Originally posted by Pigraphia

If warmongering humans growing up isn't a reference to being enlightened I don't know what is.

I just favor free will above all, and that comes with the good and bad that entails.

It simply means doing a better job of getting along with one another, and living together in relative peace on a much wider scale - world wide. So far no civilization on this planet has really accomplished that, to my knowledge. Not what I would call enlightenment. But then I don't believe in so-called enlightenment anyway.

If you believe in free will above all then would you also give a loaded gun to a child if they asked for one to play with? That's their free will. Because in some ways that's really what your suggesting we do.

Originally posted by myn4m3
If you believe in free will above all then would you also give a loaded gun to a child if they asked for one to play with? That's their free will. Because in some ways that's really what your suggesting we do.

edit on 29-5-2012 by myn4m3 because: (no reason given)

Ah I love when people take something to the absurd.
That's actually a logical fallacy taking someones point making an extremely absurd statement then saying their argument fails barbecue the absurd fails.

Define child? I would let a 10 year old have a pellet gun, a 12 year old have a shot gun.
I might even go younger depending on the child.
Yes I believe in free will, and letting people exercise it as much as possible.
People just need some foundational education first, and depending on the person that education might be attainable at varying ages.

It's all about educating them.
Throw on top of that there are some things a child can't comprehend, though I would argue that is more of society messing around.
You used to be an adult at 13-15 with adult responsibilities now we treat them like children still.
I could go into developmental psychology, or even the physical development of the brain but that's not what this thread is for.

I try not to entertain logical fallacies much further than to point them out as in a conversation they are more than a little rude.
I did entertain your fallacy longer than I should have, that is a fault on my part.
It just irks me when someone pulls out a fallacy to try and validate their point, or invalidate another.

I'd like to actually get back to the thread now if that's okay with you.

Originally posted by Pigraphia

Ah I love when people take something to the absurd.
That's actually a logical fallacy taking someones point making an extremely absurd statement then saying their argument fails barbecue the absurd fails.

Sounds like your the one being absurd. First, we are on topic. Your saying we should all have access to these so-called magic powers the thread starter asked about and it should be our right to them because of free will.

I'm saying no, there are rules and grades of advancement you have to follow or you won't be able to handle these abilities/would be too immature for them and would most likely bring harm (or even death) to others and yourself.

I'm also saying "most" people on this planet are too immature/selfish or war like and would abuse any of these abilities if they had them, and that is at least part of the reason almost no one has any of them or ever will have access to them.

Some things in life have to be earned and in this case there are no shortcuts. To quote from a popular book/movie I like, "You will not succeed. Only the worthy can unlock the stone".

You need the right person who has the ability and also that person has to know magic is real. Science is afraid of magic because it could crush the belief in science. If you have great magical abilities and don't know it than you are no threat to Science. Schools teach us that magic is just an illusion. Some is but remember that our world is nothing but an illusion also. Look at the Economies, Money, Media, and Legal systems. They aren't real. We are BSed to believe they are for us but most people understand that only a few enjoy the support of these things. If you play the game then you succeed. That is about to change. Everything we know will be turned upside down in the near future. This illusion man created is about to be exposed. The truth will prevail.

I can make up things just as well as the ones that structure this present reality. My above paragraph is about as real as America's economy I suppose that makes that paragraph a lie

Originally posted by TheGrandWarlock
perhaps only from my perspective, but it seems like magic is really restrained.
why do you think that is?

it feels like there's something blocking the flow or a connection/link is missing..has the really powerful magic been forgotten, is it a lost art now?

im talking about the magic that lets you fly, control the elements, teleport, shapeshift, ressurect the dead, etc.

what happened to it?


or am i just crazy and it never existed in the first place?
i mean there must be a reason why theres so much magic in fantasy..is magic just a made-up concept or was magic real then put into fantasy books by TPTB so that we would think it wasnt real? CONSPIRACY!


no but seriously, i am completely stumped

edit on 22-5-2012 by TheGrandWarlock because: (no reason given)

what happened to it? it went into hiding....

There are probably a few witches or sorcerors/wizards still lying around that can achieve these things but keep it a closely guarded secret and live in hiding. Not to mention I'm pretty sure there are a few monks hiding away somewhere that can easily regrow limbs, levitate, move objects with their mind and manifest objects out of thin air. Good luck finding them or getting them to share though.

I would say all this is achievable through the power of the mind alone, through willpower and intent. Mind over matter. Magick is merely a tool for the mind and the mind is the real power behind it. Magick is still around btw but I imagine most of the destructive and powerful stuff has either been lost or kept a very closely guarded secret.

Originally posted by Pigraphia
You were talking about not even letting people try to learn, that isn't right.
Everyone should be allowed to attempt to learn something because free will is important.

You want to limit education opportunities(if they exist as this is a theoretical discussion).
Limiting education opportunities is enslavement plain and simple.

Nope, I never said that. I never said that people can't attempt to try. It is what it is. I don't make the rules. If you can't understand my last (or other) post(s), then I can't help you. I'm not going to explain it any further. Good luck in your quest for power.

I have some experience in the type of magick OP was talking about. On 3 different occasions I made a piece of paper translate across a surface using a wand and an incantation. I never really had an interest in the 'airy' magick commonly practiced until, last year I recalled past life memories where 'hands-on' magick was commonplace across the ancient world and an interest in magick sparked. So yes such magick does exist.

Why is magic so limited?

Let's look at our lives. Every day people make decisions they cannot follow through on. Such as "I'm going to start a workout routine." or "I'm going to be positive from now on." Even though they start off in a good direction, before long, they give up. It's almost as if they are not in charge of their lives.

They're not. Within us, there are many influences. Preferences, social and genetic conditioning, life history, each trait gains a certain degree of influence on how we feel. The more we continue a habit, the more momentum that pattern has. The more we concentrate on a belief, for example, the more profound it becomes automatically. For example, if you think everyone's out to get you, and each new person in the neighborhood is imagined a thug or a criminal government agent, each time you see someone, anxiety will build, tension mounts. You begin to watch what you say, your body shows signs of stress, your perception is distorted.

This is a very dramatic example. Let's think about when we were in school. You'd see a nice young man or woman you find attractive(attractiveness is determined already by other factors, but not the scope of this topic.) Each time you look at them, or think they're beautiful, the more attractive they seem to you, the smaller their flaws become. Likewise, when you look at a politician, and each time you look at him you think he is a liar, a criminal, it generates a more intense automatic response when you think of him. This pattern of thought has gained a lot of influence in you.

For example, each day here on ATS, some thread about child or animal abuse comes up, and you know, you've seen too many atrocities, it builds momentum, you see just one picture and a strong feeling of sorrow or anger rises. This is a well-nourished potential inside of you.

These influences all cast a vote regarding how you'll think, feel, or act in a given situation. It's a rather automatic system. Confusion arises when there is no clear majority leaning one way or another.

What does this have to do with magic? Everything. Unless you've taken the time to convert your potentials, to become conscious of them, you cannot even determine how you feel. If you are not even in charge of the state of being you have, how could you influence external circumstances?

To speak briefly about manifestations and seemingly "magical" operation if you want an effect on something, you need to take away it's ability to influence your state of being. Not by being in denial of how you feel, for that would negate consciousness, and be in conflict with nature. You need to feel what is actually there, feel how your really feel, until it loses more and more power to determine what your inner state is. First you need to take away the power of external circumstances to influence how you feel, via projection of responsibility, then you need to stop identifying with the experiences that you feel personally, for identification is attachment, which gives the situation control over you.

If someone attacking your child throws you into a mad rage, instead of simply responding to the situation, you are not in charge of your state of being. You project the responsibility for how you feel in the identity you place in your child, and the frustrations you project on the attacker.

If you want mastery, you have to first become conscious. If you cannot stay completely concentrated on an object of focus for an unlimited time period, without having your mind waver or shift subject, you have too much identity in the mind, you have not mastered it. If you cannot remain conscious of every physical action you take, without simply moving automatically, you have not mastered it. If you cannot pay attention to every breathe, you are not a master.

Now, you want to fly? Ok. Can you consciously feel the atomic and subatomic components of your physical strcuture? No? If you can't even feel them, how are you going to be able to get them to perform how you want? You want to command the elements, but you're afraid of fire, you project a need for power into nature, and if it doesn't happen you doubt yourself and feel insecure? You're not going to make it happen. Is your perception limited still by the range of the nervous system?

You need to begin by reclaiming mastery over your state of being. Look at the message of Jesus, tortured, crucified, but such was the mastery that he was speaking of forgiving even those who had just destroyed his body. Mastery comes from experience, from being conscious, and observing until something is stripped entirely of influence over you, whether it's about how conscious you can be of it, or how it makes you feel. When you reclaim this, you can begin to train effectively to have whatever ability you wish.

You just need to be free of it's hold on you.