Five reasons why gay marriage is a basic, conservative value

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by ollncasino
I was under the impression that Obama wanted to change the legal definition of marriage.

Where did you get that impression? Because he has never said that.

What is the "Legal definition of marriage"? Because I believe each state has its own.

What Is The Legal Definition Of Marriage?
Marriage is defined as a civil contract between two people who meet the legal requirements for getting married established by the state, which vary from state to state.

LawInfo

Doesn't sound like he wants to change anything. ...it's really a shame that bigots are so blinded by hatred that they want to deprive other human beings of basic human rights

Originally posted by PurpleChiten

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by ollncasino
I was under the impression that Obama wanted to change the legal definition of marriage.

Where did you get that impression? Because he has never said that.

What is the "Legal definition of marriage"? Because I believe each state has its own.

What Is The Legal Definition Of Marriage?
Marriage is defined as a civil contract between two people who meet the legal requirements for getting married established by the state, which vary from state to state.

LawInfo

Doesn't sound like he wants to change anything. ...it's really a shame that bigots are so blinded by hatred that they want to deprive other human beings of basic human rights

You should really turn off your reality distortion field.

The Supreme Court is NOT going to tell the Catholic Church to perform a gay

marriage. That is not the role of the United States Government.

---------
BTW, the people of Florida stand with me.

Romney is way ahead now. Florida = Red State

Obama rolled the dice and lost.

Originally posted by Eurisko2012


You should really turn off your reality distortion field.

The Supreme Court is NOT going to tell the Catholic Church to perform a gay

marriage. That is not the role of the United States Government.

Who in the world said ANYTHING about forcing the catholic church to perform gay marriage?????
LEGAL marriage has absolutely NOTHING to do with any church. You can get married at the courthouse, you can get married at a church of your choice that is willing to do the ceremony. You can get married by anyone who is given the authority by the GOVERNMENT to marry you. The government just happens to give its permission for church clergy to sign marriage certificates, but they still have to get the marriage license at the courthouse before they have the ceremony.
Nobody is going to force anyone to perform ceremonies that they don't want to perform. Nobody is going to force YOU or ME to take part in a gay wedding, however, it's not OUR right to tell them THEY can't participate in one.
What part of this is so difficult for you to comprehend?


florida has always been a red state and this is not an election thread, take your election trolling elsewhere

Originally posted by PurpleChiten

and what makes you think that number is accurate opposed to all the sources that say otherwise with much more credibility?

I don't think its possible yet to get an accurate count of LGBTQ people.

Even though many have come out - - I suspect far more are in the closet or in denial or making excuses.

Is the study directed at just Homosexuals - - and not Lesbians and/or all the other subgroups?

The 10% comes from Kinsey. It could be less - it could be more. We just don't know and have no way at this time of getting an accurate count.

BTW - - Left Handed is 10% - - - and only a few years ago was a gene discovered that might lead to what causes some to be Left Handed.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by PurpleChiten

and what makes you think that number is accurate opposed to all the sources that say otherwise with much more credibility?

I don't think its possible yet to get an accurate count of LGBTQ people.

Even though many have come out - - I suspect far more are in the closet or in denial or making excuses.

Is the study directed at just Homosexuals - - and not Lesbians and/or all the other subgroups?

The 10% comes from Kinsey. It could be less - it could be more. We just don't know and have no way at this time of getting an accurate count.

BTW - - Left Handed is 10% - - - and only a few years ago was a gene discovered that might lead to what causes some to be Left Handed.

It's very difficult to get accurate numbers due to the nature of the question unfortunately. I posted several different polling results a few pages back showing a wide range of numbers...but all of the numbers were much higher than the (omitted expletive) posted. Some went as high as 18%, others as low as 5%. That's probably why the general accepted amount is approximately 10% as Kinsey stated. Also, Kinsey has done the most unbiased research so he's pretty accepted in all scientific communities.

For those who only want to post poll numbers and try to pick arguments, www.pollingreport.com has ALL major polls listed by most recent.
Here's the most recent.

ABC News/Washington Post Poll. May 17-20, 2012. N=1,004 adults nationwide. Margin of error ± 4.

"Do you think it should be legal or illegal for gay and lesbian couples to get married?"
2005 & 2010-2012: "gay and lesbian." 2009: "gay and lesbian" asked of half the sample, "homosexual" asked of half the sample. Other years: "homosexual."

Legal 53%
Illegal 39%
Unsure 8%

It looks as those saying the majority is against it are dead wrong.

Originally posted by PurpleChiten
For those who only want to post poll numbers and try to pick arguments, www.pollingreport.com has ALL major polls listed by most recent.
Here's the most recent.

ABC News/Washington Post Poll. May 17-20, 2012. N=1,004 adults nationwide. Margin of error ± 4.

"Do you think it should be legal or illegal for gay and lesbian couples to get married?"
2005 & 2010-2012: "gay and lesbian." 2009: "gay and lesbian" asked of half the sample, "homosexual" asked of half the sample. Other years: "homosexual."

Legal 53%
Illegal 39%
Unsure 8%

It looks as those saying the majority is against it are dead wrong.

I think you need to go back to school.

31 states have said - no way - to gay marriage.

There are only 50 states.

That means a - clear majority - agree with me.

BTW, i can already see State # 32 is on the way.

We have momentum.

Originally posted by PurpleChiten

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by PurpleChiten

and what makes you think that number is accurate opposed to all the sources that say otherwise with much more credibility?

I don't think its possible yet to get an accurate count of LGBTQ people.

Even though many have come out - - I suspect far more are in the closet or in denial or making excuses.

Is the study directed at just Homosexuals - - and not Lesbians and/or all the other subgroups?

The 10% comes from Kinsey. It could be less - it could be more. We just don't know and have no way at this time of getting an accurate count.

BTW - - Left Handed is 10% - - - and only a few years ago was a gene discovered that might lead to what causes some to be Left Handed.

It's very difficult to get accurate numbers due to the nature of the question unfortunately. I posted several different polling results a few pages back showing a wide range of numbers...but all of the numbers were much higher than the (omitted expletive) posted. Some went as high as 18%, others as low as 5%. That's probably why the general accepted amount is approximately 10% as Kinsey stated. Also, Kinsey has done the most unbiased research so he's pretty accepted in all scientific communities.

Yes -- and the Gates survey relates only to those who have come out and identify themselves as Homosexual/Lesbian.

That survey also says this:

Estimates of those who report any lifetime same-sex sexual behavior and any same-sex sexual attraction are substantially higher than estimates of those who identify as LGB. An estimated 19 million Americans (8.2%) report that they have engaged in same-sex sexual behavior and nearly 25.6 million Americans (11%) acknowledge at least some same-sex sexual attraction. williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu...

Originally posted by Eurisko2012

I think you need to go back to school.

31 states have said - no way - to gay marriage.

There are only 50 states.

That means a - clear majority - agree with me.

BTW, i can already see State # 32 is on the way.

We have momentum.

Actually, I feel I have plenty of degrees, but never opposed to going to "school", perhaps you should give it a try?
Individualized state elections don't factor into majorities, especially since many of those 31 states enacted their legislation several years ago when the majority wasn't in favor of it. If it were revisted today, on the national level, it would be legalized. However, it is not likely to be brought up for a national vote, it will be settled by the supreme court and it won't really matter what individual states voted for or against, the SCOTUS determines what the outcome will be.
Carry on.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by PurpleChiten

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by PurpleChiten

and what makes you think that number is accurate opposed to all the sources that say otherwise with much more credibility?

I don't think its possible yet to get an accurate count of LGBTQ people.

Even though many have come out - - I suspect far more are in the closet or in denial or making excuses.

Is the study directed at just Homosexuals - - and not Lesbians and/or all the other subgroups?

The 10% comes from Kinsey. It could be less - it could be more. We just don't know and have no way at this time of getting an accurate count.

BTW - - Left Handed is 10% - - - and only a few years ago was a gene discovered that might lead to what causes some to be Left Handed.

It's very difficult to get accurate numbers due to the nature of the question unfortunately. I posted several different polling results a few pages back showing a wide range of numbers...but all of the numbers were much higher than the (omitted expletive) posted. Some went as high as 18%, others as low as 5%. That's probably why the general accepted amount is approximately 10% as Kinsey stated. Also, Kinsey has done the most unbiased research so he's pretty accepted in all scientific communities.

Yes -- and the Gates survey relates only to those who have come out and identify themselves as Homosexual/Lesbian.

That survey also says this:

Estimates of those who report any lifetime same-sex sexual behavior and any same-sex sexual attraction are substantially higher than estimates of those who identify as LGB. An estimated 19 million Americans (8.2%) report that they have engaged in same-sex sexual behavior and nearly 25.6 million Americans (11%) acknowledge at least some same-sex sexual attraction. williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu...

Interesting information that was excluded by the homophobic poster who tried to use the same source as this poll to defend his hatred and bigotry!
It really is a shame that the undereducated hate-mongers don't realize that those of us with some sense also understand statistics whereas they do not.

Originally posted by ollncasino

So gays make up only about 1.33% of the US population according to demographer-in-residence at the Williams Institute on Sexual Orientation Law and Public Policy, at the University of California, Los Angeles.

From all the noise they make you would assume that there were many more gays than there actually are.

You do realize that it's not just gay people who support gay rights, right?

What percentage of the population they make up should have zero baring on the debate? If everything were decided by popular opinion, we would be living in an entirely different country right now.

reply to post by nunya13


All they have to do is move to Vermont.

They can live happily ever after.

--------
Public opinion has turned against the pro gay marriage movement.

State #32 is on the way. The people of Florida have awoken and they have spoken.

They see the big picture now.

Originally posted by Annee


There is only marriage - - for everyone.

Do we make reference to Black Marriage - Hetero Marriage - Old People Marriage?

No - - its just marriage.

I think you misunderstood what I was getting at here. Everyone says marriage is between one man and one woman as if that is a definition in and of itself. It is not a definition at all, only an explanation of who will be allowed to take part in it.

I'm not talking about defining it by WHO gets to get married. I am talking about defining exactly what marriage is. We can all agree it is a union between two people. But what kind of union? Everyone has different ideas about what marriage is. It would be nearly impossible to legally define. If we do not have a true legal definition of marriage then how is it that the government gets to say who gets to take part in it?

Originally posted by ollncasino

So the real gay population is much, much smaller than the public have been led to believe.

If the gay population is as small as 2%, what right do they have to redefine the legal defintion of marriage for the hetrosexual 98%?

And no one is trying to redefine marriage. In fact, marriage has not been legally defined. Saying it is between one man and one woman is not a legal definition of marriage. It is a legal basis for who can enter into a marriage and have it recognized by the state.

How can one redefine something that hasn't even been defined?

reply to post by Eurisko2012



I find it interest that you defended your position by using the "popular opinion" argument when replying to my post which stated popular opinion should have no bearing on the debate. You didn't even address my points or countered them. Instead, you used the very argument I pointed out as being moot.

Originally posted by nunya13

Originally posted by ollncasino

So gays make up only about 1.33% of the US population according to demographer-in-residence at the Williams Institute on Sexual Orientation Law and Public Policy, at the University of California, Los Angeles.

From all the noise they make you would assume that there were many more gays than there actually are.

You do realize that it's not just gay people who support gay rights, right?

What percentage of the population they make up should have zero baring on the debate? If everything were decided by popular opinion, we would be living in an entirely different country right now.

We've told him this a hundred times, he just wants to agitate and try to cause people to get upset. That's the way he works. Don't let him get under your skin too much, trolls will be trolls

Originally posted by Eurisko2012


31 states have said - no way - to gay marriage.

There are only 50 states.

That means a - clear majority - agree with me.

Unless you consider yourself a state, you need to do the math again.

Originally posted by nunya13

Originally posted by Annee


There is only marriage - - for everyone.

Do we make reference to Black Marriage - Hetero Marriage - Old People Marriage?

No - - its just marriage.

I think you misunderstood what I was getting at here. Everyone says marriage is between one man and one woman as if that is a definition in and of itself. It is not a definition at all, only an explanation of who will be allowed to take part in it.

I did not mistake what you were saying.

When we are speaking of Gays - - - we are speaking of LEGAL Government Marriage. Which is in reality a contract for protection of rights and property of joining 2 lives into one household. Gender is irrelevant.

Marriage is and has always been a contract.

The romanticized concept of Marriage - - is actually very new/modern. Love had nothing to do with Marriage up until a few hundred years ago.

reply to post by Annee


Exactly, and that state refusing to recognize certain marriages is discriminatory if the state can't even truly define what a marriage is, nor should they because, as you said, the definition of marriage changes as time moves on. People have different definitions for marriage.

Originally posted by nunya13
reply to post by Annee

 

Exactly, and that state refusing to recognize certain marriages is discriminatory if the state can't even truly define what a marriage is, nor should they because, as you said, the definition of marriage changes as time moves on. People have different definitions for marriage.

But the bottom line is - - - its a contract. Legal Government Marriage is a contract.

Rather then ask what the definition of Marriage is. Ask what the definition of a contract is.

And as you can clearly see - - - gender is not relevant.

CONTRACT: A contract is an agreement entered into voluntarily by two parties or more with the intention of creating a legal obligation, which may have elements in writing, though contracts can be made orally. The remedy for breach of contract can be "damages" or compensation of money. In equity, the remedy can be specific performance of the contract or an injunction. Both of these remedies award the party at loss the "benefit of the bargain" or expectation damages, which are greater than mere reliance damages, as in promissory estoppel. The parties may be natural persons or juristic persons. A contract is a legally enforceable promise or undertaking that something will or will not occur. The word promise can be used as a legal synonym for contract.[1], although care is required as a promise may not have the full standing of a contract, as when it is an agreement without consideration. en.wikipedia.org...