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Survival Of The Fittest? When SHTF, Where Do We Fit In?? My Dilemma....

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posted on May, 23 2012 @ 05:56 AM
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This post is a combination of survival, trust, fear and the desire to become well again.

To start off, I am a married mother of two youngins, work 36 hrs a week 12 hour shifts of nonstop walking bending and stooping, I homeschool, organic garden, raise chickens, shoot guns and over all am preparing for a *prepper* scenario in which anything can happen. I am very active, but recently have been diagnosed as needing surgery.

After a *BUG OUT* training exercise of camping for a few days, I blew out my knee. I immediately called to speak to one of the best surgeons in the state because I had a gut feeling that I hurt it pretty badly. I was told I tore my meniscus and medial collateral ligament.....


Yep, surgery is scheduled in 2 days....IM SCARED! Knee arthroscopy is what its called. I'm scared beyond belief. I have had to file for FMLA and short term disability through my work.

I feel like if I do not get this surgery done, I may never walk normal again (I know thats dramatic) BUT......

I want to know who else has had this surgery and did it work for you? I was told I would be out of work for up to 8 weeks....That can't be right can it?

I really hope no SHTF while I am down and out...

As having a survivalist mentality I feel as though I have failed my children, failed myself and spouse....Will I regain my strength back or forever be disabled...That is my fear.

What would you do if the SHTF while you were injured? How would you survive? Yes, in a way I am lucky now to have this surgery done while able to.

If the world were in a state of chaos, how would we take care of the injured? Would we, or let survival of the fittest mentality take over? Would we lose our compassion for the injured or really try to help them? Would anyone help me in this state that I am in?




posted on May, 23 2012 @ 06:04 AM
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Hello. My father had this surgery at 63 years old. He was off his feet for ~4 weeks. After that he was walking and withing 4 months is now back to running as he has done almost daily since childhood. So, unless tshtf within the next couple of months, I believe you will be fine. Obviously, I have no idea how much damage you did in comparison to my father but he had messed up his knee pretty badly. Good luck.



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 06:10 AM
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I had something similar just as I started High school ( a while back, LOL)
torn ligaments with bone fragments

no scope back then, just an x ray
no surgery...
they totally immobalized my knee in hip to ankle casts for 6 months
then it took a while to come back after the atrophy
knock wood no trouble since


the GP thought that on a friday afternoon I might be faking an injury to get out of the weekend of fun I suppose

My mother ( a Vet) took the xrays to a real doctor..
who slammed that cast on immediatly before I was seriously crippled by the fragments' movement
which is my best advice which you are already following
GO TO a GOOD DOCTOR!
(and don't move through pain till you know what is causing it
just in case)

and best wishes

eta
Hey instead of feeling less than:
feel like you are teaching them ahead of time just how important the important things are

edit on 23-5-2012 by Danbones because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 06:29 AM
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Thanks for your kind words.


I really want to hear how people view the injured though. I mean if you were in a situation in which you saw an injured person with children, would you help them or blow them off? Would we make make shift hospitals? Would we expect doctors and nurses to volunteer their time?

My kids are learning really quick how to load the laundry and turn on the dryer, make small meals etc....they are young so, its definitely a chore. But say I needed help harvesting crops and collecting eggs....Would I be overrun or would someone have compassion?

What would we give to people for pain? Survival is an all around practice that few people think about often. We have to prepare for the worst case scenarios. The problems arise when pharmacies close and hospitals close. There would be so much pain and suffering all around us. Would we lose our humanity or rise to the occasion and help our fellow man?



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 09:33 AM
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I think you pose interesting questions
I have been studying wild herbs for food and medicine for years, and most areas have things growing there that will help as well or better then most pharma products.

It would be foolish to waste anyone who has essential skills.

One thing you don't hear of in most survival discussions is the power of love.
Blood is thicker then water as they say.

I am drawing on older sources myself, living and writtin, the depression, wars, disasters...gulags
There have been times when most things that we anticipate have already happened somewhere. I guess reading those accounts might provide some insite into what to expect.

eta
I have a nice stash of essential books

edit on 23-5-2012 by Danbones because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 10:44 AM
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reply to post by Starwise
 


My husband had this exact surgery performed 4 years ago. The doctor he had was not the greatest due to being out of country or poor training. There was still discomfort and pain so more scopes were done when he came stateside. It turned out they had done things wrong the first time and he required more scraping and micro-fractures to encourage cartilage growth. He still has pain but is survival ready.

There are foods, herbs, and salves that can help with the pain. Orange foods such as yams and squash, help with issues in the joints like arthritis. White willow bark is aspirin, and arnica salve is like using a muscle cream. Make sure you have two good braces if shtf one on and one packed in your bob in case you need to change it or it gets damaged.

In the event you need to use your survival skills just remember, you made it twice through 9 months of oddities and discomfort and the result of those 18 months is exactly what will keep you going.

Look into shark cartilage during healing(smells awful) and make sure you work on healing proper the first time so you do not need to revisit the doctor for anything but healthy check-ups. Best of luck to you.



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 10:51 AM
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ok that's it...when the crap hits the fan, i'm just going to cash it in...why?...living with the people that will be left is going to be one big cluster F of a life. half of them will be pychopaths, and the other half will be good people with twitchie trigger fingers, scared of their own shadow.



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 11:25 AM
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How would I treat the injured in an shtf situation? It is hard to say since it would depend on my relationship to them, my "situation" at the time, etc.... It would also depend on the extent of their injuries and their outlook for a full recovery. Someone with valuable skills should not be abandoned due to temporary injury. OTOH, a perfectly healthy "slacker" would be left to their own devices in a heart beat by me. We do need to accept that we cannot save everybody though and need to know that trying to would likely lead to our own deaths and the deaths of our friends/family. It is the old "full lifeboat" question. When do you stop letting people into your lifeboat?



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 11:41 AM
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This premise would entirely depend on what is going on in a given scenario.If there is high combat everywhere then you are lost until you can be moved without gun fire to what ever would be left of the medical profession.If you separate as many "bug outs" tend to be then you have chosen to isolate and possibly die from minor wounds,which your knee is not.If it's dod eat dog you will be toast.However,vets are trained to deal with war better than the average civilian.If bad people try to take a city they will be shown how many of us know how to shoot and tactically move against an opponent.Every hunter,sport shooter.and gun enthusiast out number anybody any where with better small arms,NOT including vets and military.If they don't hit us with aircraft,artillery,biological,chems or nukes.The invasion will be quite short lived.I know how to defeat a tank with simple items from the hardware store.
There aren't enough contractors who would be stupid enough to try this and the military wouldn't either.
So it is better to have and know many than play lone wolf.Shooting expertly will make you a valuable individual if you have the courage to stand up and fight.
Have much more faith in the people.The infoganda (I made up a word!)we hear only wants to divide and separate us when we should be together.When bullets start to fly this will be sorted out quickly.
Ultimately it is your choice.
I myself have COPD so I can't bug anywhere I will make up my lack of mobility with my rifle and other weapons as I am able.
edit on 23-5-2012 by cavtrooper7 because: finished my point



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 12:36 PM
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Originally posted by jimmyx
ok that's it...when the crap hits the fan, i'm just going to cash it in...why?...living with the people that will be left is going to be one big cluster F of a life. half of them will be pychopaths, and the other half will be good people with twitchie trigger fingers, scared of their own shadow.


You do have a point. Do we even know how many people would potentially be without their psych meds?? We know diabetics on insulin would have a horrible problem along with people on lots of pain killers.

When you truly start thinking deeply about all the potential *what ifs* it can either make you paranoid or ready to give up, or worse my fear is apathetic to others.

Love truly is a powerful thing.....We need more of it to try and stop the division that MSM is trying to force down on us!



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 12:43 PM
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Originally posted by Danbones
I had something similar just as I started High school ( a while back, LOL)
torn ligaments with bone fragments

no scope back then, just an x ray
no surgery...
they totally immobalized my knee in hip to ankle casts for 6 months
then it took a while to come back after the atrophy
knock wood no trouble since


the GP thought that on a friday afternoon I might be faking an injury to get out of the weekend of fun I suppose

My mother ( a Vet) took the xrays to a real doctor..
who slammed that cast on immediatly before I was seriously crippled by the fragments' movement
which is my best advice which you are already following
GO TO a GOOD DOCTOR!
(and don't move through pain till you know what is causing it
just in case)

and best wishes

eta
Hey instead of feeling less than:
feel like you are teaching them ahead of time just how important the important things are

edit on 23-5-2012 by Danbones because: (no reason given)


Wow in a cast for 6 mos, good thing thats over huh? Thanks for sharing, it actually helps me hearing other peoples stories



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 03:32 PM
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Originally posted by Danbones
I think you pose interesting questions
I have been studying wild herbs for food and medicine for years, and most areas have things growing there that will help as well or better then most pharma products.

It would be foolish to waste anyone who has essential skills.

One thing you don't hear of in most survival discussions is the power of love.
Blood is thicker then water as they say.

I am drawing on older sources myself, living and writtin, the depression, wars, disasters...gulags
There have been times when most things that we anticipate have already happened somewhere. I guess reading those accounts might provide some insite into what to expect.

eta
I have a nice stash of essential books

edit on 23-5-2012 by Danbones because: (no reason given)


Dan, thank you so much for that post. Truly a star infinitum, as it really nails so concisely a really important direction we all need to commit ourselves to under such circumstances. I think, at least I hope, people will naturally gravitate towards helping and pooling resources and skills. The reality is that awful things will happen, but the reality is also that good things will happen too, although under such stressors we may very well lose sight of the good things.

Your poignant reminder that "most things... have already happened somewhere," reminds me of a blog (I believe from a topic here at ATS) "SHTF School."


Surviving one year in a city surrounded by the enemy army and cut off from the rest of the world. I'm Selco and have been through this SHTF school I never wanted to attend during the Balkan wars 1992 - 1995. I write about this here.


His latest entry, "No Real Recovery" is some sobering and timely insight with regards to this topic...


I see in many survival forums and communities that people talk about freeze dried blueberry muffins for breakfast, their big generators and what they do to keep life normal in survival scenarios. I think this is just half of preparing and some people miss out on other half.

Get comfortable with change and to live worse.



I and people who went trough the things like I described are unable to see some things, things like real love and happiness. Things like that have been killed with all those kind of atrocities.

edit on 5/23/1212 by NoAngel2u because: (no reason given)

edit on 5/23/1212 by NoAngel2u because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 03:43 PM
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I have heard several people say recently (and have seen on the show "doomsday preppers") people say that they injured themselves badly enough during bug out exercises to need a hospital.

Here's my question. When you need a hospital after TSHTF and you hurt yourself two days into your bug out, where are you going to go?

If you're hurting yourself that badly so quickly into your bug out exercise, you definitely have work to do.

Good luck for a quick recovery tho.
edit on 23-5-2012 by babybunnies because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 04:08 PM
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Originally posted by babybunnies
I have heard several people say recently (and have seen on the show "doomsday preppers") people say that they injured themselves badly enough during bug out exercises to need a hospital.

Here's my question. When you need a hospital after TSHTF and you hurt yourself two days into your bug out, where are you going to go?

If you're hurting yourself that badly so quickly into your bug out exercise, you definitely have work to do.


LOL, Specifically, I twisted my knee wrong playing a game with the kids which could have easily happened at home on any given day. My whole point in the OP is about people who are injured and how we care for them if SHTF. And to know if anyone else has had those same injuries or surgery in which I wanted to discuss. Your reply did not even address my specific questions, but that is alright.

edit, thanks for the luck though

edit on 23-5-2012 by Starwise because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 04:09 PM
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Wait, so let me get this straight, you're saying you got injured, and you wanted others to show you the empathy that you yourself weren't willing to show others? I guess where I'm going with this, is that when you put yourself above all others, like the survivalist mentality calls for, it often dismisses the possibility that we ourselves are one incident away from needing the help of others.
I don't wish to nail you to the cross, or belittle you in any way, I simply am trying to point out the need for society as a whole to have people like you with a survivalist backgrounds, to help us transition back into government if a unforseen outcome occurs. Like Jesus said, there are always going to be homeless, and there are always going to be starving, but many of you have a unique set of skills which can provide information on what to eat, and how to make a shelter. You all will be in the position to be leaders of men, and will be respected for your knowledge unquestionably. However since none of us can cheat death, I'd advocate that you leave this world with the peace of mind that you empowered peole to survive, because if competition for scare resources is allowed to dictate human interaction, than we have undermined thousands of years of societal evolution which will ultimately result in total species destruction. There aren't enough bullets to stop the hungry, there isn't a bunker sturdy enough to withstand the thirsty and in all religions the only path to peace is through selfless devotion towards the betterment of others.



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 04:14 PM
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reply to post by nickendres
 


NO NO NO You are not interpreting correctly at all..........Who ever said I wasnt or havent or didnt show others empathy?
Go back to the drawing board on your post please



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 04:26 PM
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Originally posted by UdderlyInsane
reply to post by Starwise
 


There are foods, herbs, and salves that can help with the pain. Orange foods such as yams and squash, help with issues in the joints like arthritis. White willow bark is aspirin, and arnica salve is like using a muscle cream. Make sure you have two good braces if shtf one on and one packed in your bob in case you need to change it or it gets damaged.


Thank you for your reply! That is some really good information



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 05:01 PM
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It is obvious you are taking the right steps to recover already; no amount of projecting will get you back to where you were and fear is a wicked tool against us all.

There is a slight chance (but I don't know you) that if shtf, you would be carrying far more than any one should; perhaps you would even be carrying everything on your own shoulders. Your knee is you, and although this can be looked upon as "bad timing", it can also be seen as "sensible" for you. It is time for you to stop worrying and let yourself take a small but needed rest. Your survival is that you have "discernment", the ability to judge situations and handle them appropriately; your inability is likely to rest and not be the one to "do" and "reach" and "overcome". In other words, this is your wake-up call to get off of your feet and to do something for yourself internally. I bet it is hard to get you to take a break!


Now you will get one! Blessings can be disguised! You will gain your original strength and stamina, in due time, but right now, you haven't failed nor have you lost. It is perfect timing. Just imagine how hard it will be to get something like this repaired six months after the fact! Impossible I bet!



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 05:15 PM
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"After a *BUG OUT* training exercise of camping for a few days..."

Now, I have to laugh here.
Did you REALLY believe camping was going to be a Bugging Out exercise??
You and your family are toast.



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 05:41 PM
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reply to post by ImAwareSC
 

I say they aren't,people are not going to kill each other any more than NORMAL people do every day if jerks show up to attack families then I have a new job.My pay would be food and bullets please.If you can spare any of course.
Anyone who thinks a thug can take an armed vet is thankfully mistaken and when they cluster f##k that makes them easier to take out in an ambush.Just ask yourselves are you going to shoot unprovoked at others? If so then return fire may be a bit more accurate.You can't live in a hole for long unless you are the guy in a missile silo with provisions and an armed crew who guard the entrances.The rest have each other.Believe that.



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