Does one have the right to be selfish?

Question:

Does one have the right to be selfish? Why does society act as though one were obligated to be unselfish? It's not possible to force someone to care about others if he doesn't right? Isn't this an unrealistic expectation?

Besides, isn't it wrong to force someone to compromise or sacrifice his interests, life, freedom, resources, needs, etc. for the benefit of others? What if he doesn't want to? Why should he force himself to do something he doesn't want to do? Especially if these "others" don't include his friends or family.

Isn't is self-destructive to be too selfless and only care about others but not about yourself? If so, why doesn't society consider that a bad thing too?

Key point: If everyone wants you to do something that you don't, should you give in, or should you listen to yourself and be selfish? Is one obligated to do something one doesn't want to do, just because everyone else says so?

I think on your last point that no, you never have to do anything you don't feel right doing. It isn't being selfish at all.

Depends on the situation though, who's involved. Is it family asking you to be part of a family event and you say no because Stanley cup playoffs are on tv, that would be selfish.

Well I believe selfishness comes from one of our most basic human instincts....self preservation. Its a pretty difficult instinct to overcome, and even those that claim that they're 100% selfless...there is always some degree of selfishness there...
So at the end of the day, those that get hammered for being selfish are being dictated to by hypocrites. Its a self-image thing I suppose.

When people ask for favours or anything, you would feel obligated to help and when you have helped them out.......going out of your way to help then that person turns his/her back on your when they reach the top.
I have had this happened to me on number of occasions and i can tell you its not satisfying.

When does someone that helps knows he has done a good deed or he was stupid enough to be played?

Originally posted by Brad-H
So at the end of the day, those that get hammered for being selfish are being dictated to by hypocrites. Its a self-image thing I suppose.

You are right inded. I agree with you

Think of it this way. Let's say you are forced to sacrifice your interests, life, freedom, resources, needs, etc. for the benefit of others (others being the elite) and so are all of your friends, neighbors, relatives and basically every other common man. That's just completely not moral. That is a one-way street, and you are being used.

Now, if in your neighborhood, you had a nice thing going where you all helped each other out when you could, that would benefit the neighborhood as a whole, and you. This sounds pretty good.

In addition, I would like to add that the best society is one where everyone has the freedom to pursue happiness. In fact:

We hold these truths to be self–evident,
That all men are created equal,
That they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights,
That among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

Originally posted by violet
I think on your last point that no, you never have to do anything you don't feel right doing. It isn't being selfish at all.

Depends on the situation though, who's involved. Is it family asking you to be part of a family event and you say no because Stanley cup playoffs are on tv, that would be selfish.

No nothing that simple. I'm talking anything. Even obligations such as to your family. Some people simply have no desire or interest in sacrificing their life and freedom for their families, even though they are expected to. So in this case, what if you have zero desire to sacrifice yourself, even for your family? What if you have other interests in life? What if you don't care?

Everyone wants to tie you down. But when you get tied down, you lose the best things in life, which are romance, adventure, excitement, fun, new experiences, etc. All routine is the antithesis of those things, including work, marriage and children. Yet everyone wants to tie you down and make you obligated.

What if you don't want to or have zero desire to?

Given these two choices:
- Be happy and free but incur the disapproval of everyone
- Be unhappy and miserable with the approval of everyone

I'd much rather choose the former. Wouldn't you?

Case in point:

Right now my girlfriend is miserable and stressed. Her son is a tyrant that won't let her go anywhere or do anything. He refuses to be babysat by others, refuses to hang out with grandma, refuses to go to daycare, refuses to let her go on vacation, etc.

What can she do?

I hate to say this, but having a child can be one of the WORST mistakes and WORST things that ever happens to you. You lose all your freedom, just as if you joined the army, and can't do anything about it, esp if your kid is like a tyrant who controls you.

What can she do? How can she break free of her son?

I know it sounds bad, but children are VERY ENSLAVING. It's one of the worst predicaments cause there's no way out. You can quit a job, quit a marriage, but you can't quit children. How can you break free?

Why doesn't society ever warn us about the neverending enslavement of children? It's a cruel scam.

I certainly wouldn't want to be enslaved in servitude to a child. I have zero interest in doing so. I have no desire for self-sacrifice. What can you do?

I think some people do have a desire to self-sacrifice. Parents usually have this desire. But I guess some don't have this desire. Perhaps they lack a "self-sacrificing" gene?

reply to post by WWu777


And when the majority think this way we get
the situation today.
So ask yourself ,are you happy with the way things are

reply to post by WWu777


I have a solution for your girlfriend's son. If he is autistic, she might want to find a sitter that is at least somewhat compatible with him, be reassuring with him the first few times, and keep the same sitter, that way he can get used to him or her and become more comfortable with the situation over time.

There might also be reasons that he doesn't like visiting his grandmother, including loud noises, unpredictable behavior, or something of the like.

Overall, a solution needs to be found for this problem, because letting him be in control of her like this is actually an unhealthy decision for his future, her life, and their relationship. There are probably creative solutions to this and other problems that crop up that she can utilize if she thinks about it a bit.

reply to post by WWu777


It seems your wanting out of the relationship with your GF and her son, and don't want the obligations that go along with having kids, and that certainly is your right.

More than likely it will hurt her when you break-up with her, and I'm guessing that might be what inspired this thread. If this is the case, don't drag it out with her. She wiill need time to heel and hopefully find someone that wants to help raise her child with her, sounds like she's gonna need the help.

Originally posted by darkbake
reply to post by WWu777

 

I have a solution for your girlfriend's son. If he is autistic, she might want to find a sitter that is at least somewhat compatible with him, be reassuring with him the first few times, and keep the same sitter, that way he can get used to him or her and become more comfortable with the situation over time.

There might also be reasons that he doesn't like visiting his grandmother, including loud noises, unpredictable behavior, or something of the like.

Overall, a solution needs to be found for this problem, because letting him be in control of her like this is actually an unhealthy decision for his future, her life, and their relationship. There are probably creative solutions to this and other problems that crop up that she can utilize if she thinks about it a bit.

edit on 21-5-2012 by darkbake because: (no reason given)

edit on 21-5-2012 by darkbake because: (no reason given)

He's not autistic. He just wants everything his way and doesn't take no for an answer. He just has a strong personality that wants his way. Grandma is just boring to him. He doesn't like to play with other kids too. I think he's an introvert and other kids bore him, esp since they are different than him and more simple.

I don't know what she can do. Why didn't society warn us about having kids? They trick us into thinking it's the most wonderful thing. But I've never found raising kids to be joyful or pleasurable in any way. Maybe I'm just different than everyone. There's just no excitement in raising a family. If you watch the "Vacation" movies with Chevy Chase, you'll see that family vacations are more stressful than fun.

reply to post by WWu777


Wow. I have to say that reading this makes me rather furious. I thought when you said "He is a tyrant" that he was about teenage age or older. I then see he is no more than a tot?? I cannot easily accept that a child of such age can REFUSE to do such things...and get away with it???? (I beg your pardon somewhat if he is autistic which another poster previously mentioned) Your GF needs to put her foot down.

Its understandable that parenting is rough. I am not a huge fan of children so I have none of my own and likely will not ever. I am not sure what your GFs situation is really, but I am going by what you said here and that is extreme stuff there. I must ask why she tolerates it, or THINKS she HAS to? I am willing to guess its the same answer that mothers of extremely super obese 1 and 2 year olds on Maury say.. "If I don't do thus and so, he/she will cry and throw a tantrum until I give in." and then "Its because I love him/her" Of course I would hope the second one is true, but really its not at all healthy for anyone in that situation and quite contrary.

To me, it sounds like some therapy is needed. Regardless if she is having discipline issues or if he is autistic. Which makes me wonder since Grandma can't even handle him? In that case, there is SO much help out there for that and insurance can cover testing for autism spectrum (even some Medicaid types) which gets things started off on a proper foot because autism is SO varied.

I really hope it works out for all involved though no matter what the case.

Once upon a time, humans were forced to rely on each other, and we developed our social abilities. we looked after the old, we cared for each others young. We had a kinship. We belonged.

Then along came today. And everyone is all ME ME ME. Screw you granny, that's my seat on the bus. Bugger off old man, that last loaf of bread in the store is mine. Sod off sonny, I never wanted kids, get off my lawn.

Now we're not allowed to belong, or we're racist, bigots, nationalist, xenophobic, ignorant and a pain in the bum to people made of candy.

And so we all suffer for it. It's not any longer how a tenor exercises their vocal chords... ME ME ME ME MEEEEE.. is a way of life for the ipod generation.

The end.

reply to post by WWu777


Agreed!
And I can tell you that being a parent NEVER ends. Guess who is spending life savings on currently unemployed due to economy son. !/4th of it gone already. Being old is bad enough.

Those who call you selfish are just mad because you didn't yield to their attempts to manipulate you.

I know some people who are selfless and have taken into their homes various friends and sometimes strangers who were down and out.
Well, results were that they ate for free and stole stuff.
A homeless woman with an infant--This lady couldn't just let them on the street. So she took them in.
Next day the woman's boyfriend came by to pick up her and baby, along with TV, and some jewelry and tools.
Selfless to a fault, always getting ripped off.

As long as your actions do not cause harm or distress to other's, then I believe one has the right to be selfish.

Originally posted by woodwardjnr
As long as your actions do not cause harm or distress to other's, then I believe one has the right to be selfish.

Yeah, I agree....The problem, I think, the OP has is that he going to have no choice but to hurt people in order to have the freedom he seeks. It's going to be impossible to avoid in the situation he described.

Moving forward I hope he will understand that the "romance" and new experiences he seeks need to begin with disclosure of his true intentions, which seem to be he has no interest in getting "tied down", lol, that will greatly limit his choices of women, because most aren't going to agree to those terms, and this is the cause of much heartbreak for women that are not aware that thier new love interest sees them as "temporary", and once the fun is gone, his intention is to move on.

This makes me think of something my ex told me once, which was basically that " he very much resented that in order to have relationships with women he desired ,he had to agree to monogamy that he did not want", this lead to cheating, picking ridiculous fights, and lot's of drama and pain for all concerned.

lol, George Clooney seems to pull this off by being very honest he is not the "marrying type", so the women he dates know this upfront, he was honest, so can't really fault his choices, although no doubt many women he dates secretly hope things will be different with her.....just the way most women are "wired" I think.

reply to post by WWu777

Does one have the right to be selfish?

Sorry I just made up my mind not to tell you.

You know by your intuitions when you need to do what is in the best interest of oneself, that is not being selfish that is being wise.

Originally posted by WWu777
Question:

Does one have the right to be selfish? Why does society act as though one were obligated to be unselfish?

Where do "rights" come from? Society.

Where do "obligations" come from? Society.

You don't have any rights and you don't have any obligations other than the ones you impede yourself with because you don't want society to shun you.

I don't know where you are from, but where I live (US), selfishness is lauded. In fact, this is the whole reason we are having an economic crisis: too many selfish people wanted more than they could afford, big financial institutions played into it to get more money, then everyone crashed and burned. That, compounded with the "entitlement" crowd who went to expensive universities, got degrees that are completely worthless in the real world, and who have no actual marketable skills for a good job yet expect to get paid top wage because of their "elite" degrees... Well, you can see where selfishness on a sweeping scale is not a good thing.

People are still just as selfish as ever, even at the bottom of the heap.

It is unfortunate, but not surprising.

It's not possible to force someone to care about others if he doesn't right? Isn't this an unrealistic expectation?

Who is forcing anything? Do you have a gun to your head as someone demands that you go work at a soup kitchen?

I'm really at a loss where you are getting this set of "expectations". You either do things for others because you want to, or you don't.

Besides, isn't it wrong to force someone to compromise or sacrifice his interests, life, freedom, resources, needs, etc. for the benefit of others? What if he doesn't want to? Why should he force himself to do something he doesn't want to do? Especially if these "others" don't include his friends or family.

I don't think it is right to force people to do things they do not want to do.

Isn't is self-destructive to be too selfless and only care about others but not about yourself? If so, why doesn't society consider that a bad thing too?

Yes, it is self-destructive to be too selfless. This is why a balance between selflessness and selfishness is necessary for optimum survival.

Key point: If everyone wants you to do something that you don't, should you give in, or should you listen to yourself and be selfish? Is one obligated to do something one doesn't want to do, just because everyone else says so?

No. But, I say this as someone who has never been a follower and who walks away rather than give in to peer pressure. This is a product of being born into a very suppressive family where all my of wants/needs were quashed before they were ever voiced. When I learned to stand up for myself, I found that I definitely don't like people telling me what to do. I prefer to think about and weigh my options before taking action. The more pressure I feel from others, the less likely I am to do what they think I should do.

You are not obligated to do anything. If you are feeling pressure to do things you do not want to do, then you are spending time with the wrong group of people. Nobody who loves or cares about you will try to force or goad you into doing things you aren't comfortable doing.

There are times when selfishness is important, just as there are times when selflessness is important. You need to use the mind you have and make these decisions for yourself. Sure, you can use other people's opinions in your reasoning, but that decision needs to ultimately be your own.

reply to post by WWu777


Here... try this:


upload.wikimedia.org...

Rand's characterization of selfishness as a virtue, including in the title of the book, is one of its most controversial elements. Philosopher Chandran Kukathas said Rand's position on this point "brought notoriety, but kept her out of the intellectual mainstream."[5] Rand acknowledged in the book's introduction that the term 'selfishness' was not typically used to describe virtuous behavior, but insisted that her usage was consistent with a more precise meaning of the term as simply "concern with one's own interests." The equation of selfishness with evil, Rand said, had caused "the arrested moral development of mankind" and needed to be rejected.
en.wikipedia.org...

Concern with one's own interests... hmm.