
 
Was there ever any mention of dialysis equipment being found in the compound where he is presumed to have been killed by the SEAL team in Pakistan?



posted on May, 25 2012 @ 09:29 AM
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reply to post by butcherguy
 


Nope none nothing to suggest he had kidney failure, they found some herbal stuff for impotence though



posted on May, 25 2012 @ 09:36 AM
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Originally posted by OtherSideOfTheCoin
reply to post by butcherguy
 


Nope none nothing to suggest he had kidney failure, they found some herbal stuff for impotence though
Well that is interesting. If he was supposed to be on dialysis, one would expect the equipment to be there, especially since we have been told that he never left that compound.



posted on May, 25 2012 @ 09:39 AM
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reply to post by butcherguy
 


Well that is the point, he was never on renal dialysis, and years before the raid American intelligence had discounted this as a possibility. It’s just a understandable popular urban myth that Bin Laden was on dialysis.



posted on May, 25 2012 @ 09:50 AM
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reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin
 
Yes, and the difficulties of supporting kidney dialysis in a cave are not insurmountable, but they would present a problem that likely would have ruled it out. Delivery of the fresh dialysis solution would have made tracking down bin Laden a much easier task.



posted on May, 27 2012 @ 01:47 PM
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reply to post by butcherguy
 





Delivery of the fresh dialysis solution would have made tracking down bin Laden a much easier task.


That is actually a very good point that I neglected to point out in my op, if Bin Laden really did require renal dialysis then it would have made it much easier for western forces to have naturalised him sooner.

Thanks for pointing that out!



posted on Jun, 2 2012 @ 10:26 PM
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Osama was a CIA construct, hes complete fabrication, youre incredibly slow if you believe the official story.



posted on Jun, 4 2012 @ 01:04 PM
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reply to post by ultimatefighter2014
 


Care to perhaps actually comment on the topic of the thread rather that posting one random line that has nothing to do with my thread and achieves nothing.

It says a lot about the state of ATS that I write a thread like this that is based on research and has taken time to write and gets only 4 starts, your pointless remark gets 2. I mean really ATS, do none of you care unless it’s about an alien abduction or 9/11 symbols found in simpsons episodes.





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