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Arpaio set to crack 'birther' coconut

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posted on May, 23 2012 @ 07:05 PM
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Originally posted by KonquestAbySS


You make a good point I remember when I joined the Corps I had to show proof of my BC in order for me to serve my country...I am sure you did 2


I'm sorry, where is the good point here that they made? Unless it's a good (and moot) point? The President DID open his Birth Certificate to everyone.

Here's the chronology of events, lest we forget:

Barak Obama gets elected to President Obama.
There is outrage, but it is small and measured.
President Obama is inaugurated.
Small groups claim he is not a citizen.
The authorities say he is, and thats just plain ridiculous.
Small groups claim he is not a citizen.
The Hawaii Vital Records department head assures us he is and they have a valid record of it.
Small groups claim he is not a citizen and wont believe it until they see a Birth Certificate with a raised seal.
President Obama produces his Birth Certificate WITH the aforementioned raised seal from the Hawaii Vital Records department.
Small groups claim he is not a citizen because it is a forgery.


So, where precisely is this good point that was made?

Furthermore, I spent 20 years in the Corps., had to show my Birth Certificate, had to go through the exams and the Health procedures, and no one questioned it.

And further yet, where were all the requisite Birth Certificate investigation posse's for the last (oh lets be conservative here) 40 Presidents?

So again I ask, where precisely is this good point that was made? It sounds to me like sensationalism to a poorly thought out "jumping on a bandwagon" that was also poorly researched....you know, the one where all of the document specialists (who moonlight as Walmart clerks during the day) come out of the woodwork.




posted on May, 23 2012 @ 07:09 PM
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reply to post by alphabetaone
 





Here's the chronology of events, lest we forget: Barak Obama gets elected to President Obama. There is outrage, but it is small and measured. President Obama is inaugurated. Small groups claim he is not a citizen. The authorities say he is, and thats just plain ridiculous. Small groups claim he is not a citizen. The Hawaii Vital Records department head assures us he is and they have a valid record of it. Small groups claim he is not a citizen and wont believe it until they see a Birth Certificate with a raised seal. President Obama produces his Birth Certificate WITH the aforementioned raised seal from the Hawaii Vital Records department. Small groups claim he is not a citizen because it is a forgery.

^^^
And you got this from where?

The good point is why must someone beat around bushes if one has to show eligibility to serve ones country...I didn't make it difficult for my recruiter, its not like he had to come to my house and investigate for my BC....




And further yet, where were all the requisite Birth Certificate investigation posse's for the last (oh lets be conservative here) 40 Presidents?


Well you were the one that was in the corps for 20 years which makes you older then I am. I am sure if you had any doubts about the eligibility of the President you were serving under you would be asking the same thing...
edit on 23-5-2012 by KonquestAbySS because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 07:14 PM
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reply to post by KonquestAbySS
 


I got this from memory of how it happened.

And you dodged all the important questions, like where is the good point that was made? Where was this posse for the previous Presidents?

Why would President Obama think he would have had to do so if he already believed himself to be an established citizen? I'm certain his mindset was one of I AM a citizen, and like the Presidents before me who had no such lynch mob on them about citizenry, nor should I feel lynched.

He wasnt hiding or NOT hiding any more than any other President.


P.S. I dont support President Obama as a candidate nor did I want him in 2008.



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 07:19 PM
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Originally posted by KonquestAbySS

Well you were the one that was in the corps for 20 years which makes you older then I am. I am sure if you had any doubts about the eligibility of the President you were serving under you would be asking the same thing...
edit on 23-5-2012 by KonquestAbySS because: (no reason given)


Correct.

with that said, I already know in advance the checks and balances by which one must find themselves part and parcel to, for him to have gotten to the position he was in prior to attaining the Presidency....so I had no reason on EARTH to question it.

With the additional years under my belt it also gives me a whole lot of perspective, that of knowing Joey Bagodonuts can't walk through our borders, sit in the Oval office and proclaim "Here I am".



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 07:20 PM
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reply to post by alphabetaone
 





And you dodged all the important questions, like where is the good point that was made? Where was this posse for the previous Presidents?


How do you know that there wasn't?. I know what you are trying to do. Your not going to fool me buddy...Hahaha waiting for me to say something that causes a race issue...Sneaky Sneaky....You must spend a lot of time trying to defend for your boy.



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 07:20 PM
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Originally posted by Blackmarketeer
No one can legally obtain a copy of your certified BC from a vital records office, outside of immediate family. For sheriff Joe to send his deputy to the Hawaii Dept. of Health to just ask for it, shows their clear lack of understanding of the law. Pretty embarrassing, considering they're supposed to be law enforcement officials.


HAWAII BIRTH CERTIFICATES
Hawaii Vital Records issues only certified copies of Hawaii birth certificates, which are typically acceptable for passport, social security, employment and personal identification purposes.

Who Can Order?
A certified copy of a Hawaii birth certificate is issued only to an applicant who has a direct and tangible interest in the record. The following persons are considered to have such an interest:

  • the registrant (the person whom the record is concerned with);
  • the registrant's spouse;
  • the registrant's parent(s);
  • a descendant of the registrant (e.g., a child or grandchild);
  • a person having a common ancestor with the registrant (e.g., a sibling, grandparent, aunt/uncle, or cousin);
  • a legal guardian of the registrant;
  • a person or agency acting on behalf of the registrant;
  • a personal representative of the registrant's estate;
  • a person whose right to obtain a copy of the record is established by an order of a court of competent jurisdiction; and
  • adoptive parents who have filed a petition for adoption and need to determine the death of one or more of the prospective adopted child's natural or legal parents


You forgot in the case with probable cause in a police investigation. The only problem is of course the legality of using probable cause outside your jurisdiction.



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 07:26 PM
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reply to post by KonquestAbySS
 


I guess you missed at the very end where I told you, unequivocally in this post, that I dont support him nor did I want him as President?

Quite honestly I hadn't even thought race was figuring into what (I assumed to be) was civil debate....I thought we were exchanging intellectual difference. I guess that was too much for you eh? When your logic failed, then I guess it was time for you to pull the only thing you had left? By claiming it was a racial issue?

If you go back to the post I just linked, I think you should see the part at the very end where I clearly state he isn't "my boy", I wrote in my vote.....it was for Skeptic Overlord



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 07:29 PM
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You can take his birth certificate apart layer by layer... The certificate he provided is a crappy made forgery. Anyone that thinks otherwise hasn't took the time to try and take it apart for themselves.. Has any of his ex-girlfriends, or childhood friends came forward in his defense. The guy is an enigma.. Where there's smoke there is fire. It shouldn't be so hard for him to put this to rest.
edit on 23-5-2012 by Auzzy because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 07:33 PM
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reply to post by alphabetaone
 





I guess you missed at the very end where I told you,


I saw, but I never said you were an Obama supporter to begin with. So I don't know why you randomly emphasized that you are not a supporter of Obama...



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 07:44 PM
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reply to post by KonquestAbySS
 


But you didn't have to show the entire country or even everyone in your branch of the armed services. You only had to show a select few people who would then verify that it is legitimate. This is the exact thing Obama had to do. He showed a few people whose job it was to verify its legitimacy. His birth certificate held up to their scrutiny. So why must he jump through more hoops than anyone else?



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 07:49 PM
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reply to post by Xcalibur254
 





But you didn't have to show the entire country or even everyone in your branch of the armed services.


I am not a national icon though, Obama is. Which makes him a representative of this country as a whole.



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 07:49 PM
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reply to post by juveous
 


Probable cause is not enough to get a document like that. To have the authority to request a personal document like that either requires the express permission of the registrant or a warrant or other court order. While Arpaio would be outside his jurisdiction it doesn't even matter. However, even if a law enforcement officer could get a document like that on probable cause, the man from the Cold Case Posse who was sent isn't a law enforcement officer. Arpaio has no hope of getting the birth certificate and he knows it. This is merely more posturing on his part to distract from his own legal troubles.



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 07:51 PM
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reply to post by KonquestAbySS
 


Once again I'll ask why Obama is forced to jump through more hoops than anyone else. Why was the vetting process good enough for every other president but not Obama?



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 07:54 PM
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At first, Crazy Joe was claiming that no taxpayer money was being used for this "official investigation" -- which sort of made you wonder how official it could be -- and now it has come out that he did spend some taxpayer money sending a real deputy along with his amateur G-men.

However, at the very same time, the Arizona Secretary of State was corresponding with the Hawaii Attorney-General for verification of the Obama birth certificate, and today (May 23) announced that he had been sent satisfactory certification - in the form of an official report by the Director of the Hawaiian Dept of Health - that Obama's record had been checked again and showed positively that Obama was born in Hawaii in 1961. This settles the matter for the Arizona Secretary of State so it appears that Crazy Joe is investigating something that is settled as regards the relevant state authorities.



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 07:59 PM
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reply to post by Xcalibur254
 





Once again I'll ask why Obama is forced to jump through more hoops than anyone else. Why was the vetting process good enough for every other president but not Obama?


Because maybe he was the only President who drastically had his name changed from Barry Soetoro to Barack Obama. Can you find any other Presidents who drastically made a name change? If anything I would of thought Millard Fillmore would of changed his name....
edit on 23-5-2012 by KonquestAbySS because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 08:30 PM
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Originally posted by juveous
Makes sense to me.


Well then you have a twisted way of thinking. Arpaio already believes the birth certificate is fraudulent, this is what he concluded from his investigation. He doesn't believe Hawaiian authorities on this matter because he already thinks they're lying, and yet he sends his investigators to Hawaii to ask these very same authorities to see the birth certificate, after concluding all this? It's another publicity stunt.


What authority are you refering to?


I'm refering to the authority where a private investigative team can demand the presidents private documents, or any ones for that matter. My records are held by my county, are you saying that private posse has the authority to access my private records willynelly? You think a sheriff has this authority?


What they expect to find is more forgery, i would say it would much harder for them to find a false negative with the physical BC,


Let's just say hypothetically they do get access, hw are they going to find more forgery on the hard copy? Neither of them have the credentials to verify the authenticity of Hawaiian birth certificates, so? They conclude, once again, it a forgery, Hawaiian officials confirm it's authentic? Then what?

I still don't see how you can rationalize the posse going over there. They went through this entire investigation which lasted 6 months? As Arpaio claimed. They concluded without doubt that Obama's birth certificate was fraudulent from this investigation, it is evident that the posse believes there is a cover up involving Hawaiian officials, and yet they still go to Hawaii to demand Hawaiian officials cooperate with them and release the records. If there is a cover up as they believe, why would they bother making empty demands?



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 08:34 PM
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Originally posted by juveous
Funny, i don't even consider this a birther issue,


of course you don't. Most birthers don't wish to be referred to as birthers, they wish to have their complaints taken seriously. They consist mostly of fringe conservatives, disgruntled blue dog dems, and conspiracy theorists, folks who have alot of bones to pick with Obama outside this birther issue.



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 08:41 PM
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reply to post by KonquestAbySS
 


Gerald Ford was born with the name Leslie Lynch King Jr. He then changed his name to Gerald Rudolph Ford Jr. after his stepfather. This was the first hit I came up with regarding presidents who have changed their names so there could be others.
edit on 5/23/2012 by Xcalibur254 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 08:50 PM
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Originally posted by KonquestAbySS

Because maybe he was the only President who drastically had his name changed from Barry Soetoro to Barack Obama.


well he would be, wouldn't he....since he's the only president ever to be named Barrack Obama...it sort of stands to reason....




Can you find any other Presidents who drastically made a name change?


dunno about Presidents - but changing ones name is a perfectly legal thing for anyone in the US to do, so why is it that anyone would find it suspicious in the first place?

plus of course he didn't change his name at all. If his name was ever officially changed to Barry Soetoro then it was while his mother was married to Lolo Soetoro, and it was done by her (or both if he was adopted by his step-dad I guess), and it's never actually been established that "Barry Soetoro" was anything other than a name he was known by...which is also common and legal, and perfectly understandable in the 1960's.

so to summarise my understanding of your position:

1/ you think it suspicious that his name was changed, although you do not know that his name was actually changed, that such a change would be legal and is still common practice the world over, and that if it wasn't actually changed then being known by another name is also not actually legal nor uncommon, and seems quite normal to many for a remarried family in the 1960's, when he was pre-pubescent.

2/ this was all done in order to enable him to be falsely elected as POTUS 40 years later; and

3/ you think that anyone who finds that reasoning lacking in credibility is an "obamabot" or some similar term.

Is that a fair summation of your position?



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 08:54 PM
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reply to post by Southern Guardian
 


The reason is because it does more damage to deny access to records then good. I already said it would be hard to find false negatives if they examined the physical copy, but the point is if they are authorized to as you put. I doubt they will negotiate access with the way they are handling it. The point is, the administration should release as much as they can to be verified, this is just my opinion. Allow it in spite of the way the system is put in place.



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