A thread designed to prove or disprove God once and for all.

Originally posted by LesMisanthrope

Originally posted by R0CR13
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reply to post by LesMisanthrope

 

How is it collective ?

Because All Energy is part of the fabric of the universe .

So everything is conscious? I cannot fathom the idea. I cannot feel what a rock feels. Consciousness isn't built into the fabric of the universe; it's a product of our own body. There are infinite amounts of energy in the sun, but no consciousness, no life. Energy is energy. It's not consciousness, life, awareness, brains or anything like that. How do we deceive ourselves into thinking otherwise?

Everything is consciousness. If it weren't that way, inanimate matter would have no possibility of becoming an animate life form.

"Which came first, (A) the concept of survival, or (B) the physical mechanisms of survival?"

If you answered (A), then answer, "How is there a concept of survival before the first life form existed to be able to conceptualize?"

If you answered (B), then answer, "Why would the first life form emerge with survival mechanisms, if there wasn't a prior need to survive?"

My answer is (A). Btw, no one else answered any of these questions. You all are effectively off-topic.

There is a concept of survival because there is a need for life forms prior to their emergence. The sun is more than just a big ball of light in the sky undergoing fusion. It has a living quality. It's living quality expressed itself on Earth through diverse life forms. Prior to our emergence, its quality was undefined. It didn't know what it was, just that it was. Consciousness is that which knows that it is but not necessarily what it is.

Through light, which contains the living quality of our sun, the Earth was transformed into the expression of its star's living quality so that consciousness became intelligence in an effort to understand life.

The whole reason for your existence is to learn about existence. That was the need for our emergence. Consciousness, if you look around, you can see is an infinite thing. There's no limit to what it can express itself as. It shouldn't be a surprise that its even contained in what you would call "inanimate matter".

Living intelligent forms are the only ones who can define the universe. That was the reason we came to be. There was a reason. The fact that there was a reason heavily implies that there was an intelligent factor that led to our emergence. The fact that we even exist even moreso heavily implies that there was an intelligent factor that led to our emergence.

In an inanimate universe, life cannot spontaneously emerge. Life has to be something that is neither created nor destroyed. Life can't and never has been witnessed, nor scientifically validated, to come form non-life.

Originally posted by LesMisanthrope

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by LesMisanthrope

 

I assume that this is no different that a dream, everything is made of dream. I see the dream, i 'know' that i am conscious with 100% certainty, i do not 'know' for sure if anyone/thing else is.

I don't see how that's possible. I am conscious. When I die, will you still exist?

In this dream you will see babies being born (appearances) and you will see people die and be buried (disappearances). You see and hear (experience) appearances and disappearances continually but you are the one thing that is never appears or disappears.

You have asked me if i will still exist when you die. Well, in reality i don't exist now to you, only words are seen in front of you and you have imagined a person (an extended dream world has been created in your mind).
I don't believe in death, i believe that you carry on dreaming for eternity. The dream image is always moving and changing but what i am never moves or changes.

reply to post by smithjustinb


To me survival is a dirty word. It is a lie!! You are taught about struggle and survial, Darwin helped with that, and it produces fear. The human condition is fear, which manifests as anger, fight or flight response, blame, victims and bullies.

You are the witness of the image appearing. You are hearing, seeing, tasting, touching, sensing - you are knowing and you know you are. You are knowing the thoughts as they arise, you are knowing the pc monitor, you are knowing the chair, you might be knowing the silence also.
You are knowing, the present as it appears is seen.
There is nothing else.
Survival is not required, it is harder to die than to live.

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reply to post by LesMisanthrope


Wrong !

Everything is energy

Consciousness exists because we recognize our own awareness Therefore ...

IT is part of the fabric of Everything ..


You can not deny or separate consciousness from the Whole .


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I'll admit this I do draw on my own personal experience to come to this conclusion .

I was DOA flat line for 15-20 minutes and had a very enlightening experience .

So I'll just say what I believe to be the Truth .

Consciousness exists separate from the body .

We are spherical packets of energy with own set of experiences going back to our beginning .

We are made up of substance derived from the greater field that both envelopes all that is but is also the core of all that is .

Everything is Consciousness just not on the same frequency as you or I .

Consciousness directed all that is and is the primary motivating force in the universe as a whole .

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Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by smithjustinb

 

To me survival is a dirty word. It is a lie!! You are taught about struggle and survial, Darwin helped with that, and it produces fear. The human condition is fear, which manifests as anger, fight or flight response, blame, victims and bullies.

Survival, as most people think of it, is a dirty word. But in actuality, survival is a two edged sword, like anything else that stems from truth. Yes there are elements of fear when talking about survival, but love is also a survival mechanism. Survival mechanisms can be defined as, "that which allows a species to keep living." Everything about us is a survival mechanism. Everything that we do, that is meaningful, is a survival effort. The human condition isn't fear, it is survival. There's a difference. Survival implies that life is worth living. Otherwise, why would we try so hard to survive? Sure there is a fear of death, but that fear of death exists because there is a love of life. We're scared to die because we don't want to quit living.

I know what you're thinking. "We're eternal. Fear is irrational." We may be eternal in some form, but you're only going to be itisnowagain once. And as long as you're itisnowagain here on Earth, you are participating in a survival effort, whether you like it or not.

If you think you are above survival, stop eating. Stop working. Stop going to the bathroom.

It is so easy for humans to think that they aren't playing a survival game because humans are so good at it, they don't even know they're playing.

If you don't think life is a struggle, you are delusional. Its how you deal with that struggle that makes you rise above it. It won't go away. But you can cope well, if you are wise. But it would be foolish to cope in such a way as to make yourself believe there isn't a struggle.

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
You are the witness of the image appearing. You are hearing, seeing, tasting, touching, sensing - you are knowing and you know you are. You are knowing the thoughts as they arise, you are knowing the pc monitor, you are knowing the chair, you might be knowing the silence also.
You are knowing, the present as it appears is seen.
There is nothing else.
Survival is not required, it is harder to die than to live.

The present appears and I see it and I am knowing it. I know I am hungry. I know if I'm going to keep seeing and knowing, I'm gonna have to go kill a cow.

reply to post by smithjustinb


Life lives. You cannot stop it. Try to stop breathing and you will see that you are not the one doing it.
The word survival is a belief in struggle, it makes competition acceptable, always wanting more.

How can one know love when one is frightened? Living a life in survival mode is dread full, i know, i remember it well.

reply to post by Watts

Bible says not to partake in idle debates.

Can u qoute the specific verse please?

One can't "prove" the existence of an infinitely all power being through discussion by and infinitely flawed organism.

I completely disagree. It is built into us to wonder, discuss, ask, and wrestle with this question. There were 2 philosophers named parminides and empodcles who said you can conclude the existence of God by logic and reason.

Text Were that not the case, faith wouldn't be a requisite of entrance into heaven.

Quote the verse please.

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by smithjustinb

 

Life lives. You cannot stop it. Try to stop breathing and you will see that you are not the one doing it.
The word survival is a belief in struggle, it makes competition acceptable, always wanting more.

How can one know love when one is frightened? Living a life in survival mode is dread full, i know, i remember it well.

edit on 23-5-2012 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)

If I try to stop breathing, I feel pain. Pain is an electrical signal in the brain responding to the location of pain. This feeling is my body telling me "Don't do that". Life developed the ability to recognize appropriate and inappropriate action for one reason and one reason only- to survive.

Survival is about competition, but also about cooperation. Both are acceptable and both come together to make us who we are.

The goal of life is to balance the positive and negative. Competition must be balanced with cooperation if you are going to advance. At the balance, a middle ground concept will be found that is neither competitive nor cooperative, but is also both. All dualistic concepts have a middle ground that is the truth. And the dualistic approach to that non-dual concept will be biased and false. All things must be accepted as true if they exist and to master existence, you must be unbiased.

If you have a bias, it is up to you to learn how to accept the opposite view as an appropriate view. At that point, you will be making an effort to balance your being into higher truth. Truth trumps all. It is unbiased. It is what it is.

reply to post by smithjustinb


You say everything must be accepted as true if it exists, but concepts are not true. Survival is a concept born out of the belief that you are separate from life.
All there is is this.
Life lives and you cannot stop it, because there is no 'you' that is separate from life.

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by smithjustinb

 

You say everything must be accepted as true if it exists, but concepts are not true. Survival is a concept born out of the belief that you are separate from life.
All there is is this.
Life lives and you cannot stop it, because there is no 'you' that is separate from life.

edit on 23-5-2012 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)

I agree. You can't stop life. But you can stop an individual's life.

I believe in eternity through unity as well. But I also believe in the individual's role he/she plays while being an individual. The individual is made to play the survival game. Survival is the number one cause for progress.