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Five reasons why gay marriage is a basic, conservative value

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posted on May, 23 2012 @ 12:34 PM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
reply to post by something wicked
 



Originally posted by something wicked
Why are you making this a Christian issue?


Christians are the largest (and maybe only?) group to so vociferously oppose marriage equality, pressuring the lawmakers to keep it illegal. If the Christians got out of the way, gay marriage would be legal in all 50 states.


Gonna disagree with you here
Christians, for all their warts, scars, bad breath, etc etc etc...is tame compared to islams stance on it.

Go to the middle east..if they catch you doing something gay, or even suspect..they simply imprison or kill you.
So, Christianity isn't -that- bad when compared to the worst.

But, I am of the opinion that anything in the west should want to be more than just "better than the worst"...rather, the west in general should be cutting the path to the absolute best.
If christianity wants to continue relevance in the western civilization, its time they stop underachieving.




posted on May, 23 2012 @ 12:39 PM
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Originally posted by SaturnFX


Go to the middle east..if they catch you doing something gay, or even suspect..they simply imprison or kill you.
So, Christianity isn't -that- bad when compared to the worst.


We're not in the middle east. (at least most of us).

I'm in America. It is the Fundamental Christian Right leading the very public charge against gays.



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 12:45 PM
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Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by Eurisko2012
We only need one reason.

Thousands of years of tradition. Bristol Palin is correct.

Same can be said for slavery.

Just because something has been done for a long time, doesn't mean it is right.


31 states have decided. - no gay marriage -

Bristol Palin stands in the majority.

Obama has seen too many Glee episodes.



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 12:46 PM
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Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by SaturnFX


Go to the middle east..if they catch you doing something gay, or even suspect..they simply imprison or kill you.
So, Christianity isn't -that- bad when compared to the worst.


We're not in the middle east. (at least most of us).

I'm in America. It is the Fundamental Christian Right leading the very public charge against gays.


Right, just wanted to get the technicals correct here. Globally (eventually we as a species are going to have to start thinking globally verses nationally) the biggest injustice comes from islam far more than christianity..
But yes, in the west here, the thorn in our enlightened side is christianity (the organization) and its insistence not to join the west in the 21st century...well, not all branches..but the loudest of them anyhow.

People in my 40 page thread called me pretty much a troll for bringing up a study done by a christian organizatoin that demonstrated why young adults ultimately percieved the church as..which is anti-homosexual. They went on and on about how the church isn't, I am a bad person for pointing out the study, etc etc etc.

Then this comes up...

The problem with christians (the believers, not the church) is that the default response to this marketing crisis they are facing is to 1) ignore, 2) defend christianity as a whole or 3) agree. there is none coming forward as loud as the idiots to counter their nuts.

What is the complaint of many about islam...its not the terroists themselves..they are a select few..but rather the sweeping majority that either ignore their radicals, say we are wrong for saying the religion is radical, or defend the radicals...
hypocracy...granted, it is a punch in the face verses a bullet in the head, but its still assault.



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 12:46 PM
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Originally posted by Eurisko2012

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by Eurisko2012
We only need one reason.

Thousands of years of tradition. Bristol Palin is correct.

Same can be said for slavery.

Just because something has been done for a long time, doesn't mean it is right.


31 states have decided. - no gay marriage -

Bristol Palin stands in the majority.

Obama has seen too many Glee episodes.

The only majority that counts is the supreme court



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 12:49 PM
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Originally posted by Eurisko2012

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by Eurisko2012
We only need one reason.

Thousands of years of tradition. Bristol Palin is correct.

Same can be said for slavery.

Just because something has been done for a long time, doesn't mean it is right.


31 states have decided. - no gay marriage -

Bristol Palin stands in the majority.

Obama has seen too many Glee episodes.


if a state decides to enslave black people, does that mean black people will be enslaved?

we are -not- in a democracy..we are in a republic.
people in groups are idiots..the founding fathers knew this..hense why they made this a republic.
31 states can want a theocracy and install a pope verses a president..they can also want to all be lotto winners.

Bristol Palin is some dancing chick, right? Why do I care about the thoughts of some semi-talented dancer?
Jay-Z agrees in equality...he has made something of his life without fame through proxy. His words are stronger than some dancing with the stars flop.



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 12:50 PM
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Originally posted by Eurisko2012

Florida (very important state) has switched and turn to Romney over the gay

marriage position by Obama. Romney is way ahead.

-------
North Carolina has also said - goodbye - to Obama.
edit on 23-5-2012 by Eurisko2012 because: (no reason given)


What the hell does any of that have to do with the OP?
What the hell does any of that have to do with the post you quoted?

Don't turn this into your own personal venue to preach Romney and bash Obama. There are plenty of other threads for that.

How do you feel about the content of the post?
I assume you identify yourself as a conservative based on our interactions and your posts.
Do you agree that gay marriage is a basic conservative value?



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 12:50 PM
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Originally posted by SaturnFX


Right, just wanted to get the technicals correct here. Globally (eventually we as a species are going to have to start thinking globally verses nationally)


I'm a Globalist. You don't need to go there with me.

As far as Islam - - I see it the same way I see others of religion. Everyone is an individual.

There are extreme vocal leaders in Christianity - as there are in Islam.

I will NOT slam Islam.



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 12:53 PM
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reply to post by SaturnFX
 


Give it a rest. Slavery is ancient history.

We fought the civil war over that issue.

Gay marriage will not happen in all 50 states.

It's up to the states to decide.



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 12:57 PM
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Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by SaturnFX


Right, just wanted to get the technicals correct here. Globally (eventually we as a species are going to have to start thinking globally verses nationally)


I'm a Globalist. You don't need to go there with me.

As far as Islam - - I see it the same way I see others of religion. Everyone is an individual.

There are extreme vocal leaders in Christianity - as there are in Islam.

I will NOT slam Islam.


I will

But I tend to do that with all religions that try to legislate moral code of space ghosts.

I see them as a big issue in the future once we sort the west out and try to achieve that type 1 civilization...you cant deny that.

And I have plenty of muslim friends...travelling around has made many people known to me. Got friends in egypt (where I had to work for a month), france (the person that worked next to me was a muslim and taught me many things.but he was an ass overall..just forced to work together over time). For years I worked alongside an iranian woman whom I think I was her best friend (due to my wild american ways..I think I intrigued her..not sexually, but just culturally) and she spent ages discussing her country, her ways, etc...all good people (except for that french douche whom didn't like me based on my passport alone. he was a white dude btw..never had issues with muslims).

Even the muslims I knew all knew that the clerics and leaders that push islam (their religion) were a problem and there is no great future for the nations should the religion not take a backseat towards progress.

I would also slam atheism if it stood in the way of unity and progression...my desire for the species trumps my personal viewpoints.
(the faster they build a spaceship I can jump on, the faster I can abandon this weird and destructive planet
)



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 12:57 PM
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Originally posted by freakjive

Originally posted by Eurisko2012

Florida (very important state) has switched and turn to Romney over the gay

marriage position by Obama. Romney is way ahead.

-------
North Carolina has also said - goodbye - to Obama.
edit on 23-5-2012 by Eurisko2012 because: (no reason given)


What the hell does any of that have to do with the OP?
What the hell does any of that have to do with the post you quoted?

Don't turn this into your own personal venue to preach Romney and bash Obama. There are plenty of other threads for that.

How do you feel about the content of the post?
I assume you identify yourself as a conservative based on our interactions and your posts.
Do you agree that gay marriage is a basic conservative value?



The thread/post is about gay marriage.

You act like i made a post about crop circles in England.

--------
The Obama gay marriage decision is having clear ripple effects.

-------
The conservatives only need 1 reason why gay marriage is NOT a basic

value.

We have thousands of years of tradition.



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 01:04 PM
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Originally posted by Eurisko2012
It's up to the states to decide.


Glad you said that
A very reasonable stance..
so
time to change it then



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 01:05 PM
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Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by SaturnFX


Right, just wanted to get the technicals correct here. Globally (eventually we as a species are going to have to start thinking globally verses nationally)


I'm a Globalist. You don't need to go there with me.

As far as Islam - - I see it the same way I see others of religion. Everyone is an individual.

There are extreme vocal leaders in Christianity - as there are in Islam.

I will NOT slam Islam.


I will

But I tend to do that with all religions that try to legislate moral code of space ghosts.


I'm an Atheist.

There are good people in everything.

The problem I see in the mid east is - - the religion is the government. That's the problem. Not the belief itself - - or individuals.

I am 100% Separation of Church and State.



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 01:07 PM
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reply to post by SaturnFX
 


Oh, haven't you heard???


Obama and Romney don't flip flop anymore. Now we all just evolve.


---------
Whatever. North Carolina is gone. Now Florida has abandoned Obama.



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 01:09 PM
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Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by Eurisko2012
It's up to the states to decide.


Glad you said that
A very reasonable stance..
so
time to change it then


Did you ever research why states have the right to make laws on marriage?

Did you know before the Fair Housing Act - - - groups of same like people could keep "undesirables" out of their community?

Same thing. States have marriage rights for discrimination purpose.

Antiquated - - - needs to be eliminated.

All marriage laws should be the same and Federal. Just like Civil Rights - - Fair Housing Act - - etc.



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 01:12 PM
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posted on May, 23 2012 @ 01:13 PM
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Originally posted by Eurisko2012
We have thousands of years of tradition.

Traditional marriage also included polygamy.

I am not against polygamy...as a choice..but state benefits and such should extend only to a couple, not several..I personally don't care about what the couples forms are...nor do I even actually care if love is there actually..its a legal thing (decisions, stability, etc..hell, let em be bff's.)

But ya..so, your view that since its tradition, therefore your all for it, means you also support polygamy.



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 01:17 PM
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reply to post by RealSpoke
 


Great pix!

Yes - I was a senior in high school when the Civil Rights Act was past in 1964.

Basically the same group of people fighting to keep gays from equal rights.



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 01:17 PM
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As a staunch but somewhat unorthodox conservative I agree and disagree with your post. I agree because I believe gays should absolutely have the right to engage in some sort of civil union that gives them the rights and benefits (such as health insurance for your partner)of marriage. I disagree with you in the idea of calling it gay marriage, like many others I see the word marriage as meaning a lifelong partnership between a man and a woman. It is NOT discrimination to call whatever ceremony they choose to do something other than marriage especially if it is exactly the same in legal connotations.

The reason I advocated this course of action is simple and two fold.

1. As has been pointed out gay marriage has been voted down in all 31 states it was brought to a vote in. That to me is a pretty ringing endorsement of people's level of discomfort with calling gay civil unions marriages. Because of this I feel like the LGBT community should reevaluate whether the terminology is worth losing the battle entirely over. What is really more important the ability to share insurance benefits and taxes and be able to pass on wealth after your death or ..... a word?

2. Assuming they can successfully pass civil union type legislation they can always revisit the marriage topic at a later date. Honestly to me it's just a matter of not poking the bear with a stick. Instead of getting the important parts (shared health insurance, inheritances etc) recognized they are pushing into an area that they are most likely not going to succeed at over the word marriage. And to top this off when they fail they will then call it discrimination and persecution because the system didn't give them their way even though it's quite plainly the stance of the majority that marriage applies to a man and a woman only.

Personally I could care less if the LGBT community wants to get married and call it marriage the more the merrier as far as I'm concerned. Or hell if they want to get married but call it Super Fun Time instead of marriage that's cool with me too. What I am not OK with is their attempts to flout the will of the people flagrantly. The LGBT community needs to take a long hard look at it's agenda's and objectives and really decide whether the word marriage or the actual act and benefits of marriage are more important to them. Really I think if they went after one or the other not both they would have more success.



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 01:17 PM
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Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by Eurisko2012
It's up to the states to decide.


Glad you said that
A very reasonable stance..
so
time to change it then


Did you ever research why states have the right to make laws on marriage?

Did you know before the Fair Housing Act - - - groups of same like people could keep "undesirables" out of their community?

Same thing. States have marriage rights for discrimination purpose.

Antiquated - - - needs to be eliminated.

All marriage laws should be the same and Federal. Just like Civil Rights - - Fair Housing Act - - etc.

I don't disagree with you.

Frankly, I just put that up there in order to show what a transparent tool Eurisko is...
he said he supports states rights
romney said he wants to make it a fed thing
watch...he will now be fully on board it being a fed thing...(he forgot to read his memo on how to think on this issue.)

I personally can be undecided on an issue, and therefore listen to wiser people than I to get perspective...thats one thing. Its another to be a complete tool to be used by whatever a political party tells you to think...I would feel ashamed of myself and how little I have of personality.



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