Originally posted by terry456
OBE are not real. The us gov did tests in the 90s And set up scientific experiments. All faild. Dr sam Sam Parnia is doing a experiment on NDE google
Thank you very much for your feedback.
Unfortuneately I do not know the test results of the 90's. But as you've recommended i googled for Dr. Sam Pamia and his experiments on NDE.
That is what i found on him in a first trial: Dr. Sam
Parnia Claims Near Death Experience Probably an Illusion
This article is dated as of October 2010. What is part of the .line of the article namely "probably" is more explained in the article itself. I
While Dr. Parnia’s position regarding the validity of the NDE phenomena stands in contrast to most other near death experience researchers he
continues to push forward. His AWARE Project asks cardiac arrest patients who experience a NDE to recall hidden pictures placed above their bed.
This methodology has been criticized by NDE experts who give it little chance of yielding positive results. Dr. Parnia responds, “I don’t know if
[the tests will] be successful or not. That’s an important point to make. As I said, I don’t have a particular stance. It’s possible that these
experiences are simply illusionary and it’s possible that they’re real.
I would like to outline two aspects:
#1: The method he used to check whether OBE is real, is a picture placed obove the bed. That is one possibility to check but this is based on the
fact, that he does not know how an OBE is experienced. What he is assuming is: when there is an OBE than the person must see that picture.
I can tell you from my own experience: yes that is possible. BUT this is just one option. What a person can see during an OBE is depending on the
focus of the consciousness of the person experiencing an OBE.
Imagine the following: One scientest will check whether you're able to see. He puts a picture on a ceiling and then he sends you into the room he
prepared before with the picture. You walk around, look at the walls and then you will leave the room. The scientist asks you whether you have seen
the picture. You will answer: No. The outcome is: You're not able to see.
Sure, that is an example but this exactly happens with this kind of approach.
When a person leaves the physical body then the focus of your thoughts, of your consciousness, might be total different to this what a scientist
thinks where the focus should be. That is more important if there is an accident for example, where the person experiencing an OBE is very confused.
The person might be more interested in things happening to its physical body than to have the idea watching for a picture on the ceiling. Why should
the person do this?
The other point is: It is not true at all that a person have to hover over its body during an OBE. That could be but that is not a precondition for
having an OBE. So you can leave your body in different directions.
(All this i have experienced by myself)
#2: The other aspect i would like to address are NDEs. NDEs very often include descriptions of OBEs. In Europe there is a very strong movement by
scientists to find an explanation for this. One of the most famous scientists in this area is Pim van Lommel, a cardiologist from Netherlands. An
other medical specialist is Dr. Michael Schröter-Kunhardt who leads the German section of IANDS, which is the "International Association for
Near-Death studies." of University of Heidelberg. His analysis showed that OBEs are experienced during a NDE by 61% of the people.
Back to Mr. van Lommel:
What he found out is that NDEs and the aspects experienced during the NDE including OBEs can not be explained by physical and mental particularities
The point with OBEs and paranormal events in general is the barrier which exists for scientists which are addicted (in positive sense) to the
materialistic form of science where more and more scientists which have some knowledge in quantum physics move to an idealistic form of science.
Representatives of the idealistic science is Amit Goswami (quantum physicist, "Institut of Theoretical Science", University of Oregon), Hans-Peter
Dürr (former . of "Max-Planck Institute for physics" in Munich) or Jeremy Hayward, british nuclear physicist and molecular biologist, "University
of Cambridge", to name a few.
And also Pim van Lommel recognized that we need to accept that the explanation for NDE and its aspects can be only explained by transcendental
rudiments (which is heavily discussed in quantum philosphy and physics).
I do not know any scientific proof that OBEs or NDEs are disproved.
edit on 29/5/2012 by Alfred2012 because: syntax correction