Fundamentalist Christianity: a mind control CULT?

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by EarthCitizen23

 

I would suggest not giving up. Family is too important to loose.
As long as someone it trying, the fight is not lost.
Good luck.

I would agree. My Mom completely disowned me in 1987 because I refused to be like she was. She then moved to another State and did not tell any of us kids where she was. Only her brother knew, and then only after she had a stroke and was in the hospital, near death. He told me she died calling for her children, whom she had deserted and demonized. My Mom was a strong believer in Hell, and the Afterlife she created no doubt is just like she envisioned. I just hope she wakes up and gets out.
I sometimes wish we could have gotten on better, I simply could not be like her, or like any Fundy, it is not me. I cannot be hateful either, and let me tell you, she hated everything "worldly" and "un-Christian." And loudly proclaimed her hate too. For the record, she was a "Born Again Pentecostal" Church of God. Shouting, speaking in tongues, rolling on the floor, all that.

Originally posted by KSigMason
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

You realize that this thread is about the fundamentalist Christians not Christianity as a whole right? Don't be so defensive.

By fundamentalists, we mean those who see the Word of God as accurate. The linguistics are not where the word is found. The Words used to describe God are locked in Symbol. The words men used to show the symbols are derived form the history that was produced by God to reveal the Living Word (Christ). The words may have scribal errors or mistranslations, yet the symbol remains locked by the story. Context provides the means to resolving the paradox on the surface of the document to reveal the hidden meaning in the symbols. In the end, it's a mirror reflecting Christ. We see our own image when we look into the mirror. It's the cleanest mirror we possess. In this respect, inerrancy is the only issue. Fundamentalism only defines trust and belief in God, expressed by faith. We cling to faith and trust in God that what He said is accurate. Either God is truth or he is not.

I can only relate my reasons to see truth emerge and God reveal himself. You can't be a Christian apart from believing in God as revealed in the Bible. His Word is fulfilled in Christ. Christ is the Living Word and entirely inerrant.

Believing in God is not a cult. A religious ritual that denies truth is a cult. Failing to see God is simple foolishness. Claiming the name Christian apart from trusting that the Living Word is true is not faith. True Christianity is claiming the name and the character that is expressed in the Word. In the end, we all fail. Christ must be revealed in us to come to God fully. Before this happens, we all wait for salvation to come.

Hebrews 9

27 Just as people are destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, 28 so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

Job 19

23 “Oh, that my words were recorded,
that they were written on a scroll,
24 that they were inscribed with an iron tool on lead,
or engraved in rock forever!
25 I know that my redeemer lives,
and that in the end he will stand on the earth.
26 And after my skin has been destroyed,
yet in my flesh I will see God;
27 I myself will see him
with my own eyes —I, and not another.
How my heart yearns within me!

Can this hope be found on your own?

reply to post by EnochWasRight

The issue has never been about God or about the truth he reveals. The problem has always been with man. We are out of context with God.

I would agree with you. It is not the Divine Mother and Father. They do not wish our prayers and slave mentality, and they do not interfere with our decisions and ways. And to me it is just wrong to forget the Divine Mother. I have had many tel me there is no Mother, but how do you have an all male Godhead with no women at all? That is sexist at beast, and denial at the least. I think if the Christians actually recognized this, I may consider becoming one myself. I look around here on Earth, and read in the Bible, "As Above, So Below," and see EVERYTHING alive as male, and female, but then God is all male? This does not compute.

reply to post by EnochWasRight

I didn't attack you so don't try to be some martyr. You're throwing out red herrings to detract from the OP. Can you not debate the actual topic?

Do disagree that fundamentalists and extremists are cult-like? Our is it because the OP mentioned Christianity and now you are all defensive?

reply to post by EnochWasRight

So no criticism at all against radical Christianity? I see this thread struck a nerve. We're only criticizing the actions of the extremist not the doctrines of Christianity. I'm Christian and fundamentalists annoy the Hell out of me.

Originally posted by emsed1
reply to post by Klassified

 

As out there as it sounds I agree with you.

Having studied NLP and other systems it's clear that many fundamentalist preachers use (often crude) tactics to sway listeners.

Start with a group of people that are seeking answers and have maybe unconsciously opened their minds to suggestion.

Put them in a group of others of the same mindset.

Play soft rhythmic music in the background.

Preach to them in a repetitive iambic tone, saying certain words with more emphasis. IE instead of Jeezus, say JEEEAH--zuhuhs..... and instead of God, say GOh-AWd.

It's classic. Not extremely effective but classic. Take a look at Hitler's speeches... rhythmic, da da da DA da. da da da DA da! Pounding the fist in tempo...

Ultimately a person can only be influenced if they ALLOW themselves to be influenced. But if they are going in desperate and looking for an answer it's pretty easy to influence them.

NLP is only a description of how the mind is programmed by linguistics. We are all Neuro Linguistic Programmers if we speak words, take actions toward a goal or try to influence others with words and actions. Jesus called these people "Experts in the Law." He tagged three groups of experts: Priests (Sadducees and Pharisees), Builders (Masons who rejected Christ) and Moneychangers (Bankers). You are mentioning the false priests.

The manipulation of God's law always leads to debt. This is because debt is created when a reward is taken and not earned. Human nature can be manipulated. Simply because evil men have taken advantage of God's laws is no reason for us to reduce Christianity to a cult. It's only more evidence that God's world speaks to the problem within man. Evidence will only emerge from the reflection as we try to reflect on the truth.

How do we know truth from manipulation? One takes and the other gives. Simple.

Originally posted by KSigMason
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

I didn't attack you so don't try to be some martyr. You're throwing out red herrings to detract from the OP. Can you not debate the actual topic?

Do disagree that fundamentalists and extremists are cult-like? Our is it because the OP mentioned Christianity and now you are all defensive?

reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

So no criticism at all against radical Christianity? I see this thread struck a nerve. We're only criticizing the actions of the extremist not the doctrines of Christianity. I'm Christian and fundamentalists annoy the Hell out of me.

What is true in a greater matter is also true in a lesser matter. African Americans are not judged by the color of their skin. We only judge a person by the content of their character. All other attributes are meaningless. Truth only speaks to a person's heart.

Calling Fundamentalist Christians a Cult is the same as the lesser matter of race. Fundamentalist is a stereotype that cannot match all, or even most Christians. Judge a person by the content of their character only and judge the subject of truth the same. What is true for the lesser matter of a person's character will also be true for the greater matter of where that character originates. Know them by their fruit. That's all. Anything else is prejudice. Truth can be used and misused by any of us.

I do enjoy your hypocritical (double standard) stance though Enoch. You've shown that any criticism of Christianity even just towards it's members actions is wrong but criticism against Freemasonry is good. Like I've said many times, too many have taken the Christ out of Christianity.

Zealotry unchecked leads to fundamentalism, to extremism/radicalism, which at the heart of is hatred and fear not love and compassion. History is bloodied by the tyranny of radical and fundamental despots.

reply to post by EnochWasRight

Again, Christ said the path is narrow and between.

And narrow the path is. I plainly discovered this by the study of the Occult Teachings. There is Goodness and Evil in this world, not a being, nor a personage, but a Force. The Narrow Path is walking between these Forces, taking from each, while not falling into either. One cannot be a Good person, unless he/she knows the ways of an Evil person. One cannot even know what Good is, unless one know that which defines it.

Originally posted by autowrench
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

Again, Christ said the path is narrow and between.

And narrow the path is. I plainly discovered this by the study of the Occult Teachings. There is Goodness and Evil in this world, not a being, nor a personage, but a Force. The Narrow Path is walking between these Forces, taking from each, while not falling into either. One cannot be a Good person, unless he/she knows the ways of an Evil person. One cannot even know what Good is, unless one know that which defines it.

that is a very good way to look at duality.
I like that.

Originally posted by autowrench
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

Again, Christ said the path is narrow and between.

And narrow the path is. I plainly discovered this by the study of the Occult Teachings. There is Goodness and Evil in this world, not a being, nor a personage, but a Force. The Narrow Path is walking between these Forces, taking from each, while not falling into either. One cannot be a Good person, unless he/she knows the ways of an Evil person. One cannot even know what Good is, unless one know that which defines it.

I choose not to deny the obvious next conclusion. God is personal and is capable of a relationship with us. The Bible drips with an intelligence and degree of truth that is not matched by us mere mortals. If my reasoning and way of thinking matched God, I would be worried for our future. The fact that God demonstrates a higher degree than what I am willing to rise to, this again is evidence that the Bible is everything it makes itself out to be.

reply to post by network dude


There is certainly a difference between living the Christian life and being a "social Christian"

The church certainly breeds a certain way of thinking. I work as a Tech in a pretty big church, and it's really frustrating because people are completely closed off to the world. I call them "stuck in the bubble"

Growing up in an atheistic home and going through most of my teen and college years as an agnostic, the Gospel message really did radically change my perspective on things. However, it's strange to think that I see huge problems in the institution of Church after only being a believer for about 6 years.

Originally posted by KSigMason
I do enjoy your hypocritical (double standard) stance though Enoch. You've shown that any criticism of Christianity even just towards it's members actions is wrong but criticism against Freemasonry is good. Like I've said many times, too many have taken the Christ out of Christianity.

Zealotry unchecked leads to fundamentalism, to extremism/radicalism, which at the heart of is hatred and fear not love and compassion. History is bloodied by the tyranny of radical and fundamental despots.

Freemasonry is based on Theurgy and ritual magic. The reasoning behind why this is wrong reveals itself. God did not intend for us to misuse his law. Why? We take from others in greed as the motivation. Again, we merely reduce truth to its root of pride and selfishness. This directs my attention back to the Bible, which revels the reasoning behind Jesus condemnation against the Experts in the Law.

Truth is the root.

Originally posted by EnochWasRight
Freemasonry is a cult practicing Theurgy and magic. How much more counterfeit to the Christian message can we get?

Typical deceitful tactics. Crowley was a Mason for only a few months and left because one of the reasons was it did not practice magic in anyway. It was obviously not a fit for him yet you disengeniously cite him as a spokesperson when he was most assuredly not.

Originally posted by FaceLikeTheSun
reply to post by network dude

 

There is certainly a difference between living the Christian life and being a "social Christian"

The church certainly breeds a certain way of thinking. I work as a Tech in a pretty big church, and it's really frustrating because people are completely closed off to the world. I call them "stuck in the bubble"

Growing up in an atheistic home and going through most of my teen and college years as an agnostic, the Gospel message really did radically change my perspective on things. However, it's strange to think that I see huge problems in the institution of Church after only being a believer for about 6 years.

I think the way you came to your faith is most important. On your own. You have a deep spiritual bond with God that is not something out of neccesity, but out of love and respect. I have my problems with organized religion as it tends to focus on money, building bigger and better churches, and sort of forgets about why it exists in the first place. For the soul.

I am going to weigh in here a little bit.

I am a "born again" semi fundamentalist/semi evangelical Christian. (I'll get to the semi part in a minute) Christianity is not by definition a cult. It stresses, free will and actually a lack of "works and rules". However; I am sure to the non beleiver certain sects can seem that way. I also have a college degree, a fairly high IQ, and critical thinking skills. I realize some of the bible is to be taken literally, and some is allegorical. I realize that some books of the Bible are addressed to specific people groups (particularly Paul's letters) and aren't nessecarily a blanket rule for everyone. I know that when looked at in the original Hebrew, Greek, or Aramaic, specific passages can have slightly different (usually more specific) meaning. I realize that parts of the Old Testament were negated by the New Testament. Many new Christians (and many Old ones too) don't always realize this. In addition, because of the somewhat multiple interpritations you have divisions, which has led to denominations. Some are more and some are less fundamentalist then others. At its base, Christian's beleive that to receive salvation from your short comings (SIN) and to gain eternal life you must accept Christ (God in the flesh)s gift of forgiveness, obtained by His sacrafice on the cross and subsequent resurretion. Some churches call this "saved" or "born again", other's call this "confirmed" (there is much disagreement on what actually constitues this amongs the different sects). If you don't have this as a basis, then your not a Christian denomination, all other "views" not withstanding.

I have attended many churches. Currently I am a Southern Baptist (although most Southern Baptist, especially, in metroplitian areas, are acting much more "non denominational"). I have chosen that because I happen to agree with most (not all) of their views on things, Most here at ATS would consider me a "Fundie", yet most in my church think I am "too liberal". (That's what I mean by the semi above, I am quite tempored you might say).

Unlike myself I find that on average, MANY Christian's are undereducated in both secular education AND on their own religion. Because of this, they often unintentionally, even if their intent is good, become overzealous, and turn many people off. They hang on to what their pastor says (which is an interpretation of a particular Biblical issue, subject, or passage, usually with a does of the specific denominations interpritations) and go for it. This often looks cult like if they go really overboard, and also judgemental. Depending on the pastor/denomination it may or may not be the "best" view point of a particular issue, especially when trying to relate it to "non believers".

For example. Baptists (along with most of the other of the more fundamentalist denominations) prohibit drinking. Baptists do this because John the Baptist did not drink, and they originally stylized their interpretations of being Christian in part off of him. Fine, that's what Baptists beleive. That being said 1) many Baptists I know do moderately drink, and 2) there is nothing in the bible that strictly forbids it (other then specific groups or persons like John the Baptist and Levites). However; since most new (and some older Christians) don't know this, they hear "don't drink" from some sermon or other Christian, and then go blanket apply it out of context to their family members at the next 4th of July picnic. I applaud their desire to share Christ, but not nessecarily their way in doing it. It's really no different then new conspiracy theorist who have "seen the light" trying to get everyone to buy into their viewpoint, especialy if they don't have all the information to relay said view point. OR new Ron Paul supporters .....

I got a little longer then I planned, and actually have more to say, but I'll leave it at this for now.

Originally posted by network dude

Originally posted by FaceLikeTheSun
reply to post by network dude

 

There is certainly a difference between living the Christian life and being a "social Christian"

The church certainly breeds a certain way of thinking. I work as a Tech in a pretty big church, and it's really frustrating because people are completely closed off to the world. I call them "stuck in the bubble"

Growing up in an atheistic home and going through most of my teen and college years as an agnostic, the Gospel message really did radically change my perspective on things. However, it's strange to think that I see huge problems in the institution of Church after only being a believer for about 6 years.

I think the way you came to your faith is most important. On your own. You have a deep spiritual bond with God that is not something out of neccesity, but out of love and respect. I have my problems with organized religion as it tends to focus on money, building bigger and better churches, and sort of forgets about why it exists in the first place. For the soul.

spot on

reply to post by network dude


I actually avoid these people as much as possible. I've had a few as students. It's very hard to teach them anything, to be honest.

I remember one student actually grabbed me and told me I was damned to hell. She scratched my arms up pretty bad. I just restrained her until she agreed to leave.

Sigh.

"The grand object of the Order must be more particularly inculcated into him, namely, that of teaching the whole universe to set aside all government, laws, and altars; and he must perpetually attend to the grand interests of human nature. His zeal is to be stimulated at the sight of every man who is subjected to any authority. It is to reinstate the inhabitants of the earth in their original Equality and Liberty that he is constituted General of all the Illuminees that are or will be spread over the world during his reign, all labouring at the accomplishment of the grand revolution of the Man-King."

Mark 7:7

In vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.

Matthew 17:7-23

So, every healthy tree bears good fruit, but the diseased tree bears bad fruit. A healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a diseased tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus you will recognize them by their fruits. “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my father who is in heaven. ..

Ephesians 5:11

Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them.

This one is one of my favorites:

Zechariah 11:17

“Woe to my worthless shepherd, who deserts the flock! May the sword strike his arm and his right eye! Let his arm be wholly withered, his right eye utterly blinded!”

Originally posted by SrWingCommander
For example. Baptists (along with most of the other of the more fundamentalist denominations) prohibit drinking. Baptists do this because John the Baptist did not drink, and they originally stylized their interpretations of being Christian in part off of him. Fine, that's what Baptists beleive. That being said 1) many Baptists I know do moderately drink, and 2) there is nothing in the bible that strictly forbids it (other then specific groups or persons like John the Baptist and Levites). However; since most new (and some older Christians) don't know this, they hear "don't drink" from some sermon or other Christian, and then go blanket apply it out of context to their family members at the next 4th of July picnic. I applaud their desire to share Christ, but not nessecarily their way in doing it. It's really no different then new conspiracy theorist who have "seen the light" trying to get everyone to buy into their viewpoint, especialy if they don't have all the information to relay said view point. OR new Ron Paul supporters

.....

I got a little longer then I planned, and actually have more to say, but I'll leave it at this for now.

we joke that if you are going to take a Baptist fishing, make sure you bring two of them. If you only bring one, he will drink all your beer. (just a joke)

We also joke about Catholic Priests. When they go to heaven, St Peter is going to put his arm around them and laugh, we said Celebrate, not Celibate.

Just a bit of church humor. Thanks for weighing in sir.