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Five reasons why gay marriage is a basic, conservative value

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posted on May, 23 2012 @ 02:04 PM
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Originally posted by Eurisko2012
BTW, i have the people of Florida on my side.


I live in florida..you are not on my side. sry.
the drips down here don't even consider politics until the election kickoff starts...then the urban areas wake up and weigh in.

and what is this your side you are talking about? Who are you? are you some sort of anti-gay messiah or big named leader?
you think you created the whole social agenda?

Your the type that yells at a football game because you think somehow it helps "your" team...aren't you..

Your dismissed.




posted on May, 23 2012 @ 02:04 PM
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In a recent UK survey, only 34% of people agreed with gay marriage.

ComRes Poll

Support for gay marriage is somewhat lacking.


edit on 23-5-2012 by ollncasino because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 02:04 PM
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Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by kaylaluv
Let's have civil union licenses for everyone, and marriage ceremonies for those that want it.


I don't think we can do that - - because that's like going backward.

The term Marriage is already being used globally by countries that have legalized Marriage for everyone.

I just don't think you can take away something that already is accepted around the world.


I'm just talking about the piece of paper. There's nothing stopping people using the term marriage. You can't stop gays from saying they're married - no one could enforce that. The piece of paper just allows all the legal rights - same for everyone. It doesn't matter if the piece of paper says something a little different, country to country.

Besides, anyone could have a religious/spiritual "marriage ceremony" (formally or casually), and rightfully call their union a marriage, regardless of what the piece of paper says.



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 02:05 PM
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reply to post by ollncasino
 


Really that is irrelevant. We don't ascribe to mob rule in the USA.



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 02:08 PM
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Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by Eurisko2012
BTW, i have the people of Florida on my side.


I live in florida..you are not on my side. sry.
the drips down here don't even consider politics until the election kickoff starts...then the urban areas wake up and weigh in.

and what is this your side you are talking about? Who are you? are you some sort of anti-gay messiah or big named leader?
you think you created the whole social agenda?

Your the type that yells at a football game because you think somehow it helps "your" team...aren't you..

Your dismissed.


At least i know how to spell - naive -.


--------
BTW, recent polling has the people of Florida running to Romney and away

from Obama due to Obamas gay marriage evolution.



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 02:10 PM
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Originally posted by MsAphrodite
Really that is irrelevant. We don't ascribe to mob rule in the USA.


Apparently gay rights activists have no respect for democracy.

Gays have lost the vote on gay marriage in all 31 states where voters have forced a referedum.

Gay marriage thrown out by all 31 U.S. states where it has been put to vote




edit on 23-5-2012 by ollncasino because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 02:11 PM
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Originally posted by MsAphrodite
reply to post by Annee
 


Excellent point Annee. Answer me this if you know:

If gay marriage is made legal vs. having the government no longer perform marriages and just issue contracts.


Separate issue. Equal Rights must be attained now as it stands with Legal Government Marriage License.


How will legal gay marriage affect churches, synagogues, mosques, temples etc.?


Why should it have any affect and why should I care?


Would they be forced to perform and recognize these marriages since they would now be legal? Would there be other ramifications for religious liberty?


Churches in American can refuse to marry anyone. Even hetero couples of their own congregation.


I am not religious, but I do care about maintaining liberty for all. Therefore, I would like to see this addressed in the way that would best preserve liberty for as many citizens of this nation as is possible.


There is only liberty being denied of a minority group.


I would love to see this aspect of this issue discussed in a civil way. How do we preserve both liberty and freedom of religion?


Freedom of religion? - -- interfering in lives of people who do not affect them in any way?

Trying to control a Secular government?



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 02:11 PM
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Originally posted by Annee
Here's a scenario that happens a lot.

You and your partner buy life insurance from a company that accepts gay partners. Without notification - - this company sells to another company - - who may sell your policy to another company.

You pay on it for 30 years. Your partner dies. The company that now holds your policy does not honor same sex partners.

That sounds like a legal case to me. A company that purchases another company is required (typically) to honor existing contracts. Breaking contract would end up making them pay far more than just honoring to begin with. Not to mention potential discrimination...and the inevitable bad press about breaking contract to begin with.



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 02:13 PM
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Originally posted by ollncasino

Originally posted by MsAphrodite
Really that is irrelevant. We don't ascribe to mob rule in the USA.


Apparently gay rights activists have no respect for democracy.

Gays have lost the vote on gay marriage in all 31 states where voters have forced a referedum.



And if those states had been allowed to vote on the rights of blacks?

The supreme court will eventually declare a Federal Marriage Rights Act. It will nullify any state vote.



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 02:14 PM
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Originally posted by ollncasino

Originally posted by MsAphrodite
Really that is irrelevant. We don't ascribe to mob rule in the USA.


Apparently gay rights activists have no respect for democracy.

Gays have lost the vote on gay marriage in all 31 states where voters have forced a referedum.

Gay marriage thrown out by all 31 U.S. states where it has been put to vote


edit on 23-5-2012 by ollncasino because: (no reason given)


Blacks had no respect for democracy either when they tried to get civil rights.

imagine that..the minority going against the will of the majority..what disrespect.



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 02:14 PM
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Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by Annee
Here's a scenario that happens a lot.

You and your partner buy life insurance from a company that accepts gay partners. Without notification - - this company sells to another company - - who may sell your policy to another company.

You pay on it for 30 years. Your partner dies. The company that now holds your policy does not honor same sex partners.

That sounds like a legal case to me. A company that purchases another company is required (typically) to honor existing contracts. Breaking contract would end up making them pay far more than just honoring to begin with. Not to mention potential discrimination...and the inevitable bad press about breaking contract to begin with.



Well it doesn't.

This has happened a LOT!



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 02:15 PM
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Originally posted by ollncasino
In a recent UK survey, only 34% of people agreed with gay marriage.

ComRes Poll

Support for gay marriage is somewhat lacking.


edit on 23-5-2012 by ollncasino because: (no reason given)


I think nobody approved of the Dan Savage rant against the Christian teenagers.

------------
BTW,

Drudge has the shock poll showing the people of Florida running away from

Obama.

- They are voting thumbs down on gay marriage. -



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 02:18 PM
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Originally posted by kaylaluv

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by kaylaluv
Let's have civil union licenses for everyone, and marriage ceremonies for those that want it.


I don't think we can do that - - because that's like going backward.

The term Marriage is already being used globally by countries that have legalized Marriage for everyone.

I just don't think you can take away something that already is accepted around the world.


I'm just talking about the piece of paper. There's nothing stopping people using the term marriage. You can't stop gays from saying they're married - no one could enforce that. The piece of paper just allows all the legal rights - same for everyone. It doesn't matter if the piece of paper says something a little different, country to country.

Besides, anyone could have a religious/spiritual "marriage ceremony" (formally or casually), and rightfully call their union a marriage, regardless of what the piece of paper says.


I don't support settling for anything less then Full Equality. A Federal Marriage Act for everyone.

Anti-Gays - - - always seem to exclude - - that gays were raised in religions too. Many want the full church wedding in the eyes of their god - - in addition to the Legal status of marriage.



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 02:19 PM
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Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by MsAphrodite
reply to post by Annee
 


Excellent point Annee. Answer me this if you know:




How will legal gay marriage affect churches, synagogues, mosques, temples etc.?


Why should it have any affect and why should I care?





You should care about everyone's rights equally. You are here defending gay rights. What about religious rights? Again how do we preserve liberty for all? This is an important question and goes to the very heart of this issue.
edit on 23-5-2012 by MsAphrodite because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 02:23 PM
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Originally posted by MsAphrodite

You should care about everyone's rights equally. You are here defending gay rights. What about religious rights? Again how do we preserve liberty for all? This is an important question and goes to the very heart of this issue.


In America - - religion already has its freedom that can not be taken from it. Any pastor/reverend/priest - - whatever - - can refuse to marry anyone for any reason - - or even no reason. Period!

You are trying to make an argument that is non-existent.



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 02:24 PM
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Originally posted by SaturnFX
Blacks had no respect for democracy either when they tried to get civil rights.


How can anyone respect the gay community if they don't respect democracy?



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 02:24 PM
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reply to post by freakjive
 


Good going OP. It never ceases to amaze me how many hypocrites we have at these boards, just look at some of the replies.

Freedom is good for these people but not these people... government should stay out of our lives, except when it enforces religious dogmatic views onto others...


Really? Who gives a flying (expletive) what someone else does? It's their life and they have the same human rights you do... which means freedom to do whatever they please as long as they harm no other person in the community.

Pretty simple huh? I'd go with -- do no harm, and apart from that it's nobody's business.

All you hypocrites need to look at yourselves. How many are women, how many are black? Remember when others thought none of you should vote since you weren't "exactly" human?

Well, look at yourself in the mirror... you have replaced those bigots and hypocrites from half a century ago. Congratulations!

Hopefully you do a bit better than your parents and teach your kids not to hate others.


Khar



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 02:25 PM
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reply to post by Annee
 


Please correct me if I am wrong. You support forcing all religious groups to recognize and perform gay marriages under proposed federal law?

Or are you saying for religious groups that are more than willing to perform gay marriages?



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 02:27 PM
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reply to post by Annee
 


I'm sorry if I come across as being argumentative. That is not my intention or tone I promise you. I am just trying to clarify my understanding of your position. I am completely open minded and willing to change my view. That is why I am here.



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 02:27 PM
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Originally posted by Annee
I don't support settling for anything less then Full Equality. A Federal Marriage Act for everyone.

Anti-Gays - - - always seem to exclude - - that gays were raised in religions too. Many want the full church wedding in the eyes of their god - - in addition to the Legal status of marriage.



See, I think this is where you and I have a disagreement. You are pushing the marriage equality thing.
and yes, I see how realistically this is how it will be resolved in the short term.

But I think the best solution is what kayla is saying overall...its not about adding bricks to this religious institution, but rather tearing it all down...

I tried to point out a (somewhat futurist) example of how this is just a band aid that will not solve the issue overall. My mind has issues in seeing future issues that will pop up, I just know that this is, even if full equality is given for marriage, not solve this issue. This is adding more legal aspects to something verses making it simple.

I think civil unions need to carry the same weight as marriage across the board...and the government just get out of the business of religion...transfer rights and benefits from religion to legal union and let people have whatever cermony and call it whatever they want...let em call it marriage, god union, or love connection...totally up to the private sector to give out arbitrary titles that has no recognition whatsoever.

Then enforce business practices general non-discrimination laws...that would resolve the insurance example you put out.

How does elimination of marriage recognition not create equality?
edit on 23-5-2012 by SaturnFX because: added a thing



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