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Notre Dame files Lawsuit against Kathleen Sebelius, DHSS & Timothy Geithner, US Treasury, Dept. Labo

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posted on May, 23 2012 @ 05:55 AM
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Originally posted by The Sword
If they don't like it, then the government should revoke their tax-exempt status!

So anyone who wants to practice freedom of religion - as promised to them in the US Constitution - should just shut up and suck it up? They should just allow themselves to be abused simply because YOU don't agree with their religious beliefs, eh? How 'tolerant' ...
Eventually they will be coming for YOU .. don't forget that you backed the gov't when they came for the others ...

(paraphrase)
First they came for the blacks, but I wasn't black so I did nothing.
Then they came for the Jews, but I wasn't Jewish so I did nothing.
Then they came for the Catholics, but I wasn't Catholic so I did nothing.
Then they came for me, but there was no one left to help defend me .....


No one gets a free ride!

and yet I'd bet you are supporting the nanny-state that Obama is pushing ...




posted on May, 23 2012 @ 05:58 AM
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Originally posted by buster2010
Where has the government violated the constitution? These people are still able to freely practice their religion. .

No they would not be.

Their religion says that not only are they not allowed to practice artificial birth control or abortion, but they are not to engage in any activities that help others to do so. It's considered a 'mortal sin' by their church to even so much as help another person to practice artificial birth control. So the government is indeed overstepping by forcing Catholic Church outreaches (catholic church hospitals, schools) to go against their religious beliefs.



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 06:03 AM
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Originally posted by Viesczy
you can't force your beliefs upon your employees, so shut your yap


1 - YOU are forcing YOUR beliefs onto the Catholics. They have a right to believe what they wish.

2 - The Catholics aren't 'forcing their beliefs' onto anyone. People are free to attend/work at Notre Dame or leave as they see fit. If they don't like it .. they know where the door is.

3 - Common sense. If you work for a Jewish Deli, you don't expect to see bacon on the menu. If you work for a Catholic Church outreach, you do not expect to have them hand you free birth control and abortions. If you expect it .. then you are an idiot.


Again no one is saying you cannot practice the lie so go put put the robes on, say the latin voodoo lines, and get all cannibal with the body of the zombie.

Oh ... I guess that explains why you have the position you do ... why you think it's okay for the government to overstep and take away the first amendment rights of tens of millions of Americans you disagree with. So 'tolerant'. Lovely.



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 06:07 AM
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Originally posted by Danbones
The thought that religious dogma trumps democratic process is perhaps the most horrendous thing that can happen in responsible governance.


The democratic process PROTECTS the rights of Catholics to practice their faith and to run their church outreaches in a manner consistant with that faith. You may not agree with their faith .. but under the CONSTITUTION and the 'democratic process' ... they have that right promised. If you take away their right to freedom of religion and freedom to run their religious outreaches in a manner consistant with their religion .. then YOU have destroyed the democratic process and the Constitutional rights of tens of millions of Americans.



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 08:48 AM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 


Flyers Fan- Thank you for bringing back sanity to this thread. I wish more members would be tolerant of people's religion. I truly worry about the future of this country. We seem to be heading to Big Brother quite rapidly.
Peace, and thank you for your usual common sense.



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 08:51 AM
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reply to post by Danbones
 

So, because one deranged minister makes a horrendous comment, you are willing to blame ALL people who adhere to a religious belief? Interesting.
Kindly get real.
Peace.



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 10:06 AM
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Originally posted by ProfEmeritus
reply to post by Danbones
 

So, because one deranged minister makes a horrendous comment, you are willing to blame ALL people who adhere to a religious belief? Interesting.
Kindly get real.
Peace.

over 38000 christian sects, dogmas, and gods, all claiming to be the true religion
prove you believe in something that is actually real

Hitler was a christian.
edit on 23-5-2012 by Danbones because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 10:12 AM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by Danbones
The thought that religious dogma trumps democratic process is perhaps the most horrendous thing that can happen in responsible governance.


The democratic process PROTECTS the rights of Catholics to practice their faith and to run their church outreaches in a manner consistant with that faith. You may not agree with their faith .. but under the CONSTITUTION and the 'democratic process' ... they have that right promised. If you take away their right to freedom of religion and freedom to run their religious outreaches in a manner consistant with their religion .. then YOU have destroyed the democratic process and the Constitutional rights of tens of millions of Americans.


I actually agree with you
do the catholics have the right to not extend that courtesy to others in the same political system?
no

the churches all drank the kool aid of government largess, now the piper shows up to be paid.

has god made a statement of his opinion ?
you would think he'ed have something to say

edit on 23-5-2012 by Danbones because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 10:59 AM
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has god made a statement of his opinion ?
reply to post by Danbones
 

Actually,yes, God speaks to those that are willing to listen.
Obviously, you wish not to hear.

You really should drop the anger. It is hurting your health.
I will pray for you.
Peace.



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 11:01 AM
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Originally posted by Danbones
do the catholics have the right to not extend that courtesy to others in the same political system?

To force a person to go against their faith isn't 'extending a courtesy'.
It's just making them go against their faith. And that's wrong no matter what that faith is.

Originally posted by Danbones
has god made a statement of his opinion ?

Ohhhhh ... don't get me started on God. Not today.
ATS Thread (from 2010) - Is God A Dead Beat Dad?
It's kinda like Lord of the Flies down here. We kids were made but then the 'grown up' left.



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 11:02 AM
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Hitler was a christian.
reply to post by Danbones
 

There you go again. What does Hitler have to do with anything?
I am sure that there are many atheists that were horrible. Does that mean all atheists are bad? I think not.
You really need to take a logic course. It may help you.

Here is one for you.
99% of accident victims were wearing clothes.
Therefore, according to your logic, drive nude to avoid being an accident victim.



posted on May, 25 2012 @ 05:09 AM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 


but the constitution is there to protect primarily individual's rights, not institutions!!

so if you are saying that the institutions should not have to be involved in any insurance that covers birth control, then you have to agree that no individual should have to be involved in any insurance that does so also, am I right???

so, well, then, there goes family planning, there goes the coverage I get under my insurance plan, since there are some who are participating in it that probably don't want it covered on a religious basis. there goes medicaid, and well, thank you small portion of the american population who don't like birth control, now all women can pay out of pocket, or extra for their insurance, because they are women who want to control how many kids they have, or just want to stabalize their monthly cycle...

there is no way around the fact that someone's rights are gonna be stepped on with this one!!! sounds like we are at an impass with no solution but one...

get the danged cost of living down and the wages high enough so that a high percentage of people can live without gov't help or the insurance!! otherwise, like it or not, people are gonna be having their rights stripped from them, this time it might be this group over here, but the next time it might be a group you might be in. and sometimes, it might be a life or death matter.

right now, I have a coworker who's girlfriends daughter is being told that if she gets pregnant again, she will most likely die, but they don't want to do anything to prevent such an occurance, since she is only in her 20's...
some of yous woud rather she die than having a little of you money end up going for a birth control pill that would prevent her from getting pregnant.
there are many, many women out there, who because of health problems are taking mediciation that would permanently disable the fetus before they are born, and you would rather have these babies concieved and born, suffer, and possibly die, than to take the chance of a little bit of money going and paying for a little pill that might prevent her from getting pregnant to begin with??

where's the sanity??/



posted on May, 27 2012 @ 03:05 AM
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Originally posted by buster2010

Originally posted by ProfEmeritus
reply to post by The Sword
 


The tax exempt status has NOTHING to do with the fact that the government has violated the Constitution. Either address the issue, which is the violation of the Constitution, or go to some other thread, where you can bash religions.



Where has the government violated the constitution? These people are still able to freely practice their religion. Now the question should be why are religions allowed to strip people of their right to the freedom of choice?

And The Sword is right if religions want to be involved in politics then they should lose their tax free status.


They are not free to practice their religion. The only entity with rights stripped is Notre Dame. They are forced to violate their conscience. Those working there are free to do whatever they want still, ND is not removing their rights. Try again.



posted on May, 27 2012 @ 03:12 AM
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Originally posted by cetaphobic
One of the questions at an interview for a phamacy should be "would you be willing to sell the birth control we offer". Because if not, then you're unwilling to do your job.


One of the questions at an interview for a phamacy should be "would you be willing to buy birth control for the customer".

See the difference? ND is being told to buy it for the customer.



posted on May, 27 2012 @ 03:13 AM
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Originally posted by grey580
If someone isn't catholic and works for the school.
Shouldn't they be allowed those benefits if they worship for example the flying spaghetti monster?


They are welcome to work at ND and buy and use birth control, ND just doesn't want to buy it for them. No right is denied them.



posted on May, 27 2012 @ 03:18 AM
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Originally posted by Danbones

Originally posted by ProfEmeritus
reply to post by Danbones
 

So, because one deranged minister makes a horrendous comment, you are willing to blame ALL people who adhere to a religious belief? Interesting.
Kindly get real.
Peace.

over 38000 christian sects, dogmas, and gods, all claiming to be the true religion
prove you believe in something that is actually real

Hitler was a christian.
edit on 23-5-2012 by Danbones because: (no reason given)


That's the wonderful thing about the Constitution, I don't have to. Maybe you think it should just be trampled on?

How about you don't tell me what to believe, and I won't tell you.



posted on May, 27 2012 @ 03:24 AM
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Originally posted by dawnstar
reply to post by FlyersFan
 

so if you are saying that the institutions should not have to be involved in any insurance that covers birth control, then you have to agree that no individual should have to be involved in any insurance that does so also, am I right???


You went off on a meaningless tangent, not sure why. The answer is simple, yes, you as a person should not be FORCED to pay for birth control. Do you think a person should be FORCED to pay for something?

Do you think the Government has the right to FORCE birth control on you?

If you want to only deal with an insurance company that does not offer birth control you should be able to do so. Or do you disagree and think you should be forced to give money to a PRIVATE company that goes against your moral/religious beliefs?

I didn't bother reading any of the meaningless crap you posted after what I quoted, there's no point. But I think this will answer it.

Mat 22:21 "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God what is God's."
edit on 27-5-2012 by OccamsRazor04 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 27 2012 @ 05:57 AM
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reply to post by OccamsRazor04
 


then, if I don't believe in heart transplants, there should be an insurance option where I don't have to participate in coverage for it??

or blood transfusions....
viagra??
anti-depressants, anti-anxiety, and the rest of the mental health crap, which, hey guess what!! I do have a problem with them....sonograms for the unborn- poses risk to the developing fetus. medicines for high blood pressure, low blood pressure, diabetes, cancer, whatever.....
kind of would make life a little confusing for the medical and insurance agencies, wouldn't it??

hey, I don't believe in the healthcare system as it is now, I shouldn't be taxed for any of it and shouldn't be required to buy any insurance...

but since I don't have a major religion backing up my beliefs, I can sit back and tolerate it!!!

guess what....
and this is real....
I don't believe in eliminating such an important segment of healthcare as birth control from the insurance plans, I don't believe in women having to pay more for that need than you would for any of your medical needs. and based on that belief, I shouldn't have to participate in any plan that doesn't include that as a need!!! so, if all my options (that are realistic according to my budget) don't include it, well, guess I'm off scott free from their stupid mandate also!!!

obama care needs to go!! Notre Dame doesn't need a waiver to get out of a law that everyone else is supposed to be abiding to....
and the religious right needs to stop trying to force women to have babies!!!

religious beliefs in a nutshell:

women are to obey their husbands...no saying no now, not even to the sexual demands made!!!
women shouldn't be working, unless of course, the husband wants her to be working, then she should be working for peanuts, so she is still dependent on the man...
if women wants birth control, she should go ask her husband for permission, and then request the money to go buy said birth control....
if the money isn't given, or if the birth control doesn't work, well, abortion is not an option....
and of course, if she dies, no matter, that is what God created her for anyways, to bring children into the world.....

they attack abortion, they attack birth control and try to strip it from the government programs and our health insurance, they don't like the idea of equal pay for equal work, na women should be paid pennies on the dollar...
don't like child support, don't like divorce, and you can't go to church regularly for three months without hearing a good sermon on how you should be obeying you hubby in all things, even those things that you know he's wrong on, that you may end up suffering from, nope, just obey them, get pregnant, have kids, and then more kids, so we can send them off our wars to be killed or exploited in our businesses so we can become rich! Come on women!! you need to have kids, the whites in this country are becoming the minority!!!



posted on May, 27 2012 @ 06:38 AM
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Originally posted by dawnstar
but the constitution is there to protect primarily individual's rights, not institutions!!

The individuals who have chosen to have Catholicism as their faith have a right to practice that faith. And that faith includes them NOT participating, in any manner, with artificial birth control or abortion. That includes not helping others to get them.


so if you are saying that the institutions should not have to be involved in any insurance that covers birth control, then you have to agree that no individual should have to be involved in any insurance that does so also, am I right???

You'll have to re-word that. I can't follow you ....



posted on May, 27 2012 @ 06:39 AM
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Where has the government violated the constitution? These people are still able to freely practice their religion. Now the question should be why are religions allowed to strip people of their right to the freedom of choice?

And The Sword is right if religions want to be involved in politics then they should lose their tax free status.


People know the University is affiliated with the Catholic church before enrolling or applying for a job. How would anyone expect a organization with religious affiliation expect them to go against their core beliefs? These people do have freedom of choice. They choose to enroll or work for this university. Therefore, they should know beforehand what is expected if they attend or work there. They can choose to work or enroll somewhere else. They do not have a right to work there.

The constitution speaks specifically about people having the right to practice a religion not a right to healthcare. The founders knew that the government should not have a role in core individual decisions because they saw what happened under the British government. They wanted everyone to have the right to practice religion without reprisal from the government. Attending or working for this university is not a right. It is a privilege. Just like driving a car is a privilege not a right.

I think that all churches need their 401c3 status removed too. If they did that, then the government wouldn't have their hooks into them. They would be able to preach about whatever they wanted without worrying about the IRS "knocking" on their door. That would be the best thing that ever happened to churches in the U.S. I encourage and support the revoking of the 401c3 status.



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