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What are your favorite 9/11 debunking tactics?

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posted on May, 23 2012 @ 06:49 PM
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reply to post by maxella1
 


Have you seen this Richard Clarke interview ?

www.youtube.com...

What makes you think the FBI were aware of these terrorists ?




posted on May, 23 2012 @ 06:56 PM
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maxella1, thank you for fighting for the truth, but you need to realize, that the cover-up, that followed, includes not only mass media, but the internet too. And there are definitely people, who work as a professional debunker on the internet forums. While you never can say for sure that a certain individual is the case, you have to keep in mind this simple fact and try not to waste too much energy trying to convince people on something, that they already know, but have to object.



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 06:57 PM
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reply to post by Alfie1
 




No, it's not going nowhere because of debunkers but because of the inherent stupidity of virtually all conspiracy theories and the total lack of evidence to support them, even after more than a decade. The conspiracy theories have done the admin a favour by concentrating on the ludicrous and thereby providing a cover for the incompetent and maybe more. People aren't waking up to conspiracy theories, you are kidding yourself. Surely it is evident even on here tjhat there is sagging interest, nothing new, just rehash and more and more improbable junk.



I'm really interested to read what new topics you are looking for? And who are you expecting to provide something new without a real criminal investigation with subpoena powers and interview people in court under oath? You want regular people on a web forum to do that and without help?

Yeah, you're a good little debunker.



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 07:25 PM
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Originally posted by Alfie1

Originally posted by maxella1

Originally posted by Alfie1
reply to post by secgovwiki
 


I think the truth has pretty clearly risen already. Trutherism is dead in the water and going nowhere.


The water is going nowhere because of people like you. You are satisfied with the” failure of imagination” explanation. And you defend that theory day in and day out, as long as it takes and no matter what is going on around you. If you would unplug from Fox news and CNN, and start believing your own eyes instead of the clowns at NIST and the Commission, and Popular Mechanics. Just look at the events of that day and the cover up since then. It will become clear that there is a huge problem. And once you see that, it will be impossible to un-see the reality. No matter how long GoodolDave and Hooper and the rest of the “debunkers” try to defend the fairy tail that we were told and you are defending right now, reality will remain a reality. People are waking up at least don't lie to yourself about that.


No, it's not going nowhere because of debunkers but because of the inherent stupidity of virtually all conspiracy theories and the total lack of evidence to support them, even after more than a decade.

The conspiracy theories have done the admin a favour by concentrating on the ludicrous and thereby providing a cover for the incompetent and maybe more.

People aren't waking up to conspiracy theories, you are kidding yourself. Surely it is evident even on here tjhat there is sagging interest, nothing new, just rehash and more and more improbable junk.


Where does your intelligence come from? You might reconsider the sources you are relying upon.

The Spy Museum in Washington, D.C. recently held a debate: on Monday, April 02, 2012 6:30pm to 8:30pm :

"9/11, False Flags, and Black Ops: An Evening of Debate with David Frum, Jonathan Kay, and Webster Tarpley"

www.spymuseum.org...

Jonathan Kay recently wrote a book called: "Among the Truthers: A Journey Through America’s Growing Conspiracist Underground".

Your assertion that the trend of people questioning the reality that has been forced down their throats is decreasing is wrong. As the Obama Adminstration and those to come push a war with Iran (and the USA becomes ever-increasingly totalitarian), the trend will only accelerate. Illusions can only be held for so long before the jig is up.

Things will only end well for America (despite much hardship to come). The spirit of the people will not be broken by the likes of tyrants (at home or abroad).
edit on 23-5-2012 by secgovwiki because: spelling

edit on 23-5-2012 by secgovwiki because: wording



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 07:27 PM
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Originally posted by DonJuan
maxella1, thank you for fighting for the truth, but you need to realize, that the cover-up, that followed, includes not only mass media, but the internet too. And there are definitely people, who work as a professional debunker on the internet forums. While you never can say for sure that a certain individual is the case, you have to keep in mind this simple fact and try not to waste too much energy trying to convince people on something, that they already know, but have to object.


I think that what you’re saying is true. But I don't consider this as wasting time convincing that about anything, I don't care what they believe in. I feel that if there wouldn’t people that come to websites like ATS and keep them in check, then when new people who are currently busy with video games and sports find the site and start asking questions I think you know what kind of answers they will get. And once the “debunkers” start personal attacks new people will stop asking. Unless others here are challenging the debunkers, and deal with the personal attacks we get here.



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 07:42 PM
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Originally posted by maxella1
I think that what you’re saying is true. But I don't consider this as wasting time convincing that about anything, I don't care what they believe in. I feel that if there wouldn’t people that come to websites like ATS and keep them in check, then when new people who are currently busy with video games and sports find the site and start asking questions I think you know what kind of answers they will get. And once the “debunkers” start personal attacks new people will stop asking. Unless others here are challenging the debunkers, and deal with the personal attacks we get here.


I like your optimism.
I guess once a person finds ATS and begins to be interested in CT, soon he finds that MSM lies and the government may lie too.
ATS is an "easy" place. Try some more general forums, and you will finish banned.

I wanted to change the world too, but I found that it is too late. They have too much control and the general public is not interested too. No one likes the idea, that the government does not protect him, but instead is controlled by some hidden powers. Others understand it, but they say: "there is always someone who abuse power, just adapt to the situation". Being with the bad guys pays more, fighting with them leads you personally nowhere. And if you becomes too visible, they will ruin your life.
Something else, then 9/11 truth, needed to win them. Something economical I guess.



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 07:57 PM
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reply to post by DonJuan
 



I like your optimism. I guess once a person finds ATS and begins to be interested in CT, soon he finds that MSM lies and the government may lie too. ATS is an "easy" place. Try some more general forums, and you will finish banned. I wanted to change the world too, but I found that it is too late. They have too much control and the general public is not interested too. No one likes the idea, that the government does not protect him, but instead is controlled by some hidden powers. Others understand it, but they say: "there is always someone who abuse power, just adapt to the situation". Being with the bad guys pays more, fighting with them leads you personally nowhere. And if you becomes too visible, they will ruin your life. Something else, then 9/11 truth, needed to win them. Something economical I guess.

Why do you think it's too late?



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 07:58 PM
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Originally posted by DonJuan

Originally posted by maxella1
I think that what you’re saying is true. But I don't consider this as wasting time convincing that about anything, I don't care what they believe in. I feel that if there wouldn’t people that come to websites like ATS and keep them in check, then when new people who are currently busy with video games and sports find the site and start asking questions I think you know what kind of answers they will get. And once the “debunkers” start personal attacks new people will stop asking. Unless others here are challenging the debunkers, and deal with the personal attacks we get here.


I like your optimism.
I guess once a person finds ATS and begins to be interested in CT, soon he finds that MSM lies and the government may lie too.
ATS is an "easy" place. Try some more general forums, and you will finish banned.

I wanted to change the world too, but I found that it is too late. They have too much control and the general public is not interested too. No one likes the idea, that the government does not protect him, but instead is controlled by some hidden powers. Others understand it, but they say: "there is always someone who abuse power, just adapt to the situation". Being with the bad guys pays more, fighting with them leads you personally nowhere. And if you becomes too visible, they will ruin your life.
Something else, then 9/11 truth, needed to win them. Something economical I guess.


I appreciate your sentiment. A few points:

1. Individuals can change the world.

2. Read Henry Thoreau's "Civil Disobedience".

3. "Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends."

4. Individuals shape reality every day with their lives.

5. "Here is anywhere. Anytime is now." Things begin now.

Here is a depressing thought but one to consider: All the energy (of a nation) that has gone into the GWOT is indeed great in the sense of magnitude (time, money, lives, resources). What if all that energy was put to good use? If at the dawn of the 21st Century, we took the high road instead of that other one?

Moonbases? Mars settlement? What is the opposite of this current reality?

The utter waste and ruin of our national momentum ten years ago is a far greater crime than anyone alive can imagine.



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 08:22 PM
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Originally posted by maxella1
Why do you think it's too late?


They control everything. Central banks, politics, media, secret services. There is simply no force left, that can oppose them.
Russia is completely under control, I do not know about China, but remember that the towers' steel was shipped to China? China cares only about themselves, gave away Libya, for example.
And I have no hope in the people, grass roots movements. One of my friend is specialized in revolutions and I share his opinion, that most revolutions happen with external help. There will be no external help in this case.
And people must start to suffer, but the western world lives too good for the moment, and most of people do not care. Only when and if western economy will be ruined and a lot of hungry people start to become angry, then they may open their minds for 9/11 truth and start to revolt. But THEY realize it too and getting ready for this scenario too.
I personally believe that the Bible prophecy about Satan ruling the Earth (NWO) will become true.
9/11 is just a small piece in a series of actions. And they still have some aces hidden in the sleeves, like a big nuclear terror event with tens, if not hundreds dead . They love to use small nuclear devices.



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 08:59 PM
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Originally posted by DonJuan

Originally posted by maxella1
Why do you think it's too late?


They control everything. Central banks, politics, media, secret services. There is simply no force left, that can oppose them.
Russia is completely under control, I do not know about China, but remember that the towers' steel was shipped to China? China cares only about themselves, gave away Libya, for example.
And I have no hope in the people, grass roots movements. One of my friend is specialized in revolutions and I share his opinion, that most revolutions happen with external help. There will be no external help in this case.
And people must start to suffer, but the western world lives too good for the moment, and most of people do not care. Only when and if western economy will be ruined and a lot of hungry people start to become angry, then they may open their minds for 9/11 truth and start to revolt. But THEY realize it too and getting ready for this scenario too.
I personally believe that the Bible prophecy about Satan ruling the Earth (NWO) will become true.
9/11 is just a small piece in a series of actions. And they still have some aces hidden in the sleeves, like a big nuclear terror event with tens, if not hundreds dead . They love to use small nuclear devices.

I got a few questions for you.

Should we stop debating about 9/11 since it won't change anything anyway?
What are your opinions about 9/11?
Who are these people that control everything including Russia?
How do you see this country in say 5 years from now?



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 09:57 PM
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Originally posted by maxella1
Should we stop debating about 9/11 since it won't change anything anyway?
What are your opinions about 9/11?
Who are these people that control everything including Russia?
How do you see this country in say 5 years from now?


If you feel like debating, then debate. I personally decided that I am not debating with shills and I am not trying to convince common people. I just debate with people who may help me understand staff.

9/11 - Media/Secret Services(Mossad) PsyOp
No panes used. This one was easy to understand. Not sure about Shanksville plane, it may be destroyed in the air). Do not see why they would need it, so it may be different case. No panes is the key to understand that the so called Truth movement is controlled opposition and was intended to give some false theories and fail.
Nuclear devices used to destroy the building. OS, explosives, thermite - all do not fit all evidences. I am not sure if it was 1 big underground device (Khalezov) or some small ones(anonymous physicist) or mix. Thermite might be used to cut the top of the tower.
Just a part of high USA official knew the plan in advance. For most of them it was a surprise too. That's why some mess during the event, that they had to cover up later.
Motive? There are plenty of them. It is not for oil for sure. The main one - they start to prepare the world for post capitalism stage. Capitalism cannot be forever by its nature. Terrorism as a new enemy (and a new tool).

The same people who controls the money. The financial elite, bankers. Most of them are Jews. I do not know if Jews have their own hidden agenda, learning now. Historically they were always usurers and traderes, and we live in the world when those have reached their max power.

Yes, this people control Russia. Russian central bank is just a branch of FRS. Putin is pushing deindustrialization and weaken the army. Russia is still portrayed as a potential enemy and Putin as an independent and strong leader. What a farce! People started to realize that the country goes nowhere, so they started a controlled liberal opposition(these days it is almost always controlled), giving people 2 bad choices: Putin or even more liberal compradors.
In 5 years the world will be even more unstable. But if the oil prices will not drop, no big changes in Russia.

Giving 2 wrong choices is a very popular tactic. In 9/11 we have OS and "inside job", both wrong.

General idea - give them a lot of credit. They are very smart. They are very powerful, they think ahead, they have plan for many coming years.



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 10:20 PM
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Originally posted by Alfie1
reply to post by maxella1
 


Have you seen this Richard Clarke interview ?

www.youtube.com...

What makes you think the FBI were aware of these terrorists ?


5 Surprising Facts About Spying In America

An FBI informant hosted and rented a room to two hijackers in 2000. Specifically, investigators for the Congressional Joint Inquiry discovered that an FBI informant had hosted and even rented a room to two hijackers in 2000 and that, when the Inquiry sought to interview the informant, the FBI refused outright, and then hid him in an unknown location, and that a high-level FBI official stated these blocking maneuvers were undertaken under orders from the White House. As the New York Times notes: Senator Bob Graham, the Florida Democrat who is a former chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, accused the White House on Tuesday of covering up evidence …. The accusation stems from the Federal Bureau of Investigation’s refusal to allow investigators for a Congressional inquiry and the independent Sept. 11 commission to interview an informant, Abdussattar Shaikh, who had been the landlord in San Diego of two Sept. 11 hijackers.


As I said earlier I only know what is available to read, listen and watch on TV.
How much of this is true I don't know, if you can debunk it go ahead.



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 10:31 PM
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Originally posted by DonJuan

Originally posted by maxella1
Should we stop debating about 9/11 since it won't change anything anyway?
What are your opinions about 9/11?
Who are these people that control everything including Russia?
How do you see this country in say 5 years from now?


If you feel like debating, then debate. I personally decided that I am not debating with shills and I am not trying to convince common people. I just debate with people who may help me understand staff.

9/11 - Media/Secret Services(Mossad) PsyOp
No panes used. This one was easy to understand. Not sure about Shanksville plane, it may be destroyed in the air). Do not see why they would need it, so it may be different case. No panes is the key to understand that the so called Truth movement is controlled opposition and was intended to give some false theories and fail.
Nuclear devices used to destroy the building. OS, explosives, thermite - all do not fit all evidences. I am not sure if it was 1 big underground device (Khalezov) or some small ones(anonymous physicist) or mix. Thermite might be used to cut the top of the tower.
Just a part of high USA official knew the plan in advance. For most of them it was a surprise too. That's why some mess during the event, that they had to cover up later.
Motive? There are plenty of them. It is not for oil for sure. The main one - they start to prepare the world for post capitalism stage. Capitalism cannot be forever by its nature. Terrorism as a new enemy (and a new tool).

The same people who controls the money. The financial elite, bankers. Most of them are Jews. I do not know if Jews have their own hidden agenda, learning now. Historically they were always usurers and traderes, and we live in the world when those have reached their max power.

Yes, this people control Russia. Russian central bank is just a branch of FRS. Putin is pushing deindustrialization and weaken the army. Russia is still portrayed as a potential enemy and Putin as an independent and strong leader. What a farce! People started to realize that the country goes nowhere, so they started a controlled liberal opposition(these days it is almost always controlled), giving people 2 bad choices: Putin or even more liberal compradors.
In 5 years the world will be even more unstable. But if the oil prices will not drop, no big changes in Russia.

Giving 2 wrong choices is a very popular tactic. In 9/11 we have OS and "inside job", both wrong.

General idea - give them a lot of credit. They are very smart. They are very powerful, they think ahead, they have plan for many coming years.


No planes, nukes and Jews... Got it.

Two more questions if you don't mind...

Victims or Vicsims?

All Jews, some Jews?



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 11:12 PM
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You know I didn't say that. You're just being a jerk now.
reply to post by Varemia
 


I didn't mean to hurt you feelings. I'll try be a little more sensitive if you start to make sense. okay?



posted on May, 24 2012 @ 02:12 AM
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Originally posted by maxella1
reply to post by TrickoftheShade
 



I'll tell you what. I'll give you a million euros if you can provide one solid piece of evidence that 9/11 was an inside job.


Where are you going to get a million euros?


I suppose I'd change some sterling into euros.

Being in on the conspiracy pays very well.



posted on May, 24 2012 @ 11:36 AM
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Originally posted by maxella1



You know I didn't say that. You're just being a jerk now.
reply to post by Varemia
 


I didn't mean to hurt you feelings. I'll try be a little more sensitive if you start to make sense. okay?


Damn it, you're being dishonest and trying to steer this discussion down the tubes. If anyone is being paid to mess with the facts and keep things unsolved, it's you. I think it's likely that you're the shill.



posted on May, 24 2012 @ 11:43 AM
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Originally posted by Varemia

I think it's likely that you're the shill.


Interesting you say that, actually. And you're right - Maxella's tactics are continually unconstructive. They look like they're designed to maintain an endless debate in the face of ever reaching any kind of conclusion - or truth.

I wonder if he's paid by one of the bigger sites in order to suggest there's still a debate surrounding this stuff? Certainly it would make sense for them to propagate traffic with a couple of minimum-wagers bringing up the same old nonsense every once in a while and then continuing a fake 'debate' by refusing to accept the most basic logical answers.



posted on May, 24 2012 @ 12:30 PM
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Originally posted by TrickoftheShade

Originally posted by Varemia

I think it's likely that you're the shill.


Interesting you say that, actually. And you're right - Maxella's tactics are continually unconstructive. They look like they're designed to maintain an endless debate in the face of ever reaching any kind of conclusion - or truth.

I wonder if he's paid by one of the bigger sites in order to suggest there's still a debate surrounding this stuff? Certainly it would make sense for them to propagate traffic with a couple of minimum-wagers bringing up the same old nonsense every once in a while and then continuing a fake 'debate' by refusing to accept the most basic logical answers.


You guys have it backwards... I'm suposed to accuse you of being a paid shill, not the other way around.

You silly conspiracy theorists.


As for the endless debate, you just mad that you loose every time. Unfortunately for you it's impossible to debunk reality.
edit on 24-5-2012 by maxella1 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 24 2012 @ 12:32 PM
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Originally posted by Varemia

Originally posted by maxella1



You know I didn't say that. You're just being a jerk now.
reply to post by Varemia
 


I didn't mean to hurt you feelings. I'll try be a little more sensitive if you start to make sense. okay?


Damn it, you're being dishonest and trying to steer this discussion down the tubes. If anyone is being paid to mess with the facts and keep things unsolved, it's you. I think it's likely that you're the shill.


So what am I being dishonest about? That I didn't mean to hurt your feelings?



posted on May, 24 2012 @ 02:49 PM
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reply to post by maxella1
 


You get off on this, don't you? These are actual answers that are used to defend the DS or Delusional Story as i call is now which is the opposite of the OS. No matter what is asked of one, you can plug this in like a mad lib and you get a conversation....

1. Physics were suspended that day
2. This had never happened before
3. There is no precedent
4. 3 buildings have never collapsed at the same time
5. how much did the concrete weigh
6. Northwoods
7. Pearl Harbor
8. NIST never looked for explosives
9. Silverman made money
10. no way a bunch of arabs with boxcutters did this
11. BUsh sucks
12. It was the NWO
13. Cheney sucks
14. the truth is days awake
15 wake up!!!
16. show me the physics
17. explosives
18. thermite
19 . dust proves it!!!


need i go on.......

edit on 24-5-2012 by esdad71 because: (no reason given)




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