Fundamentalist Christianity: a mind control CULT?

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

Originally posted by PurpleChiten

Originally posted by Lionhearte
reply to post by AugustusMasonicus

 

Christians don't go door to door. Jehovah's Witnesses do.

Jehovah Witnesses are as much Christian as you are, if not more so

Uh, no they are not. They believe the Messiah is Michael not Jesus. Not to mention they removed several entire chapters concerning Christ's return in the flesh for the millenial reign and his physical resurrection. Mormons are not either, they believe Jesus came from outter space.

Why don't you try learning what the REALLY believe if you wish to discredit them instead of going on what people have made up to try to trash them?

The bible is not my favorite book. Like every other form of deception, it is filled with SOME truths, but mostly lies; if it wasn't, people would never follow it. I must say that the few truths make sense to me on a certain level but those things are drowned out by the blatant pro master-slave rhetoric. It's like this: your born and what you know in that 4 year buffer zone is what life is really about (play, have fun, etc) but then your parents (masters) come in and say "alright, Johnny, you can have these toys and TV shows, and you can do whatever you want with them as long as you know that we're boss). Then you enter Church and Sunday school. Pretty much at this exact point in your development you start to form the philosopher mentality (Why?). You are then taught in Sunday school to never question authority or you will go to hell. And if authority is wrong, it is better to just suck it up because revolting against oppression will also send you to tell. Basically, the general message is: you will do everything we say, or you will go to hell. you will not question what we say, or you will go to hell. if you do everything we say, without question, you will live a life of "happiness" and "luxury". The fact that most religions are based off of punishment and reward really just doesn't seem right to me - why are you bribing me? What do you have to gain? What is so bad about the next religion?

I agree that it is a mind control cult that takes advantage of people looking for something more out of life. This is just another arm of the Roman Empire (no, it never fell).

reply to post by network dude


I don't know if it qualifies as a cult, but it's not conventional Christianity. What bothers me is the cherry picking and revisionism that allows it to mesh with right wing ideology. Jesus was not pro war, pro death penalty anti poor anti gay. in tha way its anti Christian idealogy to say the least . Jesus spoke of the lambs and the goats in the last days, the lambs were the ones who were true Christians and the goats professed to be Christian and then do not follow his will. It says in the new testament that if you love God and yet hate your neighbor, the light of God is not in you.

reply to post by Hecate666


OP, I do understand. I am a christain of many years. This affect typically occurs with those newly born again before they acquire knowledge and think they are just full annointing and the power of the Holy Ghost. Personally I have a daughter whom I love very much, she is a pastor. Her immaturity as a christain as she takes the bible so literally that she has practically disowned her family. Unfortunately she belongs to an over zealous church which isn't in my humble opinion providing the proper guidance to their memebers. All of this being said, the walk with God is exactly that, a walk. The more we study and understand the word, the better we become in acting like true christains. Unfortunately the Bible can be twisted and turned to fit anyones desire. I have choosen to treat my daughter as Jesus would as I try to treat everyone. I use compassion, intellect and patientence. She will find the truth, be it a day a week or years, however I am happy she is fundamentally living a good and healthy life although I could do without her " higher than thou" attitude.

Originally posted by openminded2011
reply to post by network dude

 

I don't know if it qualifies as a cult, but it's not conventional Christianity. What bothers me is the cherry picking and revisionism that allows it to mesh with right wing ideology. Jesus was not pro war, pro death penalty anti poor anti gay. in tha way its anti Christian idealogy to say the least . Jesus spoke of the lambs and the goats in the last days, the lambs were the ones who were true Christians and the goats professed to be Christian and then do not follow his will. It says in the new testament that if you love God and yet hate your neighbor, the light of God is not in you.

edit on 25-5-2012 by openminded2011 because: (no reason given)

Who willed Jerusalem to be destroyed within a generation after Jesus died, killing a million plus Judeans? His Father.

How does God punish His people? War, famine and pestilence by bringing their enemies against them.

Why are the death penalties in His laws?

Why did Jesus stop the people from stoning the woman as God's law required? Because they were UNFIT to judge her due to hypocrisy.They were unable to offer justice and/or mercy because of their hypocrisy.

Did Jacob not create herds and herds of blemished sheep and goats representing the flocks of Israel? What did those blemishes represent? Sin. Do we not see the same today?

Who is your neighbour? The neighbour in the parable was a representation of Jesus saving the man. The priest walked by, the rabbi walked by but he did not. Love your neighbour, love the one who SAVES..

So please tell me as I watch the atheist descendants of Israel not understanding in the least about why our enemies are now getting on top of the western nations econimically, politically and socially? It's because your stated version of "conventional Christianity" is a lie and leads to our current situation. We have millions of Christians who don't open a page of scripture, Christians like the OP who cannot understand that a person is supposed to start changing their behaviour, Christians believing that tolerance equals love.....this is not the gospel of Christ Jesus. God is the same yesterday as today, and demands obedience and the faithfulness of Jesus. This is why so very few will find the narrow gate. I love my non-Christian friends, but I will never condone nor accept their lives of sin. But will I pass judgement on them? No, for that is not a Christian's role on Earth. But does the Holy Spirit convict a Godless person's behaviour? Absolutely.

reply to post by network dude


I read your opening statement and say i agree clearly to me the proof is in the pudding, i myself consider yours truly to be what one would call a Christian but i ask why so many Christans of the fundeametalist type hold King James up almost to be Christ i mean he was just a king who ordained the status quo in that translation of that Bible version nothing more.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

Meh, there's tens of thousands of Messianic jews who would gladly take you up on that offer. But i will leave you with this.

Isaiah 53

Zechariah 12

Disclaimer: I do know this is way off-topic, but I did try and respond to this poster in his own thread, and he ignored me, so I do want to answer him here. I promise I'll be quick

Isaiah 53 and Zechariah 12:

The word is hikifuni - it does not mean pierced, nowhere in any of the scriptures does this word mean pierced. The correct translation would be bound. Bound, not pierced.

According to prophesy:

The Immanuel is prophesied to return the jews to israel and rebuild the temple. During and after Yehoshua, none of this occured. In fact, after Yehoshua, the temple was destroyed and the jews were scattered across the world.

The Immanuel is a king. By Judaic tradition, a king must be anointed king by a prophet. Yehoshua was not.

The Immanuel is declared to be a sinner, who will offer the fat and blood of a slain bull in order to atone. Ezekiel was quite clear on this.

Ez 45:17-46:4

It shall be the prince's duty to furnish the burnt offerings, cereal offerings, and drink offerings, at the feasts...he shall provide the sin offerings...to make atonement for the house of Israel...the priest shall take some of the blood of the sin offering...the prince shall provide for himself and all the people of the land a young bull; for a sin offering...the priests shall offer his [the prince's] peace offering...The burnt offerings that the prince offers to the Lord..."

There are no Jewish propheices concerning a suffering and dying Messiah. In fact, to suffer and die was seen by jews as a sign of god's dislike and hatred.

Moses himself stated it quite clearly in Deuteronomy 13:1-5

If a prophet arises among you, or a dreamer of dreams, and gives you a sign or wonder, and the sign or wonder which he tells you comes to pass, and if he says "Let us go after other gods which you have not known, and let us serve them," you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or to that dreamer of dreams; for the Lord your God is testing you, to know whether you love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul. You shall walk after the Lord your God and fear him, and keep his commandments and obey his voice...that prophet or that dreamer of dreams shall put to death, because he has taught rebellion against the Lord your God

As Yehoshua said, they had not known him, or his Father before.

Now, the genealogy?

Matthew and Luke cannot seem to agree on this lineage, to start with. Secondly, he must be a member of the tribe of Judah, a direct descendent of David. There's a problem.

If we believe in the virgin birth, then Mary's genealogy is irrelevent, since one inherits being Jewish from the mother, and the tribe from the father. And, even if it was relevent, Mary was descended through Nathan, not Solomon. This disqualifies it as fulfilling prophecy.

If we don't believe in the virgin birth, and we assume Joseph is the real father, then because Joseph was descended from Jeconiah, his entire line was cursed never to be kings again, and the Immanuel must be a king.

So, looking further, through the requirements laid out in Chronicles, Isaiah, Micah, Zephaniah and Ezekiel, Yehoshua did not fulfill any of the prophecy.

He did not gather all jews to israel, rebuild the temple, bring world peace and make sure everyone in the whole world woships Yahweh.

The idea that he will accomplish this and fulfill prophecy in His second coming has no scriptural basis, since the jews do not have the concept of a second coming.

What He did do was come, as another god, to bring His own light. He is not Yahweh. He is "Lucifer".

This is one of those topics I see brought up every so often, and it never ceases to amaze me. Especially since I have firsthand experience living in conditions some may call "cultish," they couldn't be more wrong.

Most of my life I have been an atheist, and a staunch one. I was brought up in the Catholic church and split from it at a very young age. Later in life, I found myself homeless and two married pastors took me into their group home. I lived with 12 other woman, and although most of our daily activities revolved around Christian activities we were never forced or coerced to participate in any way. Nobody treated me any differently for not believing what they did, even though I often voiced my opinions. I did learn some things and start reading the Bible strictly from an academic perspective. I could not deny that I saw subtle changes in myself and the woman I lived with, and I really did never know a more loving group of people. My pastors could never be called "charismatic leaders," in ANY sense. They were in many ways quite the opposite.

I find it very funny that people looking from the outside can easily call Christianity a cult even though they have little to no knowledge of how most churches are. You have every right to have an opinion against the church, but defamation of that nature really isn't necessary.

Can't just be happy for your family members? Maybe they were sad and not getting fullfillment from that beer any longer. Maybe they found something to be proud of in their lives? Sounds to me that your just a selfish person who wants your family "your way" not the way that makes them most happy.

If your family members went to college and when they came back all they wanted to talk about was the plight of Africa and Halliburton (just examples) would that be okay because you agree with those? Just sounds like another self righteous rant to me...

reply to post by albertabound


What lies exactly.

Your taking Christianity at face value and not the scripture, does that mean every person is going to try to live by the Bible best they can, no it doesn't. Don't yoke everyone in the same boat.

The scripture is in reality more about warning and showing people the cause and effect, the wages of Sin and the ONLY way to eternal life.

Accusers from outside see it as control but it has nothing to do with that. Its about coming to know who the Father is the Spirit of The Living God, and the testimony of people that know, exactly who Jesus is. And that doesn't always start with the scripture, especially if your a firm believer through experience.

Originally posted by MarlboroRedCowgirl
I find it very funny that people looking from the outside can easily call Christianity Freemasonry a cult even though they have little to no knowledge of how most churches lodges are. You have every right to have an opinion against the church Masons, but defamation of that nature really isn't necessary.

And with the above word substitutions, I think you'll find Network Dude's point.

Originally posted by KnawLick
Can't just be happy for your family members? Maybe they were sad and not getting fullfillment from that beer any longer. Maybe they found something to be proud of in their lives? Sounds to me that your just a selfish person who wants your family "your way" not the way that makes them most happy.

If your family members went to college and when they came back all they wanted to talk about was the plight of Africa and Halliburton (just examples) would that be okay because you agree with those? Just sounds like another self righteous rant to me...

If your talking about the OP i must say i see it or interpreted differently, i think he's just making a statemant that at times on this planet there have been what people would call fundamentalis Christians to which i say i think history has shown this to be true, not of just Christianity but of all Religions to a extent, but i'll let the OP speak for himself.

Network Dude, After looking at my previous post, in all honesty, it touches on your question at one level, but doesn't directly answer your question. So I'm going to try and do a better job of that in this post.

Have you ever had an epiphany in your life that really changed your whole perspective and paradigm about something? If you have, then you most likely also remember an elation that came with that epiphany.

Now imagine that you have a revelation or epiphany that changes the way you perceive everything. An experience that changes the very core of your personal convictions so completely, that you feel like a different person. A person understanding certain principles for the first time in your life. Principles you not only believe, but are convinced of. This is what conversion is like for many people in the beginning. It's exciting. It's like runners high, an endorphin rush.

The reason it wears off with time, is partly because it isn't needed long term. The new belief system is now set. The other reason is because it needs to be fed and supported consistently. Just not to the same degree of elation. This is what church and "fellowship" is for. It keeps the new belief system fed, supported, and exciting.

The very same experience is had by many people who convert to a new belief system of any kind. I know someone personally who had this same experience when they became an atheist, and wanted to tell the world, and convert others to atheism. I have also spoken before about Moonies and other cults,who have these same experiences.

I went through the same things when I became a Christian decades ago. And I went through it again to a lesser degree when I became a heathen again.

I hope that does a better job of directly answering the question from someone who has been there, and was for a long, long, time.

reply to post by JoshNorton


I have no idea why the changes in my words were necessarily and really don't see what freemasonry has to do with this topic. I was responding to the OP and not any issue of freemasonry that was brought up.

Lord, please protect me from your "followers"

reply to post by King Seesar


Fundamentalist is a very subjective term. The OP described their family member as talking about Christ a lot and maybe questioning the use of alcohol. Perhaps even changing some previously help views on social issues. I wouldn't classify anything the OP described as "fundamentalist" rather normal views of 80 million "born-again" Christians.

I don't dispute fundamental sects exist but the OP seems to classify anybody that doesn't just worship God Sunday from 10:30-11:30 a fundamentalist. So your right if the OP was says his family wanted to join an Amish community I could see where the possible concern would arise from but just sounds like they found God... And I ask again, why not just be happy for them?

reply to post by W3RLIED2

I hope not laughing isn't a sin or I'm f***ed. As my lady friend put it the other night, I am the most politically incorrect person she knows.

reply to post by network dude


Christianity is a matter of two perspectives: those who created it, and those who follow it.

Those who created it, did so on one premise: erring on the side of caution. Keep mankind from destroying itself...because in those days, a papercut was a death sentence.

Those who follow it, do so because they want safety and surety. They want control, and yet are afraid of it...so they give control to a being whose very nature is so mysterious that controlling it is a matter of how you look at it.

It may be a cult, but it started out with good intentions. But there's always the problem of creating an illusion so complete that the people who inherit the design have forgotten its original purpose...

from wiki answers

Cults can occur inside of and outside a 'mainstream' religion (here I take it that the question is referring to the classical 'cults' whereby strong leaders have control over members of their group, rather than alternative definitions such as 'personality cults', or 'cults of devotion').

Three ideas seem essential to the concept of a cult.

1. Thinking in terms of us versus them with total alienation from "them."
2. The intense, though often subtle, indoctrination techniques used to recruit and hold members.
3. The charismatic cult leader. Cultism usually involves some sort of belief that outside the cult all is evil and threatening; inside the cult is the special path to salvation through the cult leader and his teachings.

The indoctrination techniques include:

Subjection to stress and fatigue;
Social disruption, isolation and pressure;
Self criticism and humiliation;
Fear, anxiety, and paranoia;
Control of information;
Escalating commitment;
Use of auto-hypnosis to induce "peak" experiences

Cults are absent of the betterment of the individual person but rather than leader only. Cults try to subvert the human will with total and complete obedience to the leader of a group or sect

Arguably, the difference between a cult and a religion is numbers.
Several levels of indoctrination exists within a religion though...which is why subsects and micro-sects are initiated within the mainstream religion to create pockets of full indoctrination within the entity.

Indoctrination happens almost since birth.


The reapers are the real threat!
I blame Harbinger.

I'm suspicious of ANYONE who tells me that I will "burn in hell" for "eternity" if I don't do exactly what they tell me. This includes Christians, Muslims, Manson followers, whoever. Whether or not it's a "cult" is semantics. It's all just a form of control.

Personally, I find basing my moral system and way of life off of a disjointed series of contradictory books that were written thousands of years ago and selectively compiled into the hodge podge that is the Bible a little stupid, but that's just me. I don't need fear of eternal damnation to be a good person.