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WTC7, the smoking gun that just will not go away until the traitors are rounded up

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posted on May, 26 2012 @ 07:20 AM
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Originally posted by TrickoftheShade
Amid all the discussion of paid "shills" wasting Truth researchers' time, I'm surprised nobody takes the obvious route and simply stops responding to them.
...
I think it might be that Truthers realise that if they weren't kept busy engaging with debunkers they might actually have to go out and do something concrete about their beliefs. And I imagine that's terrifying.

Agreed. I go months without posting and abandoned some discussion forums entirely. Whenever a group of truthers are left without opposition they tend to fracture along ideological lines, or discussion dies entirely.

Reddit's 911 truth group is a great example of this. I've spotted Varemia posting there but they all collectively downvote any possible debate. It then just functions as an echo chamber where article after article rehashing the same old points is posted ten times a day.

No progress is ever made. I recently found a post of mine from 2007 discussing the collapse of WTC7. It's embarassing that I knew more about that building 5 years ago than modern truthers can manage. Hell, we still see 'faster than freefall'.

Face it truthers, you need us, otherwise you'd have nothing to talk about! Now, back to the amazing 24C weather!




posted on May, 26 2012 @ 07:29 AM
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Originally posted by ANOK

So what makes you think there was any air pressure in the first place, when the whole building was blowing outwards?

All that air pressure went down shafts and picked one or two vents to escape from?

One thing you have to understand, that you all keep pretending didn't happen, is floors were being pulverized as the building collapsed, they did not pancake down on each other. If they did then the collapse would not have been complete, and there would be a stack of floors in the footprint.

The air could not have been compressed when the floors and everything else was being blown outwards...


Now that's a unique situation in which everything is being blown outward ....except air. You need a refund for your physics education....you got cheated.


Originally posted by ANOK
You'll have to work harder than that to get anyone to buy that story mate.


I totally agree, but it is applied in the wrong direction... You keep proving over and over again that you don't know the first thing about simple physics... It's quite obvious why you're a "truther" truther.....
edit on 26-5-2012 by Reheat because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 26 2012 @ 08:02 AM
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Originally posted by thedman
reply to post by psyop911
 



all i see is smoke, not fire(s).


One of the most idiotic statements ever......

WHAT IS PRODUCING ALL THAT SMOKE!

Or you havent been able to figure it out yet........




Stupid statements are the reserved specialty of OS'ers; fact.


That is not a smoke cloud but pulverized concrete from WTC1 and 2 caught in a wind shear drawn by a corridor of sky scrapers.



posted on May, 26 2012 @ 08:05 AM
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Originally posted by exponent

Originally posted by TrickoftheShade
Amid all the discussion of paid "shills" wasting Truth researchers' time, I'm surprised nobody takes the obvious route and simply stops responding to them.
...
I think it might be that Truthers realise that if they weren't kept busy engaging with debunkers they might actually have to go out and do something concrete about their beliefs. And I imagine that's terrifying.

Agreed. I go months without posting and abandoned some discussion forums entirely. Whenever a group of truthers are left without opposition they tend to fracture along ideological lines, or discussion dies entirely.

Reddit's 911 truth group is a great example of this. I've spotted Varemia posting there but they all collectively downvote any possible debate. It then just functions as an echo chamber where article after article rehashing the same old points is posted ten times a day.

No progress is ever made. I recently found a post of mine from 2007 discussing the collapse of WTC7. It's embarassing that I knew more about that building 5 years ago than modern truthers can manage. Hell, we still see 'faster than freefall'.

Face it truthers, you need us, otherwise you'd have nothing to talk about! Now, back to the amazing 24C weather!



So your argument is that OS'ers are a necessity for the Truth Movement. You are in fact the crucible in which the truth is scrutinsed.

That is great. In a way inside every gullible OS'er is a truthful person waiting to get out.



posted on May, 26 2012 @ 08:08 AM
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Originally posted by MI5edtoDeath
So your argument is that OS'ers are a necessity for the Truth Movement. You are in fact the crucible in which the truth is scrutinsed.

Oh no, not at all. There's no real scrutinising of truth. I'm saying that debunkers are what makes the 'Movement' part. Without debunkers then the truth movement exists to repost theories from 2001-2006 over and over. I really don't want this to be offensive either but I don't think there's any way I can say that politely.


That is great. In a way inside every gullible OS'er is a truthful person waiting to get out.

Be careful with your words, 'truthful' implies lying. That would not be a good thing to be implying.



posted on May, 26 2012 @ 08:12 AM
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Originally posted by exponent

It then just functions as an echo chamber where article after article rehashing the same old points is posted ten times a day.

No progress is ever made.


The intention is not to progress, but to provide support for a worldview that bolsters certain prejudices that the participants hold and that I guess they find pleasurable and cathartic. 9/11 Truth in particular also envisages a world where activism and changing anything are impossible, so sitting at your computer and arguing becomes an act of revolution and I suppose by extension exciting.

Any real examination of the evidence leads one to the conclusion that the vast majority of Truther notions are false, so real discourse is not desirable.



posted on May, 26 2012 @ 08:13 AM
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Originally posted by GenRadek
What explosions in WTC7? I do not recall explosions in WTC7. I do recall damage and fires causing a slow collapse which caused a bulge to form, hence the use of the transit to monitor the creep. I've never heard of people putting a transit on a building rigged for demo.


You know full well that Barry Jennings confirmed explosions! That is just one report of many. As mentioned, we all know that fires alone do not bring down steel framed buildings, even if you and NIST like to fantasize that they do! It just proves you've got nothing if you're clinging onto fires!

As for the transit being used, you have trouble reading, have you tried getting some reading glasses?!
I have already said previously that firemen were not to know the building was rigged, so I repeat myself again due to your incompetence, firemen had no foreknowledge of the WTC7 controlled demolition, so your argument is a weak one.



Who said I was crying? I am tired of dealing with children acting like trolls in a serious discussion.I have yet see something of substance from you.


Anyone that threatens to call the mods for help because they are losing an argument due to lack of substance is a serious cry baby! That illustrates that you cannot fight your own battles and stand on your own two feet without someone to help you! It's very needy behaviour! I've debunked you a hundred times over, we all have, and you keep spouting the same weak arguments time and time again! You have absolutely nothing radek! You have an ego though calling yourself 'general'!

If you want to call me a child and a troll I'm not going to going crying to the mods like you would, I can take it, you only use those terms because you are a damage limitation enthusiast that has nothing to back up your weak arguments! If you're tired of dealing with 'truthers' then why do you spend so much time on this forum? I mean it's not like you have anything of value to add to any thread! Seems like you either have far too much time on your hands, or cannot get any other job.




Really? I thought according to truthers they did because they made the order to blow it up according to Larry.


So are you admitting that it was a controlled demolition with this statement?


No that is taken from the fire commanders on scene and Chief Hayden. Why would he lie about that? Unless the firefighters did know it was going to be blown up.


Strange it was not in the NIST report, seems like a very crucial piece of info to leave out don't you?!


SO you do not see that big black line running down the side? Might need to get your eyes checked.


I saw a smokey black line, like I say, please provide a picture without smoke, otherwise you are just guessing at what it is. Plus, so many 9/11 OS pictures have been photoshopped, videos edited etc, I would not trust half of what they pass off as 'evidence'. Also, so many supposed accounts by firemen that are not in the official reports, anyone can make up an account! We know fire alone did not bring this building down, we know there were explosions, so I'm going to go with real eye witness accounts, physics, and logic on this one, not some damage limitation enthusiast on some dubious website.


Ah so you want me to do all your legwork. Sorry buddy, but its been posted countless times before. Use the ATS search button. It is all there. I'm not going to repost things only to have it all ignored.


You have nothing to post, I've done enough research on this to know what really happened that day... Read this and debunk it step by step, if you fail to debunk this next passage of info, which you wont, then I'll not be replying to you again because you have nothing to add to the 9/11 research other than disinfo.....


NIST (Page 39) say only fires brought WTC7 down, and debris from the collapsing tower's had nothing to do with the WTC7 collapse, yep, NIST said that!

They said debris from the tower's collapsing started the fires, but they were burning BEFORE the towers collapsed.

Barry Jennings (RIP) experienced explosions BEFORE the towers collapsed, so please tell me how the debris supposedly started the fires if there were explosions & fires in WTC7 BEFORE the tower collapsed?!

We know that no steel framed building had ever collapsed from fires alone before, even though NIST want us to believe that WTC7 came down from fires alone???

We have witnesses saying explosions went off inside WTC7 before the towers collapsed, and we have a freefall, symmetrical collapse, and further explosions heard, plus siesmic recordings prior to WTC7 collapsing.

So everything points to explosives/controlled demolition. There cannot be any other alternative! Please do prove me wrong if you have any more info to add!



posted on May, 26 2012 @ 08:15 AM
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Originally posted by MI5edtoDeath



So your argument is that OS'ers are a necessity for the Truth Movement. You are in fact the crucible in which the truth is scrutinsed.

That is great. In a way inside every gullible OS'er is a truthful person waiting to get out.


Though it makes it unlikely that anyone is paying to maintain a debate they apparently want silenced, doesn't it?



posted on May, 26 2012 @ 08:17 AM
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Originally posted by 4hero
As mentioned, we all know that fires alone do not bring down steel framed buildings, even if you and NIST like to fantasize that they do! It just proves you've got nothing if you're clinging onto fires!

I hear this said a lot. However, isn't it true that they fireproof the steel in these buildings to prevent fire damaging it?

Also isn't it true that groups like the Council on Tall Buildings approved the NIST report? Would they really do that if the flaw was as obvious as you say?



posted on May, 26 2012 @ 08:32 AM
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reply to post by exponent
 





Also isn't it true that groups like the Council on Tall Buildings approved the NIST report? Would they really do that if the flaw was as obvious as you say?


The white house also approved their report. Lol

It's not like they have something to hide..
edit on 26-5-2012 by maxella1 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 26 2012 @ 08:43 AM
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Originally posted by maxella1
The white house also approved their report. Lol

Right but CTBUH is actually a professional organisation. I don't think they have any political connection I'm aware of. My point is that if their report is as crazily out of this world as 4hero and others seem to think, why are these professional groups accepting it? I'm pretty sure I read even the ASCE said something?

It doesn't make sense to me how both could be true.



posted on May, 26 2012 @ 09:10 AM
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Originally posted by TrickoftheShade

Originally posted by MI5edtoDeath



So your argument is that OS'ers are a necessity for the Truth Movement. You are in fact the crucible in which the truth is scrutinsed.

That is great. In a way inside every gullible OS'er is a truthful person waiting to get out.


Though it makes it unlikely that anyone is paying to maintain a debate they apparently want silenced, doesn't it?


On the contrary, silencing too many people draws attention.

Most police states usually go with disinfo techniques such as associating targets with lunacy. They will often use a shill to join a target group until he is identified as part of the group. He will then do and say bizarre things which will be used to discredit the movement.

Another tactic is to create factions that fight against each other and put off neutrals.

Finally, TPTB create a market place situation were many disparate and lunatic fringe ideas are propagated so that the truth becomes the needle in the haystack of garbage.
edit on 26-5-2012 by MI5edtoDeath because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 26 2012 @ 09:12 AM
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Originally posted by thedman
reply to post by psyop911
 



all i see is smoke, not fire(s).


One of the most idiotic statements ever......

WHAT IS PRODUCING ALL THAT SMOKE!

Or you havent been able to figure it out yet........
Sure buddy,,,can you prove fire can pulverize steel,concrete and glass. The word of the day is "pulverize",,not weaken or burn. Now be a good girl and run along...



posted on May, 26 2012 @ 09:19 AM
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Originally posted by MI5edtoDeath


On the contrary, silencing too many people draws attention.

Most police states usually go with disinfo techniques such as associating targets with lunacy. They will often use a shill to join a target group until he is identified as part of the group. He will then do and say bizarre things which will be used to discredit the movement.

Another tactic is to create factions that fight against each other and put off neutrals.

Finally, TPTB create a market place situation were many disparate and lunatic fringe ideas are propagated so that the truth becomes the needle in the haystack of garbage.
edit on 26-5-2012 by MI5edtoDeath because: (no reason given)


Except none of those describes people who come to a web forum and disagree with Truthers. People you describe as being paid to do so.

You evidently think that they maintain and enhance the debate but also that they are paid to do so. This makes very little sense.

If you think they/we are there to obfuscate and waste your time - which could presumably be better used in discussion with other Truthers or something - then why do you constantly answer? You are falling into a trap that you know is there. Which as I said is kind of the definition of wilfull stupidity.



posted on May, 26 2012 @ 09:19 AM
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Originally posted by exponent

Originally posted by TrickoftheShade
Amid all the discussion of paid "shills" wasting Truth researchers' time, I'm surprised nobody takes the obvious route and simply stops responding to them.
...
I think it might be that Truthers realise that if they weren't kept busy engaging with debunkers they might actually have to go out and do something concrete about their beliefs. And I imagine that's terrifying.

Agreed. I go months without posting and abandoned some discussion forums entirely. Whenever a group of truthers are left without opposition they tend to fracture along ideological lines, or discussion dies entirely.

Reddit's 911 truth group is a great example of this. I've spotted Varemia posting there but they all collectively downvote any possible debate. It then just functions as an echo chamber where article after article rehashing the same old points is posted ten times a day.

No progress is ever made. I recently found a post of mine from 2007 discussing the collapse of WTC7. It's embarassing that I knew more about that building 5 years ago than modern truthers can manage. Hell, we still see 'faster than freefall'.

Face it truthers, you need us, otherwise you'd have nothing to talk about! Now, back to the amazing 24C weather!


And what about you'all Paid-OSers?
"they tend to fracture along ideological lines, or miraculously continue trolling without ever geeting warned or banned"

Which one's is more pathetic?



posted on May, 26 2012 @ 09:24 AM
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The odd thing also is that I do not see threads full of Truthers earnestly discussing issues surrounding 9/11. If a thread opens up that doesn't attarct debunkers it quickly dies, usually after a few posters comsplining that no debunkers have shown up.

Almost 100 per cent of Truthers' time seems to be spent wasting their time engaging with people they think are being paid to waste their time.

Madness.



posted on May, 26 2012 @ 09:27 AM
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Originally posted by GiodanoBruno
And what about you'all Paid-OSers?

I'm not a 'Paid OSer'. I haven't even posted here in a year, so I would not be doing a great job if I was! I'm pretty sure a mod posted that this is bannable in either this thread or another large one. I'm not even an American.


"they tend to fracture along ideological lines, or miraculously continue trolling without ever geeting warned or banned"

Which one's is more pathetic?

It doesn't even make sense.



posted on May, 26 2012 @ 09:29 AM
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Originally posted by GiodanoBruno


And what about you'all Paid-OSers?


So you admit that you're spending your time discussing stuff with people you think are paid to waste your time. I'd say that was pathetic.



posted on May, 26 2012 @ 09:35 AM
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Originally posted by TrickoftheShade
So you admit that you're spending your time discussing stuff with people you think are paid to waste your time. I'd say that was pathetic.

As far as I know, literally the first thing he's ever said to me is accusing me of being paid-off. I have absolutely no clue why. I literally am posting while the sun is too hot to spend more than 15 mins outside. When it gets cooler I am off and might not post again for 6 months haha.



posted on May, 26 2012 @ 09:38 AM
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reply to post by exponent
 


It's part of the fun. If you assume you're important enough and your ideas are dangerous enough for the government to pay people to suppress you by, um, discussing them with you, then it makes sitting in front of your computer and doing nothing seem even more valid and exciting.



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