Muslim Woman Asked to Remove Headscarf in NJ Mall

reply to post by ldyserenity


then why dont you make a petition to end what bothers you guys?

Seems like this cultural differences bothers you too much in the US.


Same did France, didn't they? I don't find the hijab western and people should know teh cultural aspects of teh country being visited. Sometimes people wear it for security as I said in my post above.

If it is such a problem and may be a threat for security, then ban it.
This problem today, another one tomorrow...

Originally posted by azulejo
reply to post by ldyserenity

 

I make applications for people to apply for Visas and they ask for two passport photos where there is any coverage of the face or head or ears WITH THE EXCEPTION of coverage of head because of religion beliefs.


Is the law like this? Might be good to actual look for the law yo are talking about.

You may not have wanted any but you still enjoy this lifestyle, don't you?

No I don't quite enjoy this lifestyle at all, I'd much rather be able to get a job paying above minimum wage, or a job at all, I'd much rather be able to understand wth my tech support is trying to say to me when I call my Verizon for help, instead of them sounding that they're talking through their nose and a mouthfull of marbles, I'd much rather we made something in this country except for Fiat money and real estate that nobody can afford to buy, I'd much rather have less people depending on Welfare because they can actually find JOBS that they can live off of (NOT WAL MART) I'd much rather have a lavish lifestyle because I can afford to buy more expensive home brand stuff because I'd actually make a good wage and lots of free time paid vacations, and have a house because I'd be able to afford that too, and still have negotiating power (UNIONS) if only it were like the fifties again, that's what I'd much rather be at today. Nobody in their freaking right mind wants globalization it makes all countries equal eventually and that is NOT a good thing not at all.

reply to post by smyleegrl
I don't have a problem with people dressing differently according to their faith.

I do have a problem with people determining what others should wear though.

I'd have a problem with muslims dictating how others should dress based on their religion.

The inverse is also true. What kind of freedom do we have, (we espouse) if we don't allow others to dress the way they want to.

reply to post by ldyserenity


I live in Ga here Muslim women cover their head, no problem with that, [but they do not cover their faces.

Islam law requires women to cover their heads allowing view of the faces, but the laws of the countries are the ones that pushed the covering of the face

It is the general consensus among the Muslims that a Muslim woman is required to cover her head leaving only her face showing as part of an overall dress code and behavior which Islam prescribes. It is therefore part of the social system of Islam, and a manifestation of important general Islamic principles. Firstly, an educated Muslim woman does this because she is following guidance from God and His prophet Muhammad recorded in the Qur'an,and in the Sunnah (the knowledge about the practice and example of the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him)). For example, one translation of the meaning of the specific ayat (verse)of Qur'an that mentions the head covering is as follows:

Surah 24 Al-Nur (The Light); ayat 31 (part of)

And say to the believing women......that they should draw their head-coverings over the neck opening (of their dresses) , and not display their ornaments except to their husbands, their fathers.....(etc)

This guidance she regards, as by definition a Muslim should do, as being revealed by the 'All-Knowing' the 'Most Wise', The 'Most Merciful', 'All-Mighty' God who created all human beings and whose Power controls everything. She is doing it because she believes that God with His nature knows best what is in the true best interests of human beings, far more than a human can know, with his or her fallibility, and weaknesses

www.islamic.org.uk...

Showing the face is not violation to their religious rules under Islam

Islamic law (Sharia) requires women to cover themselves. The practical application in modern Muslim countries varies with a combination of individual taste and social expectation. The Taliban actually require full burqas (covering everything including a mesh for the eyes), while the secular governments of Turkey and Tunisia have actually banned headscarves in public buildings (up until recently).

The head covering is interpreted as a symbol of male domination by most critics and by many Muslim women who fight for the right to dress as they please. In December of 2007, a father in Canada beat his 16-year-old daughter to death for refusing to wear the hijab (headscarf).

www.thereligionofpeace.com...

What this women is imposing is her believes under Taliban Sharia law, when a women is forbidden to show her face

The last time I check we Americas are fighting Taliban rule and take over in the middle east so for this women to try to enforce one of the oppresion against womenTaliban rule in the US is a joke.

And that is the truth, she have her own agenda, When people are misinformed about how Islam works and Taliban rules they get bunch up in their panties trying to fight for something just to have that, a fight

Get informed people you have been played by the sympathy for the women in the article.

Originally posted by GunzCoty
People don't get it.
It's a mall they have the right to tell her to remove it or leave.
She is upset because she felt he was going to remove it for her, which he has no right to do.

ETA: its not about NJ its about a privately owned mall

edit on 5/24/2012 by GunzCoty because: ETA

Malls, and other private areas of public conglomeration are kind of a gray area. In some cases they are considered public space. I don't like it, but courts can go either way on whether or not a mall is public or private. The same goes for large sporting events, fairs, festivals, etc. They might be private property, but then again they might be public on any given day.

Originally posted by GunzCoty
People don't get it.
It's a mall they have the right to tell her to remove it or leave.
She is upset because she felt he was going to remove it for her, which he has no right to do.

ETA: its not about NJ its about a privately owned mall

edit on 5/24/2012 by GunzCoty because: ETA

That's true and untrue at the same time. They do have the right to refuse service, but in the case of that particular state they have the added bonus of the law to back them. Which in PA they don't and I have seen where they can and do enter establishments with face coverings and hold up the place (Not talking the Muslim Garb here just general masks ski masks, etc) it makes it a dagerous place to live because store owners don't have the right to kick out someone with face coverings, well they do, but they would probably lose the court case because the race card or some other such (profiling, etc) thing the complaintant can pull in court. I am saying yes they do have that right, but may run into problems in some places trying to exercise that right.

reply to post by ldyserenity


and what is your solution about it?

Sorry man, but the world is like this because it is OUR FAULT.

I come from a third world country and there is nothing like the US. why you guys complain so much? There isn't 180 dead bodies in your capital morgue every weekend. There isn't a militia in your main cities who the government feeds and give guns to? give them power?
You dont have a massive problem with corrupt government involve with narcotraffic (at least not publicly) You dont have GDP 32%, you at leats have health care that works and free education until you are 17-18. You at least have potable water than can be drank. You are at leats not paranoid that you are going to be killed at 12noon.

There are countries with much much worse problems, one of them being mine.

I am sorry you cannot understand your Verizon technical advisor, that also happens in UK and they are workers in India and Bangladesh who get paid less than £1 an hour to do this job. New Delhi is a massive place for this kind of business.
Is it his/her fault though? Your fault isnt either but that is teh situation of the world.

You seem to feel really bad about it and you are completely right but seems like many people are also in your position and maybe a bit of tolerance and compassion from your part may be quite helpful.

You guys are definetely in one of the best position you can have. Of course we have to the neck on bills and debts but thats the price you pay for this "lifestyle"

I for one are here to make a lot of money (on my own expense, caution: I ahve my own business so didn't take teh job of any Englishman/woman) and go, where? Where people actually enjoy life, a country that doesnt have all teh commodities but at leats doesnt have problems with guns and drugs: Cyprus is a good option.

reply to post by smyleegrl


hahaha its the muslim version of cousin IT.

that head covering looks so stupid. Although shes lucky to live in america where no one but her husband will beat her for taking it off in public.

reply to post by azulejo


and bills are easy to pay....

reply to post by Wertdagf


not all of them are forced to wear it.

I ahve met many that do it because they fell better by wear it.

I ahve been in Morocco and they dont cover their faces. You can walk with shorts and tank tops there.

I did covered mine and I found it quite amusing, the respect I received from Muslims the 15 mins I was wearing it was quite interesting. The more you cover the more respect the give you... even getting away from your path.

Its a cultural thing bro.. you go to Turkey and it is a whole different story

reply to post by azulejo


Soon we will be the same as your old country globally, that will be great then won't it? There will be no USA to run to, because we will do the same. Yes in a way it is our fault for letting the coporations do this and standing idly by but the government and the corporations are really responsible and they're not only raping our economy they're raping your resources. We should give them a hand up yes and help them bring their selves out of third world status, but not at the risk of bringing us down to a lesser world country which is happening. Yes we are to blame for not demanding things staying here in the states, with not demanding tariffs on these companies trying to undercut the American worker etc. But it's done...if I ever am reincarnated want to live in the 1950's USA before globalization and NWO agendas screwed us out of a living.

isn't it also illegal to wear a mask in publc????

i've seen many arrested,,,,,,,,,,, even a man i n clown gear arrested in a bank drive thru


yet,,, on halloween it's a-ok.

the mask thing aways bothered me,,,, if i want to wear a mask,,, it's my perogative,,,,,,, and until i do something nefarious,,,, i'm good to go


anyone know the law,,, or what they actually charge you with????

Originally posted by shortywarn
isn't it also illegal to wear a mask in publc????

i've seen many arrested,,,,,,,,,,, even a man i n clown gear arrested in a bank drive thru


yet,,, on halloween it's a-ok.

the mask thing aways bothered me,,,, if i want to wear a mask,,, it's my perogative,,,,,,, and until i do something nefarious,,,, i'm good to go


anyone know the law,,, or what they actually charge you with????

If Im not allowed to wear a mask in public and hide my face, why should she be allowed?

Screw that religion nonsense too; as someone pointed out prior, freedom of religion means the state will not force a religion on you, NOT that you get to do whatever you want because "its my religion".

reply to post by shortywarn


I don't know what they actually charge you with, and I see no problem wearing any of that outside on the road but where a retail business is concerned it is a concern. Someone also mentioned identifying them as a victim of kidnapping, etc. But there are a myriad of reasons why they shouldn't be hiding their faces in a retail store. Remember just about anyone can caryy a gun in the USA even illegally because they are easy to find. This I think is the reason the law was made in some places.

reply to post by ldyserenity


No, it wouldnt be nice but you guys consume so much # that no wonder you get to this point. You know how much waste there is there? 98% of stufff gets dumped after 9 months. Thats is insane and this are actual facts.

Its not your fault why teh corportaions run your country... indirectly or not, they control all countries.

AND THATS WHAT PEOPLE DONT GET

all this media about cultures, Muslims, Christians, all for the sake of DIVISION.

divide and conquer.

The more divided, the more ignorant we are.

the more ignorant, teh easier it is to control and manipulate!

Dont believe all fo this crap news about Scarfs, immigrants, terrorism.. FEAR FEAR FEAR

isnt there more important things to solve and talk about than some Muslims woman having a piece of fabric around her head.

Goodness sake!!!!!

I see people have been eating the stupid tablets again imprinted with the letters PC.

1. The veil is used to oppress women. Just because a veil wearing woman says "its my choice" does NOT mean it is her choice. Jesus H, what happened to the lessons learned of women living in oppressive western marriages and yet claiming their husband is "a good man". We know that is utter BS.

2. Covering your face is a security issue. If anyone here can tell me that they would be able to identify the woman on the OP then they are simply lying.

3. Why should the covering of the face be banned for teenagers (hoodies) but woman in black garments are OK. Sorry NO.

4. In the UK a terrorist suspect attempted to escape the country by wearing a bhurka........I wonder why. Are you defenders of this nonsense that naive?

5. We in the west do not cover our face. Seeing the face is part of communication and identity. we use it to identify emotion and thus detect threat or not. That is western cultural behaviour. Everyone goes on about respect what about the respect of our centuries established traditions of cultural interaction. We do not hide in public only thieves with balaclavas do!

6. I challenge all the women here defending this to go to a muslim country and wear your normal western clothing that you would wear on a hot summers day..............ensure you write a will first.

I can't wait till they start asking women to remove their tops! Seriously though showing ones face is to one religion or culture to what showing ones breasts or more is to another. None of it has a place in a free country but neither does anyone have a right to force anyone else to take off or wear anything at all really. We are born naked and it is our natural state.

Your forcing women to not expose their breasts is no different than them forcing women not to expose their face, head etc... all same thing.

To some people haivng women expose their face/head is nudity and perverse just like what you consider nude and perverse.

reply to post by azulejo


I agree it is OUR fault.

But it is illogical to argue that we shouldn't be concerned, because it is not as bad as it could get. Liberty today is much more in jeopardy than it was in 1776 when they decided to rebel. It is much worse than it was in 1861 when the South seceded. It is much worse than it was prior to the "New Deal" that brought about our corporate bankster masters.

Just because it is worse somewhere else does not mean there is no cause for concern. It is not as good as it could be, and the reason it is not as good as it could be, is because too many people are in too many other people's business, and too many people think they should dictate how other people act!

The idea is to not let this country fall to 3rd World status, which means we need to act NOW, instead of waiting until all our liberties are gone, and armed goon squads financed by corporations are occupying our capitals.

reply to post by yorkshirelad
The whole thing about choice and then not and teh throwing even Jesus to it.. its a bit deluted. It doesnt even make sense,

It IS a choice. Have you met a Turkish woman? a Saudi? a Moroccan? and ask that question? I HAVE and they say it is a choice. the whole thing about opression, you TV and politicans and stupid people in your shows thought you that,

So women in your country are not oppressed? Look at yout tele!! THEY ARE, they are a sex symbol, they were no clothes, some women even dress liek prostitutes. They might not be porstitutes but they look like one.... and they ahve people in their TV to confirm that it is OK to dress like that... Kim Kardashian, Jersey Shore and Co, MTV all shows.. thats what your tele is teaching your society and its becomign your culture.

So it is, oppresion. Different ways, but same thing.




Different pespectives:

reply to post by exroyalnavy


Call it however you like but guess what. Christians do it everyday in this country. Bigot much? Not accusing, just asking. Like I said, it's a sensitive issue. Your opinions aside. There culture is embroidered in there religion point in fact.