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For Thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever and ever
So several weeks ago, my fiancee (Protestant) and I were out with one of her bridesmaids (Protestant daughter of a Minister) and her boyfriend, and she asked me why I preferred the TLM. Describing some of the liberal abuses to the GIRM that was taken at the Church where the 4 of us attended college, I tried using a comparison that they would understand. I said "What if, during one of your services, someone used the wrong words for the Our Father? Wouldn't that upset you?" After some debate about whether it was called the Our Father or the Lord's Prayer, the bridesmaid said this: What do you mean, like how you Catholics changed the words of it?"
Fortunately, since we were out and my fiancee knows how quick I am to defend the faith, she defused the situation and we let it be. However, this has stuck with me since that time. The debate was over Catholics ending with "and deliver us from evil. Amen" whereas Protestants end "for the Kingdom..." I have looked at Matthew 6: 9-13 (using the NAB on the USCCB web page), and it appears to end with "but deliver us from the evil one."
Very early on in the Catholic Liturgy, the Lord's Prayer was concluded with a doxology (a prayer of praise), “For Thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever and ever”. This was not part of the original Greek Scriptural text and consequently is not included in many modern Bible translations.
However, there are other non-Scriptural writings which have been preserved from the early days of the Church. It was here, where the doxology was first found in the important document called the "Didache," (written between 70-140 AD). “Didache” (Did-ah-kay) simply means 'teaching'. The “Our Father” in the Didache had the doxology tagged onto the end without the words “the kingdom”. The tradition of the doxology was carried into the Liturgy, and became so closely associated with the Lord's Prayer that it is now often mistaken to be part of the prayer itself. The words “the kingdom” were added later and are preserved in the document “The Apostolic Constitutions” (written 250-380 AD). The “Our Father” is contained twice in the Bible (Matt. 6:9-13; Luke 11:2-4) with no doxology for although very ancient, it is not found in the original manuscripts. This is simply a prayer from the believers in the early centuries of the Church whose spirits were moved by the Holy Spirit to close this beautiful prayer in grandiose fashion. These early writings never present it as an essential part of the “Our Father”, but rather an “embolism," (added prayer), intended to increase fervor and direct the intention of the faithful.
It is believed that a copyist when copying Matthew's Gospel put a note in the margin, noting that in the Mass, we follow the “Our Father” with the doxology. A later copyist mistakenly transcribed the margin note into the text itself and it was preserved in all subsequent copies of the manuscript. The King James Version translators in 1611 A.D., (The King James Version is a Protestant Bible) used a copy of the New Testament that contained these added words. Most Protestant scholars admit that these words are not those of our Lord. But since this text was included by the translators, it is used by Protestants but is, ironically, a Catholic Liturgical prayer.
An English version of the Our Father without the doxology actually did become accepted in the English-speaking world during the reign of Edward VI when the Book of Common Prayer of the Church of England did not add the doxology. However, during the reign of Elizabeth I there was a desire to rid the Church of England from any Catholic vestiges. Because of this wish for severance and not because of authenticity, the doxology of the Lord’s Prayer was re-included.
Therefore, when non-Catholics ask us why we make the “Our Father” shorter than their form, we should tell them that the added words which they use are not a part of the prayer as given by our Blessed Lord, but rather a pious addition which is ancient but not original.
The Doxology is found in the King James Version, it is true. The King James Revised Version, however, omits it and makes a marginal note that some manuscripts have this but that the better ones did not. So, too, the Revised Standard Version says in the footnote under Matt. 6:13:13:
"Other authorities, some ancient, add in some form 'for thine is the kingdom and the power and the glory, forever, Amen'." Therefore, we might say that NON-CATHOLICS are not using the text of the Lord's Prayer found in the latest versions of their own Bible.
So, it appears that it is the Protestants who are using a non-scriptural version of the Lord’s Prayer
The question then arises: "Did the prayer in Matthew originally contain the concluding phrase as found in the Traditional Text?" Among the Greek uncials it is found in W (fifth century), L (eighth century), 0233 (eighth century), K (ninth century), D (ninth century), Q (ninth century), and P (tenth century). It is found in the majority of all Greek minuscules such as: 28, 33, 565, 700, 892, 1009, 1010, 1071, 1079, 1195, 1216, 1230, 1241, 1242, 1365, 1546, 1646, 2174 (dating from the ninth century to the twelfth century). It is also found in the majority of all existing Greek lectionaries. Therefore, the weight of the Greek witnesses argues for its inclusion and validity.
Originally posted by benrl
What I always have heard growing up in a protestant church about the lords prayer was the repetition thing.
""And when you are praying, do not use meaningless repetition as the Gentiles do, for they suppose that they will be heard for their many words."
Matthew 6:7.
Not so much the content but the use of a "script" to pray.
In the lords prayer Jesus give an example of how to pray, not a script to use to the end of time.
Interesting
So, it appears that it is the Protestants who are using a non-scriptural version of the Lord’s Prayer
That shows much ignorance to the Protestants faith, as they don't use scripts to pray btwedit on 23-5-2012 by benrl because: (no reason given)
"Whence, then, came this observance? The forty days abstinence of Lent was directly borrowed from the worshippers of the Babylonian goddess [Astarte / Ishtar]. Such a Lent of forty days, 'in the spring of the year,' is still observed by the Yezidis or Pagan Devil-worshippers of Koordistan, who have inherited it from their early masters, the Babylonians.
Originally posted by pacifier2012
Here is an interesting fact that confuses so many religious christians (the ones who don't act on faith just the letter of the law)....
There was a letter to the Laodiceans.
Now if this letter still existed it may be part of the NT but it doesn't exist anymore. It was written by Paul himself.
So my question is a word here or a word there is not of that much consequence to ones salvation with hundreds of thousands of Chinese became radical Christians in underground churches based on a few scraps of scripture and not the whole NT.
The church started without a NT at all !!
The conclusion is there are many freaky, bound up, religious people who call themselves Christians and yet can't figure out that it has nothing to do with knowledge of the printed words....something the Bible they clutch so tightly even tells them !!!.
Common bible versions, such as the New International Version, and the Contemporary English Version, exclude the doxology from the Lord's Prayer in the main body of the text (in Matthew 6:9-13), and instead feature it as a footnote on the page. Critical editions of the New Testament used by the United Bible Societies (an organisation representing 145 national bible societies) concur that this doxology does not belong to the original manuscripts of Matthew's gospel, and seems to have been added at a later date.
Good observation. Catholics and Protestants alike are merely "playing Christian" and don't realize or understand how or why. There is only one Church, only ever has been one. Founded 33AD. All the rest are knock-offs and knock-off of knock-offs.