WTC7, the smoking gun that just will not go away until the traitors are rounded up

Originally posted by Flatcoat
reply to post by Varemia

 

I don't think there is any reason to "interpret" what these firefighters are saying. They explain fairly clearly what happened.

And yet the firefighters describing the unstable building and damage caused by WTC 1 is to be completely ignored or interpreted as something completely different? These double standards are ridiculous.

Originally posted by TrickoftheShade

Originally posted by kidtwist


Which poster did I attack? Can you be specific? I dont see anyone personally being attacked in my comment!
The evidence we present speaks for itself.

You made a series of implications, partly about me, partly about other posters, suggesting that they have been paid to be here or are contributing their thoughts for dishonest reasons. That's attacking the person, not the content of what they say. It's also something for which you have no real evidence. Pretty much like all your "ideas" about 9/11.

No I did not at all! I've never attacked anyone here! In fact the only people being hostile are the OS defenders!

We have said that some people have been here a long time, and must be getting paid for it, but no names were mentioned.

That conclusion was based on the fact some members have been upholding the OS for years, and all they come out with is disinfo. So becuase of certain behaviours, the conclusion was drawn.

If you can post any comment where I have personally attacked you, I'd happily apologise, but I'm not here to attack anyone, just have healthy debates. Unfortunately, it seems that most OS defenders are very hostile, as if it's a deliberate tactic to put of people who do not believe the official story. If you lot calm down your behaviour, and provide some actual proper evidence, and proper reasoning, then no one would be suspicious.

You think it's alright for you lot to call us 'truthers' which is banned by the moderators, if you go back a few pages there is a warning to you lot, however, 'waypastvne' obvious hasn't seen the warning! Yes, that includes you waypastvne!

We don't have 'ideas' about 9/11, we have presented real FACTS, NIST is based on ideas, and has excluded a lot of relevant facts. We are not stupid, we can see through the whole facade going on here, and in the 9/11 fairy tale.

Originally posted by Varemia

And yet the firefighters describing the unstable building and damage caused by WTC 1 is to be completely ignored or interpreted as something completely different? These double standards are ridiculous.

Of course it was unstable, explosions were going off inside it, have you not seen the Barry Jennings video!?!

I know you have, and I know what stupid answer you will come out with! You discredit everything! You're not even worth debating with.

Originally posted by kidtwist

Originally posted by Varemia

And yet the firefighters describing the unstable building and damage caused by WTC 1 is to be completely ignored or interpreted as something completely different? These double standards are ridiculous.

Of course it was unstable, explosions were going off inside it, have you not seen the Barry Jennings video!?!

I know you have, and I know what stupid answer you will come out with! You discredit everything! You're not even worth debating with.

The power went off in the building before Barry Jennings even started going downstairs. Based on the pictures of the room he was in and the schematics of the stairs, there were no windows once he started going up and down. The power didn't go off until WTC 1 collapsed and severed the power lines. That puts Barry Jennings' entire statement about the tower being standing as false. It also means that in the time he spent slowly going down the stairs, it was enough time for the second tower to collapse, at which point the "explosions" happened.

Stop being naive and get with the program. There are facts being discussed here, not conspiracy faith.

Originally posted by waypastvne

Unlike Truthers, such as yourself, who like to spread lies and misinformation. We believe the truth is the truth and will present it as accurately as possible, and will correct bad information no matter who makes it.

The majority of the fuel was located right behind the engines by the way. Those came out the other side of the building.

For one, mods have banned the word 'truther' (see a few pages back).

Secondly, you know full well that the people who disbelieve the tv story are providing accurate evidence, and you know you are spreading disinfo, and you are only here to uphold the story everyone was fed on tv.

You only have to look at all the youtube videos and forums, to see how many likes there are for each piece of accurate ninfo from the people you call 'truthers' and when one of you lot post a piece of disinfo on youtube etc, you do not get the same support! That alone speaks volumes.

The damage is done, the OS really is pointless backing anymore, so many people have become wise that it's all just a lie. You lie, the other OS defenders lie, do you think people will believe anything you say anymore?!

Your tactics are just making matters worse for the OS.

Originally posted by kidtwist

You only have to look at all the youtube videos and forums, to see how many likes there are for each piece of accurate ninfo from the people you call 'truthers' and when one of you lot post a piece of disinfo on youtube etc, you do not get the same support! That alone speaks volumes.

Youtube likes are the arbiter of truth, then? That's ridiculous. Comments like this deserve to go in a special file.

Originally posted by Varemia

The power went off in the building before Barry Jennings even started going downstairs. Based on the pictures of the room he was in and the schematics of the stairs, there were no windows once he started going up and down. The power didn't go off until WTC 1 collapsed and severed the power lines. That puts Barry Jennings' entire statement about the tower being standing as false. It also means that in the time he spent slowly going down the stairs, it was enough time for the second tower to collapse, at which point the "explosions" happened.

Stop being naive and get with the program. There are facts being discussed here, not conspiracy faith.

Nice try but Barry went up in the elevator, then made a phone call when he first arrived just after 9am. This time is consistent with Barry's account, and NIST's report that says WTC7 was evacuated at 09:03, then very soon after arrival the explosion kicked in below Barry & Hess.

So the elevator & phone was working meaning the power was working, and he also mentioned that the lights flickered, then it went dark when the explosion below him occured.

There were windows because they broke one, and were calling for help! The building had numerous windows, you know this, and he said he saw the towers were still standing when the explosion hit, it's in the uncut video.
He is confident about his timeframe, so I'm more inclined to believe proper eye witnesses, over some random person on a forum that was not in the building!



You deliberately want his story to be false because you are defending the OS, we are not stupid, and repeated attempts to lie about what you know is true is ridiculous! Another person not worth debating with!

Originally posted by DrEugeneFixer


Youtube likes are the arbiter of truth, then? That's ridiculous. Comments like this deserve to go in a special file.

It's actually a good indicator to see who thinks the OS is a load of rubbish!

Originally posted by kidtwist
Nice try but Barry went up in the elevator, then made a phone call when he first arrived just after 9am. This time is consistent with Barry's account, and NIST's report that says WTC7 was evacuated at 09:03, then very soon after arrival the explosion kicked in below Barry & Hess.

So the elevator & phone was working meaning the power was working, and he also mentioned that the lights flickered, then it went dark when the explosion below him occured.

There were windows because they broke one, and were calling for help! The building had numerous windows, you know this, and he said he saw the towers were still standing when the explosion hit, it's in the uncut video.
He is confident about his timeframe, so I'm more inclined to believe proper eye witnesses, over some random person on a forum that was not in the building!

You deliberately want his story to be false because you are defending the OS, we are not stupid, and repeated attempts to lie about what you know is true is ridiculous! Another person not worth debating with!

You clearly haven't actually checked out what Barry said. You must be forming an entire imaginary storyline in your head while you read things. Either that or you are actually believing the youtube videos without fact-checking them.

The power went out when they tried to take the elevator down. There are no windows in the command room. They didn't seek a window until after the explosion on the stairs around the 7th floor. Then, they were facing North, away from the towers. Your post is full of inaccuracies.

Originally posted by kidtwist

You think it's alright for you lot to call us 'truthers' which is banned by the moderators, if you go back a few pages there is a warning to you lot, however, 'waypastvne' obvious hasn't seen the warning! Yes, that includes you waypastvne!

We were told by a moderator:
"Don't use "truther" as an invective."
In compliance with that, I have not used the word "Truther" as an invective against any Truther.

Here is a link showing pictures of the OEM on the 23rd floor of WTC 7:

Link

It's split into a bunch of different sections. Only a few have a the curtained windows, and in Barry's testimony, he didn't go much farther than seeing still-hot coffee on peoples' desks. There is no guarantee and he never states in his testimony that he saw the trade centers through a window at that point. He assumed they were still standing.

Originally posted by kidtwist

Originally posted by DrEugeneFixer


Youtube likes are the arbiter of truth, then? That's ridiculous. Comments like this deserve to go in a special file.

It's actually a good indicator to see who thinks the OS is a load of rubbish!

Exactly. YouTube commenters--the same people who made Rebecca Black and Justin Bieber stars, and in general the least literate community to be found on the internet--think the "OS" is a load of rubbish. It's a great indicator.

Originally posted by kidtwist

Originally posted by Varemia

The power went off in the building before Barry Jennings even started going downstairs. Based on the pictures of the room he was in and the schematics of the stairs, there were no windows once he started going up and down. The power didn't go off until WTC 1 collapsed and severed the power lines. That puts Barry Jennings' entire statement about the tower being standing as false. It also means that in the time he spent slowly going down the stairs, it was enough time for the second tower to collapse, at which point the "explosions" happened.

Stop being naive and get with the program. There are facts being discussed here, not conspiracy faith.

Nice try but Barry went up in the elevator, then made a phone call when he first arrived just after 9am. This time is consistent with Barry's account, and NIST's report that says WTC7 was evacuated at 09:03, then very soon after arrival the explosion kicked in below Barry & Hess.

So the elevator & phone was working meaning the power was working, and he also mentioned that the lights flickered, then it went dark when the explosion below him occured.

There were windows because they broke one, and were calling for help! The building had numerous windows, you know this, and he said he saw the towers were still standing when the explosion hit, it's in the uncut video.
He is confident about his timeframe, so I'm more inclined to believe proper eye witnesses, over some random person on a forum that was not in the building!

You deliberately want his story to be false because you are defending the OS, we are not stupid, and repeated attempts to lie about what you know is true is ridiculous! Another person not worth debating with!

The window they broke was on the north side and the Towers were to the south.

You are not seriously thinking why Barry Jennings and Michael Hess had to take to the stairs at all. What is your explanation ?

You think Barry Jennings testimony is particularly valuable because he was an eye-witness but why don't you extend the same courtesy to Michael Hess who was with him throughout ?

news.bbc.co.uk...

reply to post by exponent

It's been more than a decade, how long is it going to take?

As you know in this case it took 65 years.
Gulf of Tonkin incident it took 40 years.

This firefighter seems to agree with me...

Originally posted by Varemia

Originally posted by Flatcoat
reply to post by Varemia

 

I don't think there is any reason to "interpret" what these firefighters are saying. They explain fairly clearly what happened.

And yet the firefighters describing the unstable building and damage caused by WTC 1 is to be completely ignored or interpreted as something completely different? These double standards are ridiculous.

Well NIST ignored the firemen's testimonies about explosions in their reports, how do you explain that?

NIST never even checked for explosives either, bet you cannot explain that?!

The firemen knew full well there were explosions going off insidethe towers and WTC7, so it's no wonder they thought it was going to come down! It stands to reason.

Here is a great article pointing out all of NIST failings, deliberate exclusions from the report, and general fradulent science. You should read it, you might actually learn something.

The Mysterious Collapse of WTC 7: Why NIST’s Final 9/11 Report is Unscientific and False1
www.veteranstoday.com...

I recommned you watch this too:

Danny Jowenko - WTC7 Demolition Expert Part 1 of 3


Danny Jowenko & Barry Jennings both dead? Big coincidence.

Originally posted by Alfie1

You think Barry Jennings testimony is particularly valuable because he was an eye-witness but why don't you extend the same courtesy to Michael Hess who was with him throughout ?

news.bbc.co.uk...

I don't trust the BBC's deliberately edited accounts, they did the same with Barry's video, carefully edited to twist it around, but the uncut version does not lie, unlike the BBC. Wasn't it the BBC that reported WTC7 was down 20 mins before it actually was?! Also, it is a know fact that Hess changed his initial account.

A government run tv station is not to be trusted, and they have proven they are untrustworthy with Barry's & Michaels edited accounts, and with the report that WTC7 had collapsed. I know a lot about the BBC, so you are not posting credible sources, you know this anyway.

BTW, Barry took the elevator it's documented, I'll dig it out later when I can re-find it.

reply to post by kidtwist


Danny Jowenko also thought that WTC1 and 2 were not demolitions. Do you believe him?

It's interesting because you seem to take the bits of the firefighters testimony that you like - explosions - but throw out the bits you don't - that they fully expected 7 to collapse.

Can you see that this doesn't make it look like you're searching for the Truth, but that you're attempting to corroborate a story you're already decided on?

Originally posted by kidtwist

Also, it is a know fact that Hess changed his initial account.

So did Barry. But you appear to have ignored that.

Originally posted by FurvusRexCaeli

Originally posted by kidtwist

Originally posted by DrEugeneFixer


Youtube likes are the arbiter of truth, then? That's ridiculous. Comments like this deserve to go in a special file.

It's actually a good indicator to see who thinks the OS is a load of rubbish!

Exactly. YouTube commenters--the same people who made Rebecca Black and Justin Bieber stars, and in general the least literate community to be found on the internet--think the "OS" is a load of rubbish. It's a great indicator.

Well, it's a good indicator for all the youtube video evidence from that day. Bieber is a different target audience and cannot be remotely connected in any way to 9/11.

You know this, but you deliberately included beiber to take away from what I was getting at.

Where are the majority of 9/11 videos hosted? Youtube, are 5-7 year olds interested in 9/11, NO!

So you know what I'm saying. All video evidence that puts holes in the OS barely have any dislikes, but plenty of likes. That is a good indicator that from the videos presented, most people support the inside job claim!

Originally posted by Varemia
Here is a link showing pictures of the OEM on the 23rd floor of WTC 7:

Link

It's split into a bunch of different sections. Only a few have a the curtained windows, and in Barry's testimony, he didn't go much farther than seeing still-hot coffee on peoples' desks. There is no guarantee and he never states in his testimony that he saw the trade centers through a window at that point. He assumed they were still standing.

edit on 28-5-2012 by Varemia because: fixed link

He never assumed anything, he confirmed they were standing. Do you think he would not be able to feel and hear both collapses from inside WTC7? Dont be so dumb, watch Barry Jennings uncut to see his testimony, he was there, you were not.