Muslim Woman Asked to Remove Headscarf in NJ Mall

Why do Police and in-coming to jail arrestees have strip searches? To see whats what. Same thing. To identify who and what is inside. And it should be like that.

Also, I understood there is no religious basis or requirement for Muslim women to wear a Hajib or veil. And that comes from a Muslim herself.

So being asked to remove it or not wear it denies nothing. And countries around the world are now making it illegal to wear in public places. And that not even in the US.

The guard was WRONG. I believe in religious freedom even when it seems dumb.. as long as it works within our laws. That is one of the beauties left of the United States.

However, when they are getting drivers licenses and things of that nature, the veil needs to be lifted. No one can wear a ski mask in their drivers license.. its a form of proof of identity.

One of the ladies I meet with monthly for our cackling hen lunch in St Louis wears the whole gear. She said she told her husband she HAD to show her face for identity.. and there was some issue over this, but when he heard he would have to do the driving kids to sports and etc, he said do it. She had a blast with us because she did her hair, make up, and we snuck off to grab an ice cream after with her and her new DO. I swear it may be the only pic of her without the veil that she has other than childhood photos... and she is a knock out! Her husband is a good guy and isnt the stereotypical beat-your-wife-with-a-stick muslim man. We told him how beautiful his wife was and he was beaming when he looked at her new drivers license. For them, its religious and cultural.. and there really is no distinction between the 2 in many countries.

Islam is more than just a religion. I think people get caught up in the "religion" aspect but in reality Islam is a political ideology. The Sharia laws and other "laws" garning the behavior of a Muslim range from stupid to barbaric in the 21st Century. I really don't think that many other religions are far behind Islam whrn it comes the their own brand of bigotry.

Lets be real...

Islamic Law full book

Islamic Law for menstration

Rules of Istihaza
400. * In the case of little istihaza the a woman should perform separate Wudhu for every prayer and should, as a recommended precaution, wash or change the pad. And if some blood is found on the outer part of her private parts she should make it Pak with water.

401. * In the case of Mutawassita, it is an obligatory precaution for a woman to make one Ghusl everyday for her daily prayers, and she should act accordingly to the rules of little Istihaza as explained in the foregoing rule. If the state of Istihaza began before or just at the time of Fajr prayers, she should do Ghusl before offering Fajr prayers. If she does not do Ghusl intentionally or forgetfully, she should do Ghusl before Zuhr and Asr prayers. And if she misses even that, then she should do Ghusl before praying Maghrib and Isha. This she would do regardless of whether bleeding continues or stops.

402. * In the case of excessive bleeding the woman should change, as an obligatory precaution, the cotton or pad tied to her private parts or make it Pak with water. It is also necessary that she should do one Ghusl for Fajr prayers, one for Zuhr and Asr prayers and once again for Maghrib and Isha prayers. She should offer Asr prayers immediately after Zuhr prayers and if she allowed any lapse of time between them, she should do Ghusl again for Asr prayers. Similarly if she keeps any time gap between Maghrib and Isha prayers, she should do Ghusl again for Isha prayers.

All these rules apply when bleeding is so excessive that it continues soiling the pad etc. But if it takes longer to soil the cotton or pad, and a woman has enough time to pray one or more Namaz in between, then, as per obligatory precaution, she would change the pad or wash it to make Pak and then do Ghusl only when the cloth covering the pad or cotton is fully soaked.

For example, if a woman praying Namaz of Zuhr finds out that the cloth is fully soaked again before the prayers of Asr, she would do Ghusl for Asr prayers.

And if she finds that the flow of blood is slow enough to allow two or more prayers to be offered before the cotton or cloth is totally soiled with blood, there will be no need for Ghusl before the ensuing prayer. For example, if she finds that there is enough time to offer even Maghrib and Isha prayers, before the cloth is fully soaked, she would pray Maghrib and Isha without Ghusl.

In every case, the Ghusl in excessive Istihaza does not require Wudhu after it.

403. If istihaza blood is seen before the time for prayers has set in, and the woman has not performed Wudhu or Ghusl for that bleeding, she should perform Wudhu or Ghusl at the time of prayers, even though she may not be mustahaza at that time.

Why should allow the use of garments as slave shackles and call ourselves a free nation?

Originally posted by mysterioustranger
Good. If we went to her country, we would have to abide by their ways. Theyre here...so abide by ours.

I was under the impression that "your way" is freedom. You know like freedom to wear what ever the hell one desires.

reply to post by PsykoOps

It not like Burger King "Have it your way". Not when its a matter of safety for the public and sometimes the wear-er-person themselves.

Elizabeth Smart was kidnapped and hidden in plain sight of people with a scarf covering her face, who could have rescued her. And thats just one example of not knowing whats behind it.

Originally posted by wevebeenassimilated
We are SUPPOSED to have freedoms in this country. It's pretty obvious that they are rapidly being stripped away but we are supposed to be protected by the Constitution.

What about the freedom of the property owner? If one owned a mall/store/business and barred identity concealing clothing, religious in nature or not, would that not be acceptable?

I'm all for personal freedoms, but it goes both ways. If you want to wear a face concealing headscarf in public, fine. But if a business owner wants to bar that type of concealment in their establishment, I also say fine as long as it's clearly posted. While her motive may be harmless, as a business owner I would be concerned this could be utilized to conceal identities of those who wish to commit crimes and get away without being identified.

Originally posted by smyleegrl
source

A Muslim woman has accused a New Jersey shopping mall security guard of trying to force her to remove her head-covering garment.

“He came into my face and made a hand gesture like he was going to lift my veil off,’ ” Wakeelah Salaam, 30, told The Post of her ordeal at the Bridgewater Commons Mall last Saturday.

“I felt like he was going to do something. I didn’t feel safe in the mall.”

The US-born Salaam said the confrontation happened about 10 minutes after she entered the mall with her two young sons.

She was wearing a Muslim veil known as a niqab, which covered her entire head and face except for her eyes.

If I went to a predominately Muslim country they expect me to honor their laws and social traditions, here in USA we don't cover our faces unless the temperature falls below freezing or there is a criminal intent, she no doubt wasn't under either situation yet, here it isn't normal it makes us nervous, we Americans actually do have feelings which can create a fearful outcome, they in my country live in a normal matter. I personally don't feel sorry for her, her style is representing a American takeover of a unwanted religion, we already have the Zionist and Christian thumpers who display shear radicalism we don't need more of religious nutts invading my country. She needs to go to a country that respects the hijab head covering subdued woman.

Greetings, ATS,

Ran across this story and thought I'd share. Personally, I don't see a problem with the woman wearing her garment, but my guess is there's a fear of potential hidden items? I find that kinda ridiculous, considering that you could hide bombs or what have you in any type of clothing.

As a Western woman, I find the veil distasteful, but that's my opinion and only reflects how I would feel if I were required to wear it. I am quite aware that many Muslim women feel differently abou the veil, and they have every right to wear it.

So I guess my question is....how do you feel about this? Is it even an issue?

reply to post by marg6043


I totally agree. It's the same in Canada. They flee their country because of all the oppression and war. They come to our countries and and bring the very customs which propagated the life style they were running away from.

reply to post by XLR8R


Another who did not read the OP.....the lady in the OP is American, she was born with the same freedoms as any other person from the US and should be allowed to follow her religious practices as any other person.

I think everyone should be forced to wear something that identifies their religous beliefs. Yellow stars on all jews, giant cross nailed to the christians, etc. If someone isn't religious then they should be forced to wear no clothes what so ever. This way we can identify who to be scared of, as Americans we should ahve the right to know who to turn and run away from. Especially women and children!



/sarcasm. What a joke. Even the mall officials came out and said what their own employee did was wrong. We may as well close the borders, kick out all the minorities, and onnly practice christianity...Americans are getting dumber and dumber.

Seriously? As long as she is not harming anyone it is nobodies business if she want to wear the ridiculous veil. Why do so many people think they need to force everyone to conform to their beliefs. I personally think the Muslim veil etc is ridiculous and as backwards as it gets and wonder how people can be so backwards assed and regressed to the 7th century in this day and age however where is the harm?

If the guard really did that without provocation, then he'd be dead wrong. If a nun can run around in her habit, then a muslim woman should be able to run around in her getup as well. There are cameras all over malls. Playback the tapes ...

Originally posted by fnpmitchreturns
Why should allow the use of garments as slave shackles and call ourselves a free nation

I personally agree with your description of her getup, but it's her religious choice to wear it.
There are avenues of escape for women in America who want to leave Islam. If she wants
out .. she can get out. In the mean time, she is free to practice her religion - which in her eyes
includes wearing all that stuff.

reply to post by smyleegrl


There is two sides to this. One is that it's private property and if they have a policy aginst certain dress atire then they should ask said person to leave if they canot abide.

On the other hand, this is profiling and uncool in some cases. It is a very sensitive issue.

I don't blame the woman for feeling how she does. Removal of her Nicab and Hijab is against her faith and way of life and she should not have to. I personally feel this was unwarranted.

reply to post by boymonkey74


Whatever, I did read the OP. The customs that oppress women and push for Sharia law are brought here by people like her regardless if they was born here or not. Further more I do believe in religious freedoms as long as it doesn't infringe on the freedom of the people. I live in a community were there are a huge bunch of muslims and a lot of women that were oppressed by their husbands due to those customs are now divorced. Most of the ones I talked to hated the vails and what they represented.

reply to post by ManFromEurope


No Muslim HAS to wear a veil AT ALL anywhere. It is a cultural thing, not a religious issue. Muslims who do not wish to join our Western society choose to wear the veil (or more likely, their husbands choose it for them.)

reply to post by Flint2011


It is NOT against her Faith at all, but a cultural choice. It is her (or her husband's) way of saying that although they live in the West they want no part of our Society.

Originally posted by ManFromEurope

Originally posted by mysterioustranger
Good. If we went to her country, we would have to abide by their ways. Theyre here...so abide by ours.

BS! Your wife wouldn't have to wear a veil there, so why should that muslim woman remove hers in your mall?

Yes, in many areas his wife would certainly have to wear the veil, but that isn't the point.

Here's the thing, the US had freedom of religion, but that means the government will not mandate a religion on the population, it doesn't mean anything goes as long as you can blame it on a religion. We can't do ritual sacrifice, and we can't have multiple wives. If there is a city ordinance, or a mall restriction on head gear and glasses, then everyone must abide, there is no religious exemption. If she doesn't like the restriction, then shop at a different mall. It isn't violating anyone's religion to make them follow the rules and laws.

I've been asked to remove my hat and sunglasses. I wasn't offended. Should I just put a crucifix on them next time and refuse to remove them?

Religious freedom is the freedom to believe however one wants to believe, but it is not the freedom to act however one wants to act.

I think its a stupid rule, but I don't think it is discrimination.

reply to post by smyleegrl


Speaking as an experienced retail clerk it's kind of hard to identify a thief if they're hiding their face. They could shoplift and take off the viel in a bathroom stall or whatever.
The most disturbing thing is this woman is born here, act American G**D***IT!!! It's one thing if you were born in a country that does that and it's part of your culture, quite another to degrade and lower yourself as an American wearing that to announce to the world your are less than your male counter parts. (Read up on why they are to wear this garment) It's a slap in the face to every freedom loving woman in America!

Originally posted by mysterioustranger
Good. If we went to her country, we would have to abide by their ways. Theyre here...so abide by ours.

I agree with you on that.