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Originally posted by Erbal
Are you saying: (1)Salvation is the act, the state, or the source of being protected from risk or harm. (2)Salvation is the deliverance from the penalty of sin.
Originally posted by Erbal
reply to post by KSigMason
Listen, I'm not dismissing anything you guys are willing to say, especially not things I suspect are intentionally misleading (dishonest). And 1 dishonest part doesn't make the whole post, or poster, dishonest.
I didn't mean to imply you guys are martyrs or will become immortal through a rebirth. I'm simply under the impression you are taught there is a celestial grand lodge that you (or your soul if you think that's not "you", perse) will be a part of if, and only if, your mortal life is lived a certain way which is different for each individual. So in essence, you consider the loss of your life to be incredibly positive if you earned a place in the grand lodge in the sky, or whatever it's called, through your life work.
So what I don't understand, among many many other things, is how you guys consider Freemasonry to not be a religion that certainly does not involve religious salvation of any kind. Sure, traditional religions have a universal and clearly defined doctrine complete with requirements for salvation, and this may seem like a promise compared to Freemasonry. That is because Freemasonry has a less clearly defined doctrine that only vaguely teaches a basic structure and path to the requirements for salvation that are unique to each individual person that is between the individual and their God.
Originally posted by Erbal
I read your posts and I see a lot of truth mixed with so many manipulated and twisted details that it will take a huge wall of text to address them all.
Originally posted by Erbal
Have you considered I was NOT referring to you when I made the comments you are now responding to?
You told me it's not even discussed. Well, how can I agree or disagree with what you tell me is or is not discussed in a private setting that I am not a witness to?
No, I did not refer to Masons in general. Masons in general would extend beyond these forums. When I said "You guys are good. I read your posts..." it clearly indicates I am being vaguely specific and not general. That suggests you can be included, it is not clear you are included. All I'm asking is you don't make assumptions and jump to aggressive conclusions without ever asking for clarification, that's not intelligent discourse and I'm sure you would not appreciate me doing the same to you.
Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus
Originally posted by Erbal
Have you considered I was NOT referring to you when I made the comments you are now responding to?
No, because you refered to Masons in general and did not use the quote button or repl button as you should have done (and which you did use in this post).
You told me it's not even discussed. Well, how can I agree or disagree with what you tell me is or is not discussed in a private setting that I am not a witness to?
Masonic ritual has been published for over three hundred years and is available online. Read it and tell me where the salavation occurs.
has your experience taught you official global policy does or does not have precedent over individual opinions that conflict with official global policy?
In other words, even if you did think it was a religion, would you tell me in this public setting?
Originally posted by Erbal
When I said "You guys are good. I read your posts..." it clearly indicates I am being vaguely specific and not general. That suggests you can be included...
I will get back to you with some examples of salvation.
Originally posted by Erbal
reply to post by network dude
Are you implying Masons have no agenda?
What are you implying is my agenda? Truth? Understanding? I'll gladly accept that kind of accusation. If you are implying I have some other agenda, I am interested to hear how that opinion is not baseless conjecture.