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A thread designed to prove or disprove God once and for all.

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posted on May, 21 2012 @ 01:14 PM
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reply to post by R0CR13
 


The most excellent thing about this hypothesis is that much of it can be proven.


What are all things we are aware of made up of? Atoms.

What are atoms made of? Protons Electrons Neutrons...they came together and converted energy into mass-atoms

Therefore all things are made of similar stuff.

Consciousness is not a by-product of the elements but the the elements are directed by consciousness as shown in the double slit experiment.

So consciousness is God, all that there is. All that there is, is possibility which is directed by will. Will is a funny thing on Earth because it is often directed by expectation which is usually based on experience. Fear or anger although negative can be as influential as desire here on Earth.

This is how the universe is shaped just as life is shaped. As above, so below.

First was conscious energy, then came mass. During the first second or so of the universe, according to the Big Bang theory, protons, neutrons and electrons - the building blocks of matter - formed when photons collided and converted their energy into mass.

That's my guess but who knows?

I obviously agree with you! I gave you some lovely stars and am grateful that you posted. In lak'ech ala k'in!

I should also add that due to our present experience and perception of separation and individuality our awareness and thus ability to shape our surroundings are somewhat limited in our present form. The will of others whom we ought not to control because they are part of us and our collective experience (but we often try to ) is also a consideration.

Class dismissed

edit on 21-5-2012 by Threegirls because: To add point

edit on 21-5-2012 by Threegirls because: same

edit on 21-5-2012 by Threegirls because: I made a boo boo




posted on May, 21 2012 @ 04:06 PM
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reply to post by smithjustinb
 


Nothing rises above its source. All matter flows from its source. Man is vastly more complex than the Earth, Sun or Moon. Our source is attributed to these bodies, yet consciousness is more complex and of a higher order than either of the bodies that fuel the organism. All things flow from their source. Since our source is obviously more complex than us, we can assume that any part of the system that feeds us cannot be our source. This is evidence number one.

Evidence number two comes by examining the current understanding of collapsing wave function. For the indeterminate wave of probability to be collapsed, a choice must be made by value. Good and Evil is a way of understanding this. Positive and negative is another. Polarity is another. Cohesion and adhesion is another. Matter is not independent of consciousness for this to be true. Consciousness and matter are codependent. One affects the other and each is necessary. Consciousness must occupy a body. A body must be occupied by consciousness to realize itself as different from other bodies and states. To collapse the indeterminate wave of probability, the states of matter must be subjected to consciousness first. Matter is energy and energy has been show to be information in transition. See the video below. Once we realize that energy is information, we now have a way to decipher what Genesis and other passages are saying.



Genesis 1:1-3

In the Beginning (Time), God created the heavens (Space) and the earth (Matter). Let there be light (Energy).

TIME, SPACE, MATTER and ENERGY

Genesis 1:27

1:27 So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.

Notice how this is stated two different ways. We are INSIDE the image created by God, a byproduct of TIME, SPACE, MATTER and ENERGY, and we are THE image of God. How are we the image?

First, how is the image created? The Image is created with WORD. Word is information. Energy is information.

JOHN 1

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome[a] it.

6 There was a man sent from God whose name was John. 7 He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all might believe. 8 He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light.

9 The true light that gives light to everyone was coming into the world. 10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God — 13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.

14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

This short passage gives us the rest of the story of how we are programmed by WORD (Information).

Information is unseen. Unless the information occupies a body as a symbol, we do not see it.

Hebrews 11:3

3 By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God’s command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible.

To answer the other part of the image, we need to look at the Trinity.

God is in three persons: Father, Son, Holy Spirit

We are the image of these three. Father is Light. Son is Word. Spirit is Consciousness. God projects himself into time with light, word and sentient information. We are the image of this projection. We are a body of particle and wave (Light is the duality of particle and wave) and we are also enlivened with consciousness. We are the image of God by the projection of the trinity in creation.

I'm just getting started. The rest of the evidence that the Bible is correct is linked in my signature.




edit on 21-5-2012 by EnochWasRight because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 21 2012 @ 04:10 PM
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how did the primordial soup create ;

the first cell with a membrane ?
the first nucleus ?
the first DNA molecule ?

magic ?

this has to be the worst way to try to argue there is no god, look at origins of life on earth

science has no explanation for it



posted on May, 21 2012 @ 04:15 PM
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Originally posted by syrinx high priest
how did the primordial soup create ;

the first cell with a membrane ?
the first nucleus ?
the first DNA molecule ?

magic ?

this has to be the worst way to try to argue there is no god, look at origins of life on earth

science has no explanation for it



All cells derive energy by a mechanical pump by a process called chemosmosis. As you point out, there is no explanation for how this irreducibly complex process come to be. Apart from a high degree of nano engineering, it is laughable to say that it just happened by matter acting on itself. Collapsing wave function denies this. It takes consciousness to collapse the indeterminate wave of probability.

Realize this: Science fails because it says light is a duality of particle and wave. It is not a duality. It is a trinity. Consciousness (Spirit) is the third part, which represent information that is sentient. God called himself the Great I AM. For science to deny the spirit in disbelief, which amounts to blasphemy against the Holy Spirit of God (Note my first post above on light). This is unforgivable. All other sins will be forgiven. Unbelief will be held against the person who denies what is obvious in nature. We are designed.

Notice the pump with stator. Cellular respiration is a mechanical process with a motor. The earliest cells would have needed this to survive.




edit on 21-5-2012 by EnochWasRight because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 21 2012 @ 04:18 PM
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Originally posted by syrinx high priest
science has no explanation for it

Just because we don't know how something was done (yet) does not automatically equate to "God did it," any more than "Aliens did it." Unless you equate God with "I don't know." Which is actually a pretty good equation. God is the emptiness beyond your knowledge, reason and logic.



posted on May, 21 2012 @ 04:24 PM
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Originally posted by Blue Shift

Originally posted by syrinx high priest
science has no explanation for it

Just because we don't know how something was done (yet) does not automatically equate to "God did it," any more than "Aliens did it." Unless you equate God with "I don't know." Which is actually a pretty good equation. God is the emptiness beyond your knowledge, reason and logic.


We do know how God did it. TIME, SPACE, MATTER, ENERGY, WORD (Information). It's clearly stated in the Bible. See my posts above. Science clearly restates it the same way. Both agree and match. That's called a proof in science.
edit on 21-5-2012 by EnochWasRight because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 21 2012 @ 04:39 PM
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Originally posted by R0CR13
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reply to post by LesMisanthrope
 


How is it collective ?

Because All Energy is part of the fabric of the universe .



So everything is conscious? I cannot fathom the idea. I cannot feel what a rock feels. Consciousness isn't built into the fabric of the universe; it's a product of our own body. There are infinite amounts of energy in the sun, but no consciousness, no life. Energy is energy. It's not consciousness, life, awareness, brains or anything like that. How do we deceive ourselves into thinking otherwise?



posted on May, 21 2012 @ 05:00 PM
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Originally posted by EnochWasRight

Originally posted by Blue Shift

Originally posted by syrinx high priest
science has no explanation for it

Just because we don't know how something was done (yet) does not automatically equate to "God did it," any more than "Aliens did it." Unless you equate God with "I don't know." Which is actually a pretty good equation. God is the emptiness beyond your knowledge, reason and logic.


We do know how God did it. TIME, SPACE, MATTER, ENERGY, WORD (Information). It's clearly stated in the Bible. See my posts above. Science clearly restates it the same way. Both agree and match. That's called a proof in science.
edit on 21-5-2012 by EnochWasRight because: (no reason given)

Just naming off a bunch of things isn't proof. There is no "how." As for the Bible, well... if it gives you comfort and keeps you from killing me, then fine. But there's no scientific method or proof going on in it. Science does not know how life forms from non-life, and the Bible just puts the word "God" into the same space as "I don't know."



posted on May, 21 2012 @ 05:19 PM
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Originally posted by LesMisanthrope

Originally posted by R0CR13
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reply to post by LesMisanthrope
 


How is it collective ?

Because All Energy is part of the fabric of the universe .



So everything is conscious? I cannot fathom the idea. I cannot feel what a rock feels. Consciousness isn't built into the fabric of the universe; it's a product of our own body. There are infinite amounts of energy in the sun, but no consciousness, no life. Energy is energy. It's not consciousness, life, awareness, brains or anything like that. How do we deceive ourselves into thinking otherwise?


You only need to know the excluded middle to see the larger picture. Energy is information in movement. Once we see this, then entropy in the universe is no different than the heat generated by our processors. Light is particle, wave and consciousness. The video below says it all. Read my previous posts in this thread.




posted on May, 21 2012 @ 05:20 PM
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reply to post by LesMisanthrope
 


My thought is that although not everything is conscious, everything is directed by consciousness. Different levels of consciousness. My cat is conscious but maybe not in the way that I am. He thinks he is smarter, I sometimes think so too.

In the same way we propel our bodies from one side of the room to another, some are able to control the processes of their body even down to direct healing at a cellular level.

You can pick up a cup, kick a ball, refine and form a piece of metal. This is our basic understanding of our effect on our surroundings. We seldom consider the effect our consciousness has on the environment and others.

The double slit experiment shows that the tiniest elements will behave as you expect them to but only whilst your consciousness is observing them.

I am not convinced that consciousness can only exist in a 'brain'. The brain is merely a processor, it processes electrical signals, energy. The brain is still exactly the same when a person dies but without the signals, what has changed? The energy has left the body, the composition is the same, the heart can just stop, it can sometimes be dragged back into the body and he/she is fine, sometimes the body can be brought back/resuscitated and not the person so it dies again.

It's a theory I like. I can't settle on a belief just yet though, so much to learn still.
edit on 21-5-2012 by Threegirls because: typo



posted on May, 21 2012 @ 06:09 PM
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Originally posted by Threegirls
reply to post by LesMisanthrope
 


My thought is that although not everything is conscious, everything is directed by consciousness. Different levels of consciousness. My cat is conscious but maybe not in the way that I am. He thinks he is smarter, I sometimes think so too.

In the same way we propel our bodies from one side of the room to another, some are able to control the processes of their body even down to direct healing at a cellular level.

You can pick up a cup, kick a ball, refine and form a piece of metal. This is our basic understanding of our effect on our surroundings. We seldom consider the effect our consciousness has on the environment and others.

The double slit experiment shows that the tiniest elements will behave as you expect them to but only whilst your consciousness is observing them.

I am not convinced that consciousness can only exist in a 'brain'. The brain is merely a processor, it processes electrical signals, energy. The brain is still exactly the same when a person dies but without the signals, what has changed? The energy has left the body, the composition is the same, the heart can just stop, it can sometimes be dragged back into the body and he/she is fine, sometimes the body can be brought back/resuscitated and not the person so it dies again.

It's a theory I like. I can't settle on a belief just yet though, so much to learn still.
edit on 21-5-2012 by Threegirls because: typo


I agree with you, but everything you mentioned pertains only to life, and only to life on a single planet on an almost infinitely small piece of the universe. This is no explanation of the universe. Once life ends, consciousness ends.

The double slit experiment is relative to the double slit experiment, nothing else. It tells us more about the double slit experiment than the universe.



posted on May, 21 2012 @ 11:30 PM
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Originally posted by Blue Shift

Originally posted by syrinx high priest
science has no explanation for it

Just because we don't know how something was done (yet) does not automatically equate to "God did it," any more than "Aliens did it." Unless you equate God with "I don't know." Which is actually a pretty good equation. God is the emptiness beyond your knowledge, reason and logic.




the universe comes into existance... you say god did not do this...........
others believe there was a creator/god which initiated the universe.....

you believe that life formed uninterfered with since the beginning of the universe.....
someone who believes that a creator created the universe, may believe that this "natural" formation of life was therefore caused by the creators creation of the universe,, there for life is a creation of god.



posted on May, 22 2012 @ 08:58 AM
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Here's my hypothesis for God's existence:

Atheists exist.

Therefore, God exists.



posted on May, 22 2012 @ 08:58 AM
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If you were one of those who got that last post then you're my kind of people. ;-)



posted on May, 22 2012 @ 09:36 AM
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reply to post by LesMisanthrope
 


Everything is made of consciousness, it does not mean what you see (say- a rock) is conscious.
You really can't tell if other people are conscious but you know you are.
Everything is made of your consciousness, like when you are dreaming everything is made of dream.



posted on May, 22 2012 @ 09:57 AM
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Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by LesMisanthrope
 


Everything is made of consciousness, it does not mean what you see (say- a rock) is conscious.
You really can't tell if other people are conscious but you know you are.
Everything is made of your consciousness, like when you are dreaming everything is made of dream.


It doesn't say what you mean either. You are aware that other people are indeed other people. If you know you are aware, it is safe to assume that they are aware. When they die, you still exist. It is safe to assume that when you die, they will still exist. Everything is percieved by the body, your conscious—not made of it. If your conscious ends, everything will continue to exist without you.



posted on May, 22 2012 @ 10:16 AM
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reply to post by LesMisanthrope
 


I assume that this is no different that a dream, everything is made of dream. I see the dream, i 'know' that i am conscious with 100% certainty, i do not 'know' for sure if anyone/thing else is.



posted on May, 22 2012 @ 10:16 AM
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Maybe we're looking at this in the wrong way. If you can concede that religion and science go hand in hand on many concepts accepted by both parties then we open up some doors here.

I don't know what god is, but I know what he isn't.

Consider that he may very well be simple in all respects....perhaps he is nothing more than the lighted photons that exist in every cell that reverberate the energy that makes our hearts beat?

What ever form he resides in, understand that there is a god, and our knowledge of him hasn't even scratched the surface. Perhaps that is where we're wrong. Why would god make us so curious about the origins of all things, yet prong us if we delve into his being specifically? Why would he make us like that knowing we would seach a millinia just to define him?

I would think that understanding what god is would bring us closer not only in belief, but faith as well. After all God is all things correct? Perhaps he is the very fabric of all things on a cellular level?


I just think that he is much simpler than we make him out to be. If you were god, would you want to presume to be so complicated in your existance?



posted on May, 22 2012 @ 11:50 AM
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Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by LesMisanthrope
 


I assume that this is no different that a dream, everything is made of dream. I see the dream, i 'know' that i am conscious with 100% certainty, i do not 'know' for sure if anyone/thing else is.



I don't see how that's possible. I am conscious. When I die, will you still exist?



posted on May, 22 2012 @ 11:56 AM
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There are so many different ideas as to what god even is that you would have to disprove an infinite number of ideas.



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