America Is Terminal. How Long Does It Have Left?

Originally posted by CynicalWabbit
reply to post by Germanicus

 

Well we fought off Japan ourselves. When your hero American General took charge of our soldiers he left them to die. McCarther was a coward. Dugout Doug. We didnt need your navy because the Japanese decided invasion of our mighty continent was impossible.

Apparently you don't read history because the US Navy along with some Australian ships forced the Japanese Carrier fleet to turn back from an invasion of Port Moresby in May, 1942. If not for the Battle of the Coral Sea the Japanese would have been on you're doorstep.

No your wrong read some history, the Battle for Australia lasted from 1942 to 1943. America didn't begin sending reinforcements to Australia until late 1942, and which by that time the threat was almost passed.
The Japanese were already on Australias doorstep in 1942 you idiot, but the Aussies outnumbered by 25 to 1 managed to defeat the Japanese invading armies in New Guinea.
Americas role in the Battle for Australia was trivial to say the least.

FYI MacArthur was a coward general, after he lost ALL his troops in the Phillipines he retreated to Australia. He called the Aussie soldiers cowards and the American soldiers heroes.
When in fact in Buna and Gona, the Americans cowered in the bush as the Australians charged the Japanese. The Japanese viewed the Americans as a cowardly enemy, but saw the Aussie army as a worthy opponent. In fact the Japanese viewed the Aussies with so much respect there are even cases where they respectfully buried them in marked graves as a sign of respect.
But even though the Aussies did most of the fighting in Buna and Gona, guess what MacArthur called it? He claimed the Battles of Buna and Gona were "Great American Victories", when in fact history tells us the Americans cowered as the Australians charged...

For those that believe the end is near for America: What would you have me do? As an American citizen, should I try to prepare with seeds and food and water and hunker down and ride it out? Or should I try to leave the country, perhaps to one of these, "BRIC" countries to try and survive? What if I can't do that before SHTF? What should I do? Any recommendations?

Originally posted by Zippidee
reply to post by Germanicus

 

The invasion won't be militarily at the start....you will be paying your sewage bill to the fortune cookie enterprise buddy. Oh, and you fended off Japan....whoopy ding dong!....do it now big guy! Stop and think what your saying. I know the USA has problems but its core people (those not in power) are the ones who want it differenty and if we succeed, whether it be from blood or breath, I can venture to say that you will want back in. I suppose you can align with the BRICS, I see the advantages but remember where Russia was a measely decade ago and if the USA hadn't sold out its middle class long ago, China would still be using flint so to speak!

No your wrong Australia has ALWAYS sided with the "Great Maritime Powers" of each certain time. During the 19th and early 20th centuries Australia sided with Britain as it was the great maritime power of that time. After WW2 Australia sided with America since it was the great maritime power. Why would this matter you ask?
Australia is dependent on the maritime shipping lanes, whoever owns them will have Australia for an ally. Now that American influence in the shipping lanes are fast declining and China, India, Russia, and Brazil take it over Australia is now looking towards BRICS for allies.

Originally posted by GrimReaper86
For those that believe the end is near for America: What would you have me do? As an American citizen, should I try to prepare with seeds and food and water and hunker down and ride it out? Or should I try to leave the country, perhaps to one of these, "BRIC" countries to try and survive? What if I can't do that before SHTF? What should I do? Any recommendations?

I would "hunker" down as you call it. America will collapse but it will rise again someday. I don't suggest moving to a BRICS nation as they probably would think Americans moving there are spies,etc.

Last time I check BRIC meeting, they still choose to have USD as main currency, I'm bit frustrated but now I understand why. Now with Iran having its own oil bourse I think we might see EUR or Gold/Dinar or Yuan as World Currency. I'm betting on Gold/Dinar but EUR also have bright future (if they change PIIGS to PIIS and settle the debt load!). Yuan as World Currency, hmm probable too.
All in all - I have hard time pinpoint the new World Currency, but its surely not USD anymore

Where is America in this story ? Its will be the main star when I yell "Short USD!", and I think rebuild will be fast!

Socialism might not be on the menu, but the "konstitushen" will be torn.
United States of America -> States of America, get the idea ?
I dont know if we will get the United back, its too far to know, for now, enjoy while you can, before the market punish you. I cant wait to trade Amerigo or is it Disney money ?. We even have made joke about the Feds printing this.

Elect Ron Paul for it is last chance you have and even that I doubt recovery will be smooth.

Here a prediction from 2009

What would happen in a USD collapse?

• The US and Western economies will all face insolvency simultaneously, with the US first in line.
  
• The entire Western industrial/consumer/credit economy will fall apart so fast it will make your head spin. The supply chain will stop and stores will empty in less than 3 days.
  
• The USD will fall over 50% in one week’s time, till it temporarily stabilizes before its final last gasp. Remember the Lehman panic over those several weeks? You have seen nothing yet.
  
• Worldwide currency panic will set in paralyzing what’s left of the world economy, that means the ‘emerging markets’ stop dead too.
  
• China has a revolution, or goes into military mode, which is worse. (I doubt)
  
• A one world currency will be demanded and implemented, and it better be fast too since the cities only have 3 days food on average…(by the way I know for a fact that a one world currency can be implemented electronically and turned on in one hour, if they wanted!)
  

Originally posted by boeserwolf
It's not just the USA, it's the whole capitalist system that's collapsing. Capitalism depends on "slaves" to function.

Capitalism is the one system that should not depend on slaves or "slaves". Human beings are capitalists, best to accept it. My observation is that all living creatures are capitalist and not even speaking in political terms.

It commodifies anything and everything while externalizing all costs of resource depletion, pollution and damages that you and I pay for and have to clean up. You cannot have endless growth on a finite planet. Ecosystems are collapsing. We are polluting and contaminating the whole world. Unless we get our act together and begin to live sustainably,

.

As opposed to some other ism polluting, contaminating etc.? Most of the useful items are renewable and abundant and we have not fully figured out how to implement into useful ways.

Mother Nature will have the last word.

A powerful voice does not equate to having the last word. If a valley in India is flooded and the inhabitants rebuild did she have the last word?

Please tell me where national socialism has worked if it is so great? Capitalism works great if the government would keep it's paws off of it!

Originally posted by Twilly
Please tell me where national socialism has worked if it is so great? Capitalism works great if the government would keep it's paws off of it!

To a certain degree, can I say China ?

Not long.

But it's been in the plans for awhile.

It's like exactly holding onto the hand of a dying person..............waiting for the end.

I pray there is an almighty and just creator and things are eventually set right.

Who knows?

Hell, for that matter, i would not know how to create a living creature who was not capitalist. At the same time i would build that creature to be kind, compassionate, considerate...not just to love himself, but to love all creatures of the Earth...land and sea.

Originally posted by Malcher
Hell, for that matter, i would not know how to create a living creature who was not capitalist. At the same time i would build that creature to be kind, compassionate, considerate...not just to love himself, but to love all creatures of the Earth...land and sea.

Lets just say - Ants

reply to post by Germanicus


India and China are strongly connected with the U.S. economy. I don't know about Russia or Brazil, but if the U.S. economy goes under it will become a domino effect. I really feel the amount of debt countries are facing around the world has come to a tipping point that is unmanageable.

We've been playing this game too long and it's time to throw in the pieces and start all over again. I'm sure when the majority of countries start facing economic calamity, we will see a world summit come together to devise a new world economic plan starting with a world wide debt forgiveness program.

We're all on this runaway train, once it crashes, governments around the world will have no other choice but to come together to devise a plan.

Originally posted by NullVoid

Originally posted by Malcher
Hell, for that matter, i would not know how to create a living creature who was not capitalist. At the same time i would build that creature to be kind, compassionate, considerate...not just to love himself, but to love all creatures of the Earth...land and sea.

Lets just say - Ants

It is possible but there are extenuating circumstances. For one, they are born into a colony, the colony can be very destructive and harmful to other creatures. Perhaps one could argue the colony is in actuality one singular unit.

Besides humans, and to a lesser extent, other animals show more variation in appearance and intelligence even amongst the same species.

I think in order for us to be like ants we would have to all look like each other and be of nearly exact similar intelligence otherwise it just is not possible.

Besides, from a young age humans have a desire to be noticed, to be recognized - "hey...look at me...look at me". I see nothing wrong with that at all and really is just showing that we are all different. IF...the human brain was transplanted with an ant brain i would say we can be like ants and yet we would still all look different so on that fact alone the reduced brain power would just lead to much worse.

I gotta laugh at this thread especially my go arounds with the op and saying "join with us comrade".

The decline of American began with the federal reserve in 1913 followed by more stupid in the 30's from Roosevelt then followed up by more progressive stupidity.

The downfall of this country is: Social Security.,medicare,medicaid billions of tax revenue lost billions more of wealth creation ie social engineering.

How long does America have left? when the care act goes full force and the national debit equals over 21 trillion within the next 4 years.

Stick a fork in us were done.

Or the cliff notes version:

reply to post by Germanicus


Stopped reading after "national debt". The OP is clueless on economic matters. The national Debt is nothing more than a banking fiction. Austerity is killing nations and propping up banks is slaughtering millions.

But the austerity fools just roll right along.

They got rid of the bank debts in Iceland and all is MUCH better. Greece knows. France knows. Those who worry about a debt and want austerity are pawns of the elite ... and fools.

I have read all the posts...and all the sides have goods and bad's...what everyone is missing...is, it is not Capitalism...or...Communism, or Imperialism...or, Islam...Christianity, or democracy...vs dictatorships...it is human greed...either a lust for money or control...it is the same...it is not America that has this disease...it is all of humanity...You can criticize America and it's capitalism all you want but, is yours any better...I laugh if you say it is...because you are fooling yourself.

To understand human nature is to understand the problem...we all believe our way is better...but it is with true and deep observation that reveals it is all and the same ...just with different names.

I am just about sick of the whole discussion...screw everyone...cause you don't have the answer, JUST AN OPINION!!!

reply to post by Germanicus

I think it died duing the Bush/Cheney administration, and that all the angst directed at Obama is simple disappointment that he wasn't really a modern American messiah.

The heart and soul, the very character and charm of the USA was ripped right out during the first decade of the 21st century given what the average American Joe was forced to participate in and support with misguided patriotism and sychophantic flag waving.

“Nationalism is our form of incest, is our idolatry, is our insanity. ''Patriotism'' is its cult. It should hardly be necessary to say, that by ''patriotism'' I mean that attitude which puts the own nation above humanity, above the principles of truth and justice; not the loving interest in one's own nation, which is the concern with the nation's spiritual as much as with its material welfare /never with its power over other nations. Just as love for one individual which excludes the love for others is not love, love for one's country which is not part of one's love for humanity is not love, but idolatrous worship.”

~ Erich Fromm (German born American social Philosopher and Psychoanalyst, 1900-1980)

Obama's mistake was that he didn't provide a vision and arrogantly and egoistically believed that within himself as a "black" President, all would be atoned for, which is absurd, arrogant and ridiculous.

Here's an interesting article which I think describes the disenfranchisement with Obama and what he failed to do, and say, post Bush/Cheney.

The Carterization of Barack Obama
www.esquire.com...

an excerpt

That was the choice that Barack Obama faced the moment he turned away from John Roberts and faced the country for the first time as its president. The actual problems were worse than he knew. (All of the available evidence indicates that the true dimensions of the economic meltdown that

occurred in the fall of 2008 were far worse than Obama and his administration even imagined.) But he had to know that the country had wounded itself, through fear and doubt, through lassitude and inattention, through an abandonment of its responsibilities to self-government. He had to know that without leaving those civic wounds open to the air, they would not heal but fester. He had to know that the country needed to externalize the wickedness and failure that it had tolerated within itself. He had to know that the country would have to be forced to do that, that it would resist, and that the political opposition would enforce that resistance with whatever strength it could muster. He had to know this because he never has been a fool.

He didn't do any of that. This is what he said when he turned away from Roberts and faced what was then an adoring crowd:

"This is the meaning of our liberty and our creed, why men and women and children of every race and every faith can join in celebration across this magnificent mall. And why a man whose father less than sixty years ago might not have been served at a local restaurant can now stand before you to take a most sacred oath."

There it was again. He was offering himself as absolution for the country while not demanding real penance from the country that had so offended against itself. (He talked about meeting challenges and about the sacrifices the country would have to make without being specific about who and what had made those challenges so daunting or those sacrifices so harsh.) In 1976, Jimmy Carter offered himself as absolution for the sin against democratic self-government that was the election (twice) of Richard Nixon. But, just as has been the case over the last three years, there was no penance demanded and, in 1980, with his campaign dying in a thousand places, Jimmy Carter got a look at how good and decent the American people could be when absolution is bestowed before penance is demanded.

Whether Barack Obama is reelected next fall depends mightily on how the country feels about having elected him in the first place. He is not Carter because there is no Reagan on the other side. He is Carter because there was in his election a feeling in the country that it had done something wrong to itself that the country didn't truly want to face. He is not Carter because his Desert One worked and Osama bin Laden is as dead as Saladin. He is Carter because the economy is stuck in the mud and there are forces seeking to keep it there for the political advantage they will gain. He is not Carter because Car-ter had OPEC. He is Carter because he has Goldman Sachs. So the parlor games begin, because it's easier to psychoanalyze a president than it is to plumb the depths of a country mired in self-loathing, seeking scapegoats for the turmoil in its own mind, and rotting from within from unexpiated sins.

Read more: www.esquire.com...

---------------------------------

America has been called "the indespensible nation", but where virtue may be defined as power restrained, the heart and soul of America was despensed with "shock and awe" in Iraq. Virtue was breached in that unneccessary and illegal war of agression, and it will never be the same.

They thought they could bend history itself to the will of an "elite" few, but now history, in the looming mirror of near 20/20 historical hindsight is clear, and the indictment of the USA, utterly devastating.

Bush/Cheney broke it and Obama can't fix it.

Then again, perhaps time can heal all wounds I don't know, but some things you just can't "mud over" or pretend didn't happen.

the only thing terminal about america is it's sociological independence, (or perceived superiority).

it will never die, it will simply evolve.

have faith my funny lyttel american brothers =)

Originally posted by Andronian
To understand human nature is to understand the problem...we all believe our way is better...but it is with true and deep observation that reveals it is all and the same ...just with different names.

I am just about sick of the whole discussion...screw everyone...cause you don't have the answer, JUST AN OPINION!!!

No it's not "all the same just with different names".

If there is one thing to learn from this global financial crisis then its which countries / political systems / methods are really working and which are not.
Hard times show who prevails.

That's socio-economic analysis, not OPINION.
Its sheer mathematics. Its Numbers... and the numbers don't give a # about ideology.

We're not done until we have expended all those nukes. If we can't have our way with the world... they just don't get it. If we can't have the world... NObody Can... LAUNCH!!!

Harvest time. Judgement Day. Yah yah, thanks a lot assholes. That'll teach 'em to F+++ with us. Like Hitler and Ceausescu before us, we believe in scorched earth. If the American people cannot rise and defeat the enemy then the whole of the US and the world doesn't deserve to breathe one more breath.

Cause we're assholes...


Question you got to ask yourselves... will America go quietly into that good night or go out with a defiant bang, taking the rest of the world with it?