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Man Ticketed For Dropping Money On Ground

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posted on May, 24 2012 @ 09:28 AM
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reply to post by FortAnthem
 


I couldn't agree more. Very well put. I have a feeling that the judge will quickly toss this one out. Who knows maybe this will cause enough of an uproar that the citezens in that area will push for a change in the law.




posted on May, 24 2012 @ 09:32 AM
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reply to post by getreadyalready
 


Not all panhandlers are bad people. Although with things the way they are right now there are those out doing it who don't truly need it. I will always help the veterans but first I question them to see if they are lying. I don't have much money but I always try to help the less fortunate when I can.



posted on May, 24 2012 @ 09:34 AM
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reply to post by Skewed
 


I like the way you think...

I bet if he does take it that far, that is what happens. It's just stupid that he has to deal with any of it in the first place.



posted on May, 24 2012 @ 09:35 AM
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Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by usmc0311
 



Put them in the pound, if no one comes along to adopt them in a few weeks,
edit on 24-5-2012 by getreadyalready because: (no reason given)


I could support something like that. Could be viewed as a form of slavery but under certain conditions it could still work. And in cases where people wish to live on handouts and entitlements, then fine, put them on a farm to work and the "sponsor" pick up the tab for their overall care while the dependents work to pay for their care the farmer provides.
edit on 24-5-2012 by Skewed because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 24 2012 @ 09:41 AM
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reply to post by usmc0311
 


I would imagine it would be easy for a lawyer to prove he didn't litter, but that he simply dropped money.
As for the panhandler, I depends on if they can locate him. I'm sure if the other guy isn't charged and they do know how to find the disabled guy, he will get charged. Someone has to pay for it, right?



posted on May, 24 2012 @ 09:50 AM
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Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by usmc0311
 

We have a guy here in my town that is constantly ticketed for riding his bike in a thong bikini. He is an older man, and he is a little mentally disabled, due to being ran over while riding his bike! He has been ticketed multiple times for indecent exposure, yet the FIVE (5) people that have hit him with their cars and severely injured him over the past 2 years have never been ticketed! How can you hit a pedestrian, in a bike lane, or on a sidewalk, and not be ticketed? Yet, minding your own business in a thong bikini gets you ticketed multiple times?

Personally, I think we should put the panhandlers to sleep. Put them in the pound, if no one comes along to adopt them in a few weeks, then euthanize them.


I seriously question your thought process today. First you point out a case that points to repeated injustice but instead of a remedy, your way of solving the injustice is to kill the victim.



posted on May, 24 2012 @ 09:53 AM
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Originally posted by usmc0311
reply to post by getreadyalready
 


Not all panhandlers are bad people. Although with things the way they are right now there are those out doing it who don't truly need it. I will always help the veterans but first I question them to see if they are lying. I don't have much money but I always try to help the less fortunate when I can.


I've relayed my experiences a few times, but I'll do a short version for this thread.

We used to have a teen center, dance club, mini golf, go-kart track thingy. Behind it was a heavily used railroad track and some industrial area. Homeless people lived on the tracks. We tried to help them without realizing the dangers. We let them take water from our spigots, left over construction material, old carpet, etc, etc. Kids would also walk down the tracks to get to our club.

So, one day, I let my dog out to pee on a gorgeous Sunday morning, and she doesn't come back. Long search, we get others involved, see this homeless man sharpening a hatchet, but he claims to not have seen the dog. A little later we find the dog, beheaded by a hatchet and staged to look like a train hit her. There had been no train, hatchet marks clearly visible. What happened next was highly unfortunate, not worth rehashing, but several hours later when the smoke cleared, the man was in jail and a friendly detective made sure we were not.

Anyhow, turns out the man had been released from a 25 year stint in Leavenworth max security after he murdered his wife and served his time. He was mentally unstable, and violent. He was released from felony animal cruelty charges after only 48 hours, because he did not have a valid address to serve the warrant on? He was in jail, but whatever, he was free after 48 hours, but he was hit by a truck shortly thereafter. His camp had stolen purses, kids clothing, and other disturbing items. As we ransacked the other homeless camps, we found similar items, including my Mom's purse that had been stolen from her several months before. We went a bit crazy on an anti-homeless crusade and cleaned up the railroad tracks barely skirting the edge of the law.

Guilt got the better of us, and we decided to try to help the ones that could be helped. So, we cooperated with some construction companies and farm companies, and we created little cabins where people could live, work, establish a residence, get public assistance, learn a trade, get healthy, etc., etc. We run them off the railroad tracks, but we offered them all a better alternative. We made sure the dangers were eliminated for the kids, but we also made sure anyone that wanted to try and get off the street had every opportunity to do so.

Long story short, out of hundreds of attempts to help people, there was only a single success story, but there were many assaults, thefts, and arrests of the people we were trying to help.

Also, I have maintained some of those contacts, and over the years anytime I see a "will work for food" sign, I ALWAYS offer to buy food or get them work or both. About 1 time out of 50 someone takes me up on the offer to buy them a cheeseburger, only 1 time out of many hundreds has someone offered to take some available work, and that guy disappeared after 30 minutes of picking up trash in our parking lot, and he didn't even stop by to get his cash, he just disappeared.

These folks do not need money, or work, or food. They need mental help, medication, or incarceration. That's my $0.02. They are a danger to be on the streets.

After our little crusade, one of the guys we ran off ended up murdering a 16 year old girl behind a greyhound bus station where he relocated to.

The ones that want help, deserve help in the form of work skills, shelter, food, and opportunity, but in my experience that is about 0.1% of the folks on the street, and the other 99.9% need to be dead or in jail.



posted on May, 24 2012 @ 09:56 AM
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th worst part is the city of celeveland is concerned with their image, which is why they don't want panhandlers (their term) soliciting near roads, which is the real reson for the ticket



Cleveland police can’t comment on the ticket at this time but according to a spokesperson there is another code that may have been violated.

There is a code which states that it is illegal to panhandle or give money to panhandlers near a highway or street including a berm, shoulder, treelawn or sidewalk.

Section No: 471.06 states in part that “No person shall stand on a highway for the purpose of soliciting…contributions…”

It also reads that “No driver” is to “transfer currency….to any person standing on a street or highway.”



posted on May, 24 2012 @ 10:16 AM
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reply to post by getreadyalready
 


Now I really understand where you are coming from. Thanks for sharing. I think if I were in your postion I would have done the same thing. If they are criminals and mentally unstable, they deffinitely need to sytay off the streets. I could also see where large groups living together can be a problem, especially in the case you mentioned.



posted on May, 24 2012 @ 11:23 AM
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reply to post by aboutface
 



I seriously question your thought process today. First you point out a case that points to repeated injustice but instead of a remedy, your way of solving the injustice is to kill the victim.


I wasn't very clear in my description, nor my sarcasm. While I was being sarcastic about the humane society type shelters for homeless people, I was also somewhat serious.

The naked bicycler we have here is not homeless. He was always disabled, but he is actually a very coherent and articulate man, with a home, and capable of living independently. After his first accident, he was left with some brain damage, and it made him a little "simpler." The idea that he needed to wear a clothes on a hot day just didn't make sense anymore, and he started riding in the minimum clothing necessary. He has been hit by cars 4 times since that first one, and 2 of those times required hospitalization. No one has ever been ticketed for hitting him, but the complaints for him showing too much skin have caused him to be cited and arrested, even though he has never broken the letter of the law. He is a true "victim" of injustice and unfair application of the law, while the homeless people I have interacted with are not victims at all.

I realize I wasn't real clear on either point, but I hope you read my follow up post with my experiences dealing with homeless people.

Just last week a guy approached me at a gas station with a gas can, and he asked for $5 to get gas to help he and his family get back to Jacksonville. I told him I'd be happy to fill up the can and give him a ride back to his car. He looked concerned, then frustrated and said what he really needed was $5. I once again offered to fill up the can, but he said he needed the cash for food. SO, I offered to walk him inside the store and buy him some food. He cussed and muttered something under his breath and wandered off. He didn't have a family, he didn't have a car, he didn't need gas, and he didn't need food. It was a scam to get cash!



posted on May, 24 2012 @ 11:36 AM
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Originally posted by getreadyalready
I've relayed my experiences a few times, but I'll do a short version for this thread.

We used to have a teen center, dance club, mini golf, go-kart track thingy. Behind it was a heavily used railroad track and some industrial area. Homeless people lived on the tracks. We tried to help them without realizing the dangers. We let them take water from our spigots, left over construction material, old carpet, etc, etc. Kids would also walk down the tracks to get to our club.

So, one day, I let my dog out to pee on a gorgeous Sunday morning, and she doesn't come back. Long search, we get others involved, see this homeless man sharpening a hatchet, but he claims to not have seen the dog. A little later we find the dog, beheaded by a hatchet and staged to look like a train hit her. There had been no train, hatchet marks clearly visible. What happened next was highly unfortunate, not worth rehashing, but several hours later when the smoke cleared, the man was in jail and a friendly detective made sure we were not.

Anyhow, turns out the man had been released from a 25 year stint in Leavenworth max security after he murdered his wife and served his time. He was mentally unstable, and violent. He was released from felony animal cruelty charges after only 48 hours, because he did not have a valid address to serve the warrant on? He was in jail, but whatever, he was free after 48 hours, but he was hit by a truck shortly thereafter. His camp had stolen purses, kids clothing, and other disturbing items. As we ransacked the other homeless camps, we found similar items, including my Mom's purse that had been stolen from her several months before. We went a bit crazy on an anti-homeless crusade and cleaned up the railroad tracks barely skirting the edge of the law.

Guilt got the better of us, and we decided to try to help the ones that could be helped. So, we cooperated with some construction companies and farm companies, and we created little cabins where people could live, work, establish a residence, get public assistance, learn a trade, get healthy, etc., etc. We run them off the railroad tracks, but we offered them all a better alternative. We made sure the dangers were eliminated for the kids, but we also made sure anyone that wanted to try and get off the street had every opportunity to do so.

Long story short, out of hundreds of attempts to help people, there was only a single success story, but there were many assaults, thefts, and arrests of the people we were trying to help.

Also, I have maintained some of those contacts, and over the years anytime I see a "will work for food" sign, I ALWAYS offer to buy food or get them work or both. About 1 time out of 50 someone takes me up on the offer to buy them a cheeseburger, only 1 time out of many hundreds has someone offered to take some available work, and that guy disappeared after 30 minutes of picking up trash in our parking lot, and he didn't even stop by to get his cash, he just disappeared.

These folks do not need money, or work, or food. They need mental help, medication, or incarceration. That's my $0.02. They are a danger to be on the streets.

After our little crusade, one of the guys we ran off ended up murdering a 16 year old girl behind a greyhound bus station where he relocated to.

The ones that want help, deserve help in the form of work skills, shelter, food, and opportunity, but in my experience that is about 0.1% of the folks on the street, and the other 99.9% need to be dead or in jail.


Interesting story and I think it does help a bit to make someone like myself understand your line of thinking. Thank you for sharing your story.

That being said, what about that one success story?

Do you realize that these hypothetical solutions of euthanizing the homeless that you are suggesting, you may have very easily euthanized that one success story. So I guess my question to you is this.... would you be willing to kill (and lets face it, euthanize is just a nice word for killing), that one success story in order to rid yourself of the others who do not really want help?

For me it is much like having a death penalty. I fully support flipping a switch and burning up a child molester or a mass murder, but is it worth killing off 10 child molesters and removing them from this earth if you kill just one innocent man who did no wrong?



posted on May, 24 2012 @ 12:01 PM
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reply to post by MrWendal
 


It's a great question, and I'm on the fence about it. Ideally, I'd like to think we could have it both ways. We could offer up every opportunity in the world for someone to improve their situation. As in the death penalty, I'd like to think we could reform prisons to offer every opportunity for rehabilitation. But, in the end, if we fail in all our attempts, we just can't let dangerous people go free, and we can't afford to lock them up forever, so why drag out the inevitable?

Now, I realize I didn't exactly answer your question. Is it worth destroying one innocent person to get 10 guilty parties. Yes. How many innocent parties will be harmed by those 10 guilty ones? If we have a civilized society for the purpose of the "greater good," then 10 dangerous people will harm much more than 1 innocent, so if we have to kill 1 innocent to eliminate the 10 guilty, it is still a worthwhile endeavor. If the 1 innocent party were me or a family member, I'm sure I would feel differently!

For me, that scenario is simple, but we know in real life it is never that simple. Our system is so flawed, do we really ever know who is innocent and who is guilty? 10 guilty to 1 innocent is worthwhile, but what about 8 to 2, or 6 to 4? Then I would not be so haste to answer. We certainly don't want to be killing innocent folks all the time just to get to the guilty ones. I can't say where the line is drawn, I don't know, and I'm sure it is all about perception. If I'm the victim of a crime, I want revenge, but if I'm a falsely accused party, I want fairness. It will never be perfect.



posted on May, 24 2012 @ 01:32 PM
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reply to post by usmc0311
 


I guess this means the U.S. Dollar is officially garbage. What is racketeering again?



posted on May, 26 2012 @ 06:20 PM
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reply to post by getreadyalready
 


Perhaps you are viewing it a bit off track.

You say if you are the victim you want revenge, that is part of the problem. Shouldn't we strive to seek Justice rather than revenge?



posted on May, 27 2012 @ 02:45 PM
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Originally posted by MrWendal
reply to post by getreadyalready
 


Perhaps you are viewing it a bit off track.

You say if you are the victim you want revenge, that is part of the problem. Shouldn't we strive to seek Justice rather than revenge?


Yes we should strive to seek justice rather than revenge, but I know my heart, and if someone in my family was hurt either intentionally, or by someone else's boneheadedness that was preventable, then I would probably not want justice, I would probably want revenge in a disproportionate amount!

I'm not saying it is correct. The ideal is to move towards equality and justice, but I'm just not that evolved yet, and I would want blood.
edit on 27-5-2012 by getreadyalready because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 27 2012 @ 03:22 PM
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reply to post by usmc0311
 




I think this is ridiculous. How can states make it illegal to give to the less fortunate. The fact that they are charging him with litering just shows all they want is money, and not justice.


You're blowing this way out of proportion, and so is the MSM.

Firstly, yes, it's a ridiculous ticket....if the officer new that the man had dropped money and it wasn't an intentional act of littering. In my view, it's likely the driver can beat this ticket pretty easily when he explains the circumstances because it wasn't as if he was throwing trash out the window.

Any other laws that were broken pertaining to giving money to panhandlers on the street while you're in a car are irrelevant here because the officer failed to cite the driver for that violation. The fact that the police spokesperson tried to deflect away from the littering ticket by implying "Well, if he didn't litter, there's another law he broke" is lame at best and unprofessional.

The law forbidding panhandlers from soliciting money from drivers and drivers from handing money to panhandlers is there to prevent pedestrian panhandlers from being struck by cars and to prevent drivers from being distracted and impeding the flow of traffic.

This is nothing to get riled up about. Probably not the best judgment on the part of the cop who issued the ticket, but that doesn't mean people need to get their panties in a bunch over it.



posted on May, 27 2012 @ 04:02 PM
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Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by MrWendal
 




Now, I realize I didn't exactly answer your question. Is it worth destroying one innocent person to get 10 guilty parties. Yes. How many innocent parties will be harmed by those 10 guilty ones? If we have a civilized society for the purpose of the "greater good," then 10 dangerous people will harm much more than 1 innocent, so if we have to kill 1 innocent to eliminate the 10 guilty, it is still a worthwhile endeavor. If the 1 innocent party were me or a family member, I'm sure I would feel differently!


I'm sure you would.

GRA, Your posts in this thread kinda shock me....and then, on the other hand, they don't.

On the topic in the OP, I hate cops that accept and crave the power trip. There was no need to inject himself in a communication and exchange between two people. A lot of cops get addicted to the "Turn it on!" aspect of their training. The initial contact police officers train constantly to achieve is adreneline-filled. TAKE control-maintain control. Too bad some cops look for easy pickings to train on in the field. I think this is a good example of this. 20 years ago, the panhandler would have been usher on his way and the guy with a buck would have shrugged and put the buck back in his pocket and walked away.

Meh.

Now, I own a house with no mortgage, two vehicles for me and the missus and I own my own service business.

I used to be homeless. Jobless. A bum. I never panhandled, but, I had a lot of pals. The local cops all knew who I was. They'd wave. They'd check on me. They still do wave when they see me and recognize me. Had they hassled me more, I doubt I'd be free of the debt incurred of trivial tickets they could have ticketed me with.
I was lucky. I didn't like being homeless. I know a few guys that do, though.
I have one very close friend who lives in his van 365 days a year. He has a full-time job and a heck of a nice van and knows the prices and perks of his lifestyle. I'd trust the guy with my handicapped daughter any day of the week, for a week, whenever. His being homeless has nothing to do with my judgement of him as a human. As a human, he's tops.
He doesn't think homeless people should be put to sleep. (Facepalm)

Neither do I.

A lot of the homeless in America are veterans. Nice sentiment for Memorial Day Weekend.

Maybe that needle can be made available at the local VA Hospital.

Sorry, but, I'm irked by the concept of just killing off people whose purpose waned to insignificant. That's labeling people as "Second class citizens" and it's wrong in my opinion.

Gah. Stopping now.

Cuhail



posted on May, 27 2012 @ 08:38 PM
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reply to post by Cuhail
 


Some of the homeless people are vets, but that doesn't excuse their behavior. You said it yourself, you never panhandled, and you brought yourself up out of the trenches and have a missus, and a house now. Your friend has a van, and a job.

The majority of homeless people are mentally ill people that don't like taking their meds. My ex-wife had an uncle that way, and we got him out of trouble time and time again, but he would always go off his meds and hit the roads until he got arrested for fighting, or until he got injured from fighting and we'd get a call from the hospital. It was hell on his mother and brothers. He was a decent guy when he took his meds, but he was a violent psychopath that thought he was a communist and thought everyone else in the world was KGB. His psychopathy was '___' induced. The 60's were not kind to him.

I was at Walmart a few weeks ago when a pantless, bleeding, obese, homeless man came in looking for help. Seems the other homeless men in the camp beside the Walmart decided to beat him up and steal his pants. The Walmart folks were nice enough to throw a robe around him and give him a chair and some first aid while they waited on the cops to arrive. Still quite a shock to see a 300lb pantsless man wandering around near the checkouts of walmart, bleeding, and rambling on incoherently.

Homeless camps are dangerous. The cops are negligent in their duty if they don't break them up and move them on down the line. No two ways about it.



posted on May, 27 2012 @ 08:38 PM
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reply to post by Cuhail
 


Shelters are not much better. I've relayed this story a few times, but here goes again.

Our shelter here in Tallahassee was live on the news about two years ago begging for help on the coldest night of the year. They were full, and some people were going to have to sleep outside, and they were asking the citizens for any help they could provide. I had a good survival stash, so I took 5 or 6 old quilts, and several pillows, and some heat packs, and several aluminum shock blankets that were the nice type that wrap around and cinch up and have hoods. They are supposed to hold in 97% of one's body heat in subzero temperatures. It should have been enough to keep at least a dozen people warm even on the 15 degree night outside the shelter. When I showed up to drop it off, no one knew what to do with it, and finally a cook came out and showed me where to unload it.

My brother called while I was dropping off, and he decided to help too. He showed up at the shelter about an hour later, and he happened to notice my shock blankets and a quilt that he recognized, and it was all in the trash. He asked them why it was in the trash, turns out they don't accept "used" items, and nobody knew what the shock blankets were, or how to use them, so they just threw them out.


Turns out, they appeared on the news on that cold night just to solicit cash donations, nothing more. They had no intentions of helping the extra people seeking help, they just wanted to cry wolf to raise some money. BIG MISTAKE, because I was the business manager for a local foundation, and we stopped giving anything to the shelter, and I am a Mason, and a Shriner, and I make sure all the potential donors hear about my experience and think twice before donating to those crooks.

Like I said earlier, I'll never turn away someone looking for food or work, but I HATE crooks, liars, scammers, and thieves. In my experience 99% of them are the latter.
edit on 27-5-2012 by getreadyalready because: (no reason given)

edit on 27-5-2012 by getreadyalready because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 27 2012 @ 08:53 PM
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"Proud to Serve"
upload.wikimedia.org...

"Service - Integrity - Pride"
pics4.city-data.com...



Just refuse to pay the fine on grounds the charge is absurd.

If a judge determines you're in breach, have him arrested for being complicit in the charge of absurdity.

One is no more ridiculous than the other.


edit on 27-5-2012 by HIWATT because: add descrip.



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