Exposing Freemasons & 33 - Geometry,Astrology, or Devil Worship?

Originally posted by EndlessFire
Got a question for the masons, who(other than females) do the mason not let in their group(for lack of a better word)? I mean do you guys say 'no muslims, pagans, mexicans, queers', is there any one group of people that are routinely not allowed membership to the Freemasons?

PS: How the hell do you flag this thing? (so very new to posting on ATS)

edit on 18-8-2012 by EndlessFire because: (no reason given)

In order to join regular masonry you must be a man, free born, or good report, and well recommended. You must not be a felon. Other than that, you must come to freemasonry of your own free will. We don't concern a mans external appearance, only his internal.

What it boils down to is you have to be a good person, over 18/21 (depending on jurisdiction), not a criminal, and you have to want to be a mason. No other things should come into play.

Upper left hand corner, click "flag"

reply to post by EndlessFire
Specifically no women, young men under 18 or 21, men who are in old age, atheists, mad men, or fools in regular Freemasonry.

So by the two answers I've been given, freemasons sound alot more tolerant and open minded than any church I've heard of or been in. Why, when such evidence has been presented, would I, as someone who knows very little of either group, think freemasons are evil and church goers are good? And just because someone doesn't adhere to the 'main' religions doesn't make them evil. If any of you actually studied the least little bit about anything other than your own religion you might be surprised.

Do you what sounds really horrible? A ritualistic ceremony that mimics drinking blood and eating human flesh, like the christians drinking 'wine' and eating 'bread'( and that's usually grape juice and crackers). Before you get down on someone else's religion you need to take a look at your own.

Originally posted by EndlessFire
So by the two answers I've been given, freemasons sound alot more tolerant and open minded than any church I've heard of or been in. Why, when such evidence has been presented, would I, as someone who knows very little of either group, think freemasons are evil and church goers are good? And just because someone doesn't adhere to the 'main' religions doesn't make them evil. If any of you actually studied the least little bit about anything other than your own religion you might be surprised.

Do you what sounds really horrible? A ritualistic ceremony that mimics drinking blood and eating human flesh, like the christians drinking 'wine' and eating 'bread'( and that's usually grape juice and crackers). Before you get down on someone else's religion you need to take a look at your own.

Freemasonry is the mega church of all churches. They pose as a religion, claim to accept anyone from any religious background and then rob them of their humanity. They created and dictate all religions and they know, they dont know the origins to life. Theyre a bunch of pirates and they will walk the plank one day.

reply to post by EddieBee


Arrg Matey! Yer right, we don't know the origins of life or any other great mysteries. But yer just plain lost when on the religion thing. Here is a link that you will ignore, but others will read and know how silly a person you really are.

God Bless you Eddie Bee!

reply to post by EddieBee

Theyre a bunch of pirates and they will walk the plank one day.

Considering that God only judges people based on the knowledge that one has and overlooks decisions based on lack of complete information, how can you judge a whole group of people condemning them without knowing their story and what they know. It is a very bad idea to speak for God telling them effectively that His judgement will turn out to be a rejection of them when you don't have complete knowledge as well.

Have you ever thought that being a false witness to God and misrepresenting His character might land you in some serious hot water too!

Originally posted by EddieBee
Freemasonry is the mega church of all churches.

Wrong

Originally posted by EddieBee
They pose as a religion,

Wrong

Originally posted by EddieBee
claim to accept anyone from any religious background

Correct (actually monotheistic ones to clarify)

Originally posted by EddieBee
and then rob them of their humanity.

Wrong

Originally posted by EddieBee
They created and dictate all religions

Wrong

Originally posted by EddieBee
and they know, they dont know the origins to life.

Wrong insomuch as no man can KNOW the origins of life

Originally posted by EddieBee
Theyre a bunch of pirates and they will walk the plank one day.

Fitz

Originally posted by JesuitGarlic
reply to post by EddieBee

 

Theyre a bunch of pirates and they will walk the plank one day.

Considering that God only judges people based on the knowledge that one has and overlooks decisions based on lack of complete information, how can you judge a whole group of people condemning them without knowing their story and what they know. It is a very bad idea to speak for God telling them effectively that His judgement will turn out to be a rejection of them when you don't have complete knowledge as well.

It's the story of man's history that certain individuals have claimed to know the Creator's mind and speak for Him since the beginning of recorded history. There's a word for this:

Hubris

Fitz

reply to post by EddieBee

If we're such "mega church", how many Freemasons do you know going door to door?

We don't pose as a religion. We pose as a fraternity, nothing more. We espouse personal integrity, political freedom, and religious tolerance -- we're obviously not for everyone. We don't rob anyone of their humanity, that's just stupid nor have we created any religions. That's just stupid.

Originally posted by KSigMason
reply to post by EddieBee

 

We espouse religious tolerance

Perhaps for your brothers but I've noticed a lot of Judeo-Christian intolerance from self-proclaimed Masons hanging around here. Usually it comes after some Lucifer worship finger-pointing... not a great excuse imo but it makes sense.

Originally posted by KSigMason
reply to post by FriedBabelBroccoli

 

It depends on what body of Freemasonry you're wanting to research. I'll have to go get my list of books to read, but right off the bat, I'd say read Brent Morris or Chris Hodapp.

Specifically the evolution of the symbols. Already have the David Ovason text, currently trying to get a decent copy of the Zelator without pursuing any illegitimate means. I am not listing what I have read so as hopefully extract an unbiased list which may contain subjects I have overlooked.
Thank you for the suggestions everyone.

And W3arelied2;
I have already cleared the big box bookstores some time ago and found their literature too obtuse for any serious use.

Also looking for anything that runs along lines similar to this train of thought;
Secrets in plain sight


Interesting suggestion from the video shows (first 5 minutes) the national head of Scottish Right located in the eye of the pyramid when aligned with several key points of Washington D.C.

Originally posted by Erbal

Originally posted by KSigMason
reply to post by EddieBee

 

We espouse religious tolerance

Perhaps for your brothers but I've noticed a lot of Judeo-Christian intolerance from self-proclaimed Masons hanging around here. Usually it comes after some Lucifer worship finger-pointing... not a great excuse imo but it makes sense.

It may seem that way, but interestingly enough, some Christian masons don't agree with this sect of Christians who have been brainwashed into believing that since we are masons, we cannot possibly believe in the same God they do. When we first started to nicely explain the error of their ways, they were blinded by stupidity and brought out Lucifer, Satan, and Balphomet to help them with their cult leaders directive.

reply to post by Erbal

I am intolerant of the intolerant. My distaste isn't that they are of the Judeo-Christian faith, but rather they are espousing militant, bigoted, and ignorant information to suit their agenda. Many so called "christians" have taken the Christ out of Christianity.

I don't show up to the party hostile, I usually greet any conspiracy or question with neutral feelings, but it is when they call me a liar (and much, much worse) that I show any intolerance and give my opinion of that.

reply to post by FriedBabelBroccoli

Well if you're looking at Masonic symbols, I'd check out the Masonic Lewis website as they have a several books on the symbolism of Freemasonry. There isn't a comprehensive, singular book on the York Rite and its symbolism...yet.

I'm currently not able to watch the video, but later when I get home I'll check it out.

Hey, you guys are human, you can get annoyed and frustrated just like every other human who has lived. I can't say what I would do after I heard the 1000th person tell me what my personal beliefs are or they paint my brotherhood as something religiously negative with what I believed to be unfounded confidence. But I can give you my outside perspective when I see religious intolerance met with feigned religious intolerance to piss off the original person who pissed you guys off: It looks exactly like religious intolerance. I can only assume it looks like validation to the original person who tried to force you into their definitions and labels.

That's just my unsolicited perspective, for what it's worth.

reply to post by network dude


BS!

one man cannot speak for another. can one mason speak for another mans INTERPRETATION?

i know what Pike would say about it.

Originally posted by rainbowbear
reply to post by network dude

 

BS!

one man cannot speak for another. can one mason speak for another mans INTERPRETATION?

i know what Pike would say about it.

The ancient symbols and allegories always had more than one interpretation. They always had a double meaning, and sometimes more than two, one serving as the envelope of the other.

Morals & Dogma, Ch. XIII, p205

EACH of us makes such applications to his own faith and creed, of the symbols and ceremonies of this Degree, as seems to him proper. With these special interpretations we have here nothing to do. Like the legend of the Master Khu_ru_m, in which some see figured the condemnation and sufferings of Christ; others those of the unfortunate Grand Master of the Templars; others those of the first Charles, King of England; and others still the annual descent of the Sun at the winter Solstice to the regions of darkness, the basis of many an ancient legend; so the ceremonies of this Degree receive different explanations; each interpreting them for himself, and being offended at the interpretation of no other.

ibid, Ch. XVIII, p 277

If, anywhere, brethren of a particular religious belief have been excluded from this Degree, it merely shows how gravely the purposes and plan of Masonry may be misunderstood. For whenever the door of any Degree is closed against him who believes in one God and the soul's immortality, on account of the other tenets of his faith, that Degree is Masonry no longer. No Mason has the right to interpret the symbols of this Degree for another, or to refuse him its mysteries, if he will not take them with the explanation and commentary superadded.

Listen, my brother, to our explanation of the symbols of the Degree, and then give them such further interpretation as you think fit.

ibid, p 291

reply to post by rainbowbear

Masonry is not a religion. He who makes of it a religious belief, falsifies and denaturalizes it. The Brahmin, the Jew, the Mahometan, the Catholic, the Protestant, each professing his peculiar religion, sanctioned by the laws, by time, and by climate, must needs retain it, and cannot have two religions; for the social and sacred laws adapted to the usages, manners, and prejudices of particular countries, are the work of men.

But Masonry teaches, and has preserved in their purity, the cardinal tenets of the old primitive faith, which underlie and are the foundation of all religions. All that ever existed have had a basis of truth; and all have overlaid that truth with errors. The primitive truths taught by the Redeemer were sooner corrupted, and intermingled and alloyed with fictions than when taught to the first of our race. Masonry is the universal morality which is suitable to the inhabitants of every clime, to the man of every creed. It has taught no doctrines, except those truths that tend directly to the well-being of man; and those who have attempted to direct it toward useless vengeance, political ends, and Jesuitism, have merely perverted it to purposes foreign to its pure spirit and real nature.

Morals & Dogma, Ch. X, p162

reply to post by AlbertPike


I interpret this to mean that is is possible for freemasonry to be considered a religion to some masons.

thats why the dialog in this thread to me seems a little funny.

I know much less than i thought and i thought a lot less about freemasonry now than I did before.

These threads seem to have the most value of all the other topics on this forum.

reply to post by rainbowbear

We do not undervalue the importance of any Truth. We utter no word that can be deemed irreverent by any one of any faith. We do not tell the Moslem that it is only important for him to believe that there is but one God, and wholly unessential whether Mahomet was His prophet. We do not tell the Hebrew that the Messiah whom he expects was born in Bethlehem nearly two thousand years ago; and that he is a heretic because he will not so believe. And as little do we tell the sincere Christian that Jesus of Nazareth was but a man like us, or His history but the unreal revival of an older legend. To do either is beyond our jurisdiction. Masonry, of no one age, belongs to all time; of no one religion, it finds its great truths in all.

To every Mason, there is a GOD; ONE, Supreme, Infinite in Goodness, Wisdom, Foresight, Justice, and Benevolence; Creator, Disposer, and Preserver of all things. How, or by what intermediates He creates and acts, and in what way He unfolds and manifests Himself, Masonry leaves to creeds and Religions to inquire.

To every Mason, the soul of man is immortal. Whether it emanates from and will return to God, and what its continued mode of existence hereafter, each judges for himself. Masonry was not made to settle that.

ibid, Ch. XXVI, p 525

If the definition of what constitutes a religion is subjective, wouldn't the discussion of whether or not Masonry is a religion also be subjective in nature?