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WTC7, the smoking gun that just will not go away until the traitors are rounded up

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posted on May, 26 2012 @ 10:16 AM
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Originally posted by GenRadek
reply to post by GiodanoBruno
 



And how can the top-section of a building, with no sufficient velocity, can knock or pulverize the tubed steel/concrete core?? Boy, you love to assume physics.


It is something called: potential energy and kinetic energy.




4. We lost only 3 USS carriers to Kamikaze. And 2 out 3 continued its tenure. Those three carriers had bombs and the Jap planes had bombs. No bombs were used in WTC, according to you and NIST..The Kamikaze damages were not caused by the fuel or the impact of the aluminum Jap planes. Seems You are in denial of your own history. And please don't give me a list of fighters and artillery ship that sank do to Kamikazes. Let's compare the sheer size of carrier to the sheer size of a skyscraper.


The plane didnt cause much damage to the ships? Really?
I am aware of the bombs strapped to planes or loaded for added punch, but the plane impact DID do quite a bit of damage to the ships, depending on where and how it hit.

Also why are you comparing a warship to a building?

You want to complain about size vs size, how is it that a bullet the size of a bumble bee can kill a person that is 180lbs and stands 6'5"? How is it that a bullet can kill a full sized rhino? Please do not go down this ridiculous path about size and how something small cannot do serious damage to something much larger. Explain that to the Shuttle Columbia, or the Titanic. A piece of ice, something you can throw in your drink, or cut into funny shapes, or break off your gutter and smash on the side walk, managed to destroy two large complex vehicles, which were both technologically complex and sophisticated. I guess they were actually sabotaged too right? After all, I once threw ice at a car door, and the ice exploded. There is no way ice could sink a ship or destroy a space shuttle.


That's. Right Gdeck the Jap planes ,when talking about all kamikaze impacts on Carriers", they did not do catastrophic damage. Only 3 carriers, like I said, received massive damage. When comparing plane impacts against solid steel structures, BOMBS should not be admissible in this debate. Bombs were the cause for those 3 carriers to have catastrophic damage. The plane impact "alone" does not and has not ever done serious damage on any steel structure. EVER!

Just read up on it. Its good learn our history.

And I am not complaining about size or anything. I am not complaining, we are discussing in detail, everything that happened on 911. Furthermore, your bullet theory is wrong. People or animals are living things which in turn if anything cause blood loss they die,, hello?. So using a weak theory with living things against a bullets is really stupid. My size comparison is not a ridiculous path, when done correctly ,no one can debunk it. And 392tons of aluminum cannot pulverize 1,200,000 tons of steel/concrete.

But let's talk about SSColumbia: how big is our atmosphere? I think its a bit bigger than a re-entery space shuttle. The foam or ice or whatever you want to call it is not what killed those 7 astronauts,, they were incinerated...lol... Sorry I had to laugh.

Let's go to the next one, Titanic: Her length is just under 900 feet and how big are glaciers? My point exactly my smart friend. Glaciers(not a piece of ice) can be much ,much , much bigger than a cheaply built cruise-liner. Ice wasn't the cause , it was the mass itself that trumped the Titanic.

Sophistication is not important and pretty much bunk when confronted against something gigantic.


You think you are so smart but you have been behind the 8ball since 8-23-08.

All the best!




posted on May, 26 2012 @ 10:17 AM
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Originally posted by exponent

Originally posted by maxella1
The white house also approved their report. Lol

Right but CTBUH is actually a professional organisation. I don't think they have any political connection I'm aware of. My point is that if their report is as crazily out of this world as 4hero and others seem to think, why are these professional groups accepting it? I'm pretty sure I read even the ASCE said something?

It doesn't make sense to me how both could be true.


In other words you are saying that the federal government have no influence in professional organizations, is that right?

For example the US government would not make a private professional organization like let's say BP to pay $1 billion dollars for an accident without any kind of court ruling. Is that what you are saying or am I confused?



posted on May, 26 2012 @ 10:26 AM
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Originally posted by TrickoftheShade

Originally posted by GiodanoBruno


And what about you'all Paid-OSers?


So you admit that you're spending your time discussing stuff with people you think are paid to waste your time. I'd say that was pathetic.


In my opinion this is better than facebook, you guys are just too much fun.

Sometimes you piss me off but I don't stay angry too long. After all you are part of the reason I started researching 9/11 in the first place.



posted on May, 26 2012 @ 10:31 AM
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Originally posted by maxella1
In other words you are saying that the federal government have no influence in professional organizations, is that right?

I didn't say no influence, but I find it extremely hard to believe that they can somehow influence a bunch of professional engineers. I know if some shady guy came up to me demanding that I pretend I supported something I didn't I would just record him and dump it on the Internet somewhere. I don't see that it's possible for large groups of people to be coerced like this.


For example the US government would not make a private professional organization like let's say BP to pay $1 billion dollars for an accident without any kind of court ruling. Is that what you are saying or am I confused?

I don't know much about the deal with BP, wasn't this them trying to avoid getting dragged into a lawsuit? If they can pay $1b now or $2.5b if they get sued, it seems a pretty wise investment! I don't know much about the topic though so maybe I am getting confused.



posted on May, 26 2012 @ 10:45 AM
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reply to post by exponent
 



I didn't say no influence, but I find it extremely hard to believe that they can somehow influence a bunch of professional engineers. I know if some shady guy came up to me demanding that I pretend I supported something I didn't I would just record him and dump it on the Internet somewhere. I don't see that it's possible for large groups of people to be coerced like this.


I know... I couldn’t believe it ether. Maybe in fifty years or so they'll apologize for 9/11.

An Apology 65 Years Late



PRESIDENT CLINTON: The United States Government did something that was wrong, deeply, profoundly, morally wrong. It was an outrage to our commitment to integrity and equality for all our citizens. We can end the silence. We can stop turning our heads away. We can look at you in the eye and finally say on behalf of the American people what the United States Government did was shameful, and I am sorry. (Applause) CHARLAYNE HUNTER-GAULT: This apology was 65 years in coming. Now the U.S. government has officially said, "sorry" for its role in the Tuskegee syphilis experiment. It started out with good intentions--medical doctors trying to find a way to curb the raging syphilis epidemic that was taking its highest toll on blacks in the South.



I don't know much about the deal with BP, wasn't this them trying to avoid getting dragged into a lawsuit? If they can pay $1b now or $2.5b if they get sued, it seems a pretty wise investment! I don't know much about the topic though so maybe I am getting confused.


Maybe but it doesn’t change the fact that Obama reached a deal with BP in a private meeting, and not some lawyer representing the victims and BP settling out of court. US government can do a lot of things that don't sound even possible sometimes.



posted on May, 26 2012 @ 10:48 AM
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Originally posted by maxella1
I know... I couldn’t believe it ether. Maybe in fifty years or so they'll apologize for 9/11.

Don't quite see how this is relevant sorry.


Maybe but it doesn’t change the fact that Obama reached a deal with BP in a private meeting, and not some lawyer representing the victims and BP settling out of court. US government can do a lot of things that don't sound even possible sometimes.

I can believe this, but convincing an organisation of a few thousand engineers to knowingly cover up the murder of 3000 US citizens? I cannot believe any group would be willing to do this, and I can't imagine any possible way that they could be coerced into doing it against their will or without them knowing.

Sorry man but that is a pretty extreme claim so I'd want to see some really good evidence to support it.



posted on May, 26 2012 @ 10:55 AM
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Originally posted by exponent

Originally posted by maxella1
I know... I couldn’t believe it ether. Maybe in fifty years or so they'll apologize for 9/11.

Don't quite see how this is relevant sorry.


Maybe but it doesn’t change the fact that Obama reached a deal with BP in a private meeting, and not some lawyer representing the victims and BP settling out of court. US government can do a lot of things that don't sound even possible sometimes.

I can believe this, but convincing an organisation of a few thousand engineers to knowingly cover up the murder of 3000 US citizens? I cannot believe any group would be willing to do this, and I can't imagine any possible way that they could be coerced into doing it against their will or without them knowing.

Sorry man but that is a pretty extreme claim so I'd want to see some really good evidence to support it.


Now with this in mind. Think what if CTBUH was approached by the government and was told that disagreeing would jeopardize national security. What do you think CTBUH would do? And would you consider that if CTBUH agreed, it was with good intentions. National Security is a big deal don't you think?

It's funny how everything is irrelevant if it goes against your beliefs.



posted on May, 26 2012 @ 10:59 AM
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Originally posted by maxella1
It's funny how everything is irrelevant if it goes against your beliefs.

This is the second time you've been offensive in a few posts. Why? What have I ever done to you. I'm posting honestly and politely and you keep having these snide little jabs as if it helped your case.


Now with this in mind. Think what if CTBUH was approached by the government and was told that disagreeing would jeopardize national security. What do you think CTBUH would do? And would you consider that if CTBUH agreed, it was with good intentions. National Security is a big deal don't you think?

National Security is a big deal, but I cannot believe for one second that a bunch of engineers would just say 'oh ok then we will lie entirely about our doubts'. Would 'National Security' convince you? Would it convince me? I think the answer to both of those questions is no, so why do you think it would convince people who literally agree to a moral contract prohibiting this?



posted on May, 26 2012 @ 11:27 AM
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Originally posted by maxella1
It's funny how everything is irrelevant if it goes against your beliefs.



Originally posted by exponent
This is the second time you've been offensive in a few posts. Why? What have I ever done to you. I'm posting honestly and politely and you keep having these snide little jabs as if it helped your case.


I dont see how that comment is offensive? It's not different to you saying in a previous post today that the 'truther movement' call people disinfo if they dont agree with you, which you know is a false statement.

Seriously exponent, practice what you preach, and stop over dramatizing for no reason. It discredits you.



posted on May, 26 2012 @ 12:18 PM
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Originally posted by maxella1


In my opinion this is better than facebook, you guys are just too much fun.

Sometimes you piss me off but I don't stay angry too long. After all you are part of the reason I started researching 9/11 in the first place.


So you're happy to waste your time when a crime of this magnitude has occurred? You're content knowing that you're doing what the perpetrators want you to do?

I'd say that makes you part of the problem.



posted on May, 26 2012 @ 12:22 PM
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Originally posted by maxella1


Now with this in mind. Think what if CTBUH was approached by the government and was told that disagreeing would jeopardize national security. What do you think CTBUH would do? And would you consider that if CTBUH agreed, it was with good intentions. National Security is a big deal don't you think?



So if you received a message from somebody ordering you to, say, stop posting here for reasons of "national security" you would immediately do so? And lie about your reasons for doing so?

Why?



posted on May, 26 2012 @ 12:45 PM
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reply to post by exponent
 



This is the second time you've been offensive in a few posts. Why? What have I ever done to you. I'm posting honestly and politely and you keep having these snide little jabs as if it helped your case.


I meant no disrespect, honestly. I was only making an observation.
The story I posted is very relevant because it involves professional scientists, doctors and Federal Government engaging in unethical, immoral and illegal activities in secrecy for many years which caused pain and suffering to other human-beings. To them it seemed like it was done with good intentions.

But you dismiss it as irrelevant as if engineers are held to higher standards than scientist and doctors. Because otherwise it would contradict your personal beliefs that engineers would never do such a thing.


National Security is a big deal, but I cannot believe for one second that a bunch of engineers would just say 'oh ok then we will lie entirely about our doubts'. Would 'National Security' convince you? Would it convince me? I think the answer to both of those questions is no, so why do you think it would convince people who literally agree to a moral contract prohibiting this?


I was never put in such position, so I don't know if it would convince me. I know you are not American but I'm sure you are familiar with American politics at least a little. How did the Government convinced the people that Iraq had WND's, and that it was in out National Security interests to invade that country? Or the Patriot Act, even though it contradicts our constitution? How many things get thrown out of court on the basis of National Security? Now that we know for years that Iraq had none of the WMD's we were told, how is it that Americans are still convinced that it's in our National Security interests to continue what is being done in Iraq? The Feds scare the crap out of people in the name of National security.

Now here's another question..

Lately the FBI had a lot of success stopping terrorist attacks by going undercover and getting these people to try an attack with fake devises and stuff. I will assume that you are familiar with what I’m talking about. If not just Google it.

Would you consider a possibility that 9/11 was just like that? Based on the information we have available to us today, the hijackers were known to the intelligence agencies,the Bush Administration had many warnings about a planned attack within the US. What if it was a covert operation that went very wrong. Something happened and they were unable to stop it in time?

I was watching a show yesterday its called “Bait Car”. It's where the cops use a bait car to catch car thefts. They get a vehicle equipped with video and audio devises and remote kill switch, then they park it in a bad area with unlocked doors and a key in the ignition. Once a thief starts driving they flip the switch, the car dies and they arrest a guy for grand theft auto. Well in that episode the devises failed and the bait car actually got away.

What if 9/11 was just like that?



posted on May, 26 2012 @ 12:53 PM
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Originally posted by TrickoftheShade

Originally posted by maxella1


In my opinion this is better than facebook, you guys are just too much fun.

Sometimes you piss me off but I don't stay angry too long. After all you are part of the reason I started researching 9/11 in the first place.


So you're happy to waste your time when a crime of this magnitude has occurred? You're content knowing that you're doing what the perpetrators want you to do?

I'd say that makes you part of the problem.


I'm not wasting time. I don't know how many people visit this site but I’m sure it's a lot. Every time you post your nonsense you expose it to many people. All I got to do is keep you making a fool of yourself for as long as possible. People are waking up, and the bigger the lie the angrier people get when they find out the truth.

Plus it's fun. Keep on clicking.
edit on 26-5-2012 by maxella1 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 26 2012 @ 12:55 PM
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Originally posted by TrickoftheShade

Originally posted by maxella1


Now with this in mind. Think what if CTBUH was approached by the government and was told that disagreeing would jeopardize national security. What do you think CTBUH would do? And would you consider that if CTBUH agreed, it was with good intentions. National Security is a big deal don't you think?



So if you received a message from somebody ordering you to, say, stop posting here for reasons of "national security" you would immediately do so? And lie about your reasons for doing so?

Why?


I would probable believe it and do so if it was 10 years ago. But today I know it's the opposite.

EDIT: even 5 years a go, because i still believed the fairy tale.
edit on 26-5-2012 by maxella1 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 26 2012 @ 02:21 PM
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reply to post by maxella1
 


We knew about an attack on us by the Japs before hand as the Brits broke their code . We knew it could be Pearl Harbor but assumed that they couldn't do that much damage .
If you look into the WTC history you will locate that the NY Port Authority applied for a demo permit for the demolition of the WTC twice because it was a White Elephant that bled asbestos dust and cost money to operate above what they could lease it for . It had only been partially occupied .Of course the application was denied because of the asbestos . In steps Larry Silverstien and the WTC is down and the insurance co. paid for the cleanup and it would seem that we paid back the insurers .
The question is how many people know that Dick Cheney was conducting a war game scenario on 911 that was to do a what if terrorist -----(exactly the events that happened ) on the very day it happened . He had Norad shut down and was running our threat response center . Nothing was done to counter these threats with out his word .That stinks to high heaven .
This event from a former CFR chairman started the downfall of America spiraling into the NWO garbage can .



posted on May, 26 2012 @ 02:24 PM
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Did anyone register this when it was announced in 2005?


Call For International Inquiry Into 'Inside Job'

American construction magnate Jimmy Walter, called for an international 9/11 truth commission during a press conference held in London on Friday.

Walter is convinced 9/11 was an inside job and believes that a truth commission will never be established in the USA.

www.mathaba.net...?ob



posted on May, 26 2012 @ 02:28 PM
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I see this thread has gone completely off topic.....way to go people.....Oser's have opinions....Truthers have opinions....and they don't agree.....but what i do see is that there are more varying names of truthers in the forums than Oser's.....i can name the Osers in one fell swoop.....I will say ten......TEN lousy Oser's come in and try to tell people how it is.....yet you know what.....none of them have ever produced irrefutable evidence to support what the OS states.....now if they could...that would suppress the truth movement.....simple as.....but they can't .....they struggle....you know why....because the evidence does not support the OS.

I have been studying the 9/11 incident for years....and to this day it just gets worse....three steels buildings did not collapse on that day from fires and impacts.....3000 people did not lose their lives because of 19 hijackers who had minimal flight training in cesnas........Not 757 aircraft.

when some says to a Oser ..."show me where fires have destroyed a steel structure so badly that it suffers GLOBAL collapse at fall rates approaching freefall"

did i once ever say faster that freefall....and please show me how many truthers have actually said FASTER THAN FREEFALL......lies lies lies....and playing on words.

when a truther says to a Oser......That building 7 fell in it's own footprint.....has a Oser ever proved otherwise......geuss what......NOT ONE OF YOU.

When a truther says never has fires caused global damage in a steel structure to such severity that a 47 story buildings core would suffer damage equally to all columns to cause such a collapse......guess what....not a SINGLE Oser has been able to prove fires could do it.....Surprised......I am not......I am a structural engineer.....and guess what....i would never ever even attempt to try and prove that fires alone could cause such a failure in a steel structure.

I have been working on a simulation....but no matter what It all fails.....i am not sure wether it is the limitations of the physic engines in the software .....but even using the same software that nist has used it fails....now when you look at simulations out there......not one....none....nada....zero....zilch .....have shown the structures in their true form.......the one where the planes fuel is taken into account does not show the proper arrangements of the core columns.......in the twin towers....so therefore it can only be regarded as a visual representation and not accurate in any way shape or form.....So for all you Oser's........until you show some irrefutable proof......your cause is lost.

so for you
Alfie
six sigma
trickofshade
exponent
vipertech
varemia
gen
plb
thedman

why not put up.....show me please......once.....where a steel building has suffered a complete.....listen again COMPLETE global failure due to fires alone......yes ....building 7 apparently suffer some collateral damage.....but even that was not enough to cause....listen again......GLOBAL collapse.......do any one of you know the difference.

we are not taking about a partial failure of a structure where some floors gave way..we are talking about a collapse to ground level mound of rubble...pulverized reinforced concrete slabs......buildings not tumbling or toppling down......but straight down collapse.....through path of most resistance.....complete core column failures.

You know what....i don't know why i am bothering for you to provide this...as i already know.....NOT one of you will be able to do it.

you know how i know........because it has not occurred...not once.....never.....ever......fires do not cause global collapse in steel structures......

now i bet someone will come in and show a building from the early 1900s after the san fran quake whare a fire did do damage to a 2 story open wharehouse.....that would be interesting....or they will come in and show a partialy collapsed madrid tower building......after a 26hr burn time.......that will be another interesting tactic....but let me also add......the flloors where the steel could only be weakened by fire would be above the fire line...as.....i don't care what side of the fence your on....heat rises.....so in the case of the towers.....everything below the 82nd floor would be at still be at strength....just as in building seven below the sixth floor.....but i am sure that we can ignore thermal dynamics......as on 911....physics....thermal dynamics....resistance.....steel.....gravity....and all other physical limitations that day left the buildings.

now i also have in a thread recently where it shows as evidence in a bag.....get this.....A plastic box cutter....really now......a plastic boxer cutter......the weapon of choice apparently used by the perps.....Sorry i have to laugh here.....and the Oser's what......actually think this is the case.



edit on 023131p://f49Saturday by plube because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 26 2012 @ 02:44 PM
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* * * * * * * * * * LAST CALL * * * * * * * * * *

This will be the third moderator warning in this thread to stay on topic, to stop the name-calling and personal garbage, and to focus on the TOPIC........ "WTC7, the smoking gun that just will not go away until the traiters are rounded up".

Please stay on topic. Please stop the name-calling. "Shill" is name-calling.

Can it be said any plainer than that? Enjoy the debate/discussion.

Be civil. It's the best of what we are.



posted on May, 26 2012 @ 03:01 PM
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reply to post by argentus
 


Any chance you could correct the spelling error in the title, 'traiters'?

Thanks



posted on May, 26 2012 @ 03:06 PM
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reply to post by MI5edtoDeath
 


Done.



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