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WA Threatens to split from Australia

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posted on May, 23 2012 @ 01:30 AM
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reply to post by gps777
 

You are right. But remember...a partnership with the United States...which right now is strongly coming out of this long term economic quandry...is Australias best chance to develop the interior of your country. I have been to Australia many times and the people are very similar to those in the U.S.

Yet...and I am jealous of this and I am never Jealous....Aussies take things a bit easier and more relaxed than people in the States. Everything here is GO, GO, GO...FASTER, STRONGER, BETTER and QUICKER!

Because of your low population...in order to expand you need to have the right conditions. I am not advocating some massive population but you are a Large country with the 52nd ranked numerical population. That is not good.

A partnership would help you immensly. Plus the tech you could aquire would allow you to farm areas that you could ordinarily not. Split Infinity




posted on May, 23 2012 @ 03:38 AM
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Originally posted by AussieDingus
What i asked was, did WA or QLD share in the profits of the steel industry boom when it was at its peak. So why shouldn't other states share in WA and QLD's mining boom ?

What I keep asking you is instead of asking me that question show me where its true,that we shared other peoples profits.

If you can,can you show me where the state that was doing well had their funding cut also,thanks.



If i had a dollar for every person that said they could get me a start in the mines, i wouldn't have to work in the mines !

If only you asked them all for a dollar then I guess,I`m sure they could have all flicked you a buck.I know your not being serious here just a bit of tongue in cheek.


I'm not saying the workers should complain, or get a double dip. I'm saying the a large amount of miners fly in from other states to make the mines their profits. So why should the profits be excluded to just WA or QLD ?

Maybe because their state gets their full funding and I`m not saying that it all should stay here just be fair about it.


This didn't answer my question, the question was, what happens to these communties after the mining companies have moved on. If there's asbestos everywhere at that site, then its hardly a case of a mining compnay caring for a community !

Well if people are willing to stay in a hazadous place out in the middle of nowhere such as Wittenoom from way back in 1966 when the mine stopped,what do you think would happen to the larger coastal communties,that has some of the best fishing imo in the freaking world.If it was a uranium mine and everyone started getting cancer so they shut the mine,do you think the company should get rid of all the uranium or something,thats a bit ridiculous imo.(or a lot)


Well its funny you ask me that, because as a single male taxpayer living in Australia, i'm the most disciminated category their is according to tax purposes.

I may be able to agree with you being discriminated,though due to tax? can you explain that a bit more.


And everyone else isnt being taxed less, they are being taxed according to their earnings, yet is the same rule applying to these mining magnates ?

The carbon tax was a way to get more out of them,it will only flow on to those already paying tax,as like the gst really only made business owners tax collectors for the ATO, all in all I`ve only noticed higher prices in everyday goods,but the TV`s etc got cheaper,some can`t feed themselves on TV`s.




But you are defending these people, so aren't you also thinking that you're entitled to have a say with others finance's,

Absolutely you earn it honestly, you do as you see fit,I don`t care if your a mining magnate or other.


but as long as everyone agree's with your opinion, its ok !

Yep my opinion is vote me for PM I`ll fix all the problems in a jiffy and make it compulsary topless bathing everywhere,then we`ll be ok!.




And i never said anyhting about how some one should spend their money, we were talking about how much these people should contribute in taxes, not spending !

So why not go after people who make it hard for people like banks who make billions per year not in a life time,not those who already do so much for people and the country as it is.Why not the Gov for poor management etc.


Ahh, and there it is. No valid response so you have to resort to the whinging comments, yet i'm doing nothing different to you on here, i just have a different opinion. My comment about mining magnates whinging was backed up with examples to prove the point.

We are different,there was a time in my life when I was extremely poor,I just didn`t begrudge those who had more than me,I worked my arse off and improved my situation.You sound as though you may be doing it tough,I`ve been there and if so I`d like to hear your circumstances change for the better in the future.



Yep, and when the majority live on the East coast, the majority of the fair share will more than likely end up towards the east more than the west. thats how a majority works. Thats not my system, thats just how it works
.

When you take into account how expensive WA is to live in,population isn`t everything and by cutting the buget how is that fair? the fly in fly out guys on good wages get to go back to cheaper living,thats double dipping imo.



I'm prepared to move anywhere in Australia for a mining job, but i'm currently not in a financial position to just up and move on the CHANCE of getting a job. But thanks anyway for the advice !


If you`ve got a job,maybe try to save a bit over time and come over when you can take some leave,knock on doors if you have to,I`ll keep an ear out.Though are you just going for a labourers job? u2u me.

No probs your welcome.



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 04:00 AM
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Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by bowtomonkey
 

You will make out monetarily in the end. You do not need to purchase large defensive systems but you do need a few things like ABM's as well as a few attack subs. The money you would get from the U.S. would be HUGE!

Most likely for a naval abse we are talking at least 50 Billion. Split Infinity



$50 billion buys diddly squat.
Next you'll be dumping nuclear waste in the dessert. Maybe some aboriginal tribe will offer you a plot they scored for 'sacred' sites'.

Why would America want to waste their money building bases here?



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 04:19 AM
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Originally posted by SplitInfinity
You are right. But remember...a partnership with the United States...which right now is strongly coming out of this long term economic quandry...is Australias best chance to develop the interior of your country. I have been to Australia many times and the people are very similar to those in the U.S.

I`ve heard people talking about this in the past,but for me I like Australia as it is as far as population goes.

But yeah we have the space and I don`t begrudge anyone wanting to come here for a better life,so long as they pull their weight, then all the best to them.


Yet...and I am jealous of this and I am never Jealous....Aussies take things a bit easier and more relaxed than people in the States. Everything here is GO, GO, GO...FASTER, STRONGER, BETTER and QUICKER!

Yeah I can imagine many Americans thinking we are a pack of neanderthals lmao,but we can give as well as we get.


Because of your low population...in order to expand you need to have the right conditions. I am not advocating some massive population but you are a Large country with the 52nd ranked numerical population. That is not good.

Why, defence wise you mean?


A partnership would help you immensly. Plus the tech you could aquire would allow you to farm areas that you could ordinarily not. Split Infinity

Believe it or not Split we have some smart guys and gals over here that could figure that out all by themselves.

When 911 happened I was with you guys and glad that our PM (Howard at the time) gave our support immediately as he was over there at the time trying to get you guys to give us a fair trade agreement (the first time he tried he was snubbed by your Gov and came home red faced) in the end a deal was done,one of the conditions was that Australia was to broadcast more American TV shows,this was one way to condition Australia to become more Americanised.

It wasn`t long after 911 and following threads here on ATS and watching the BS claims on who are the axis of evil etc and watching America strategically position its self around the globe I came to the conclusion that America isn`t good for Australias best interests and many other countries around the world.

Now that can be offensive to Americans because you guys have a lot of pride,but I`ve read from too many Americans who are also against how their country operates globally,to know that there are a heck of a lot of good Americans over there wanting change.Go Ron Paul for mine and be quick about it.He`s getting on lol



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 05:05 AM
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Originally posted by gps777

Originally posted by AussieDingus

What I keep asking you is instead of asking me that question show me where its true,that we shared other peoples profits.

If you can,can you show me where the state that was doing well had their funding cut also,thanks.


If WA is in a mining boom, then where did the money come from before the boom for cities like Perth and Fremantle, from other states and industry booms perhaps ??? And i haven't mentioned funding cuts in my post, so no, i don't have to show you anything.



If only you asked them all for a dollar then I guess,I`m sure they could have all flicked you a buck.I know your not being serious here just a bit of tongue in cheek.

Yeah just joking, but in all seriousness if i hear one more person say the mines are "crying out for workers" i think i will slap them back into reality.






\

Well if people are willing to stay in a hazadous place out in the middle of nowhere such as Wittenoom from way back in 1966 when the mine stopped,what do you think would happen to the larger coastal communties,that has some of the best fishing imo in the freaking world.If it was a uranium mine and everyone started getting cancer so they shut the mine,do you think the company should get rid of all the uranium or something,thats a bit ridiculous imo.(or a lot)

But the original comment was about how the mining companies put so much back into communities, yet as i previously stated, they are only interested in setting up a community when that community set-up benefits the mine. Once the mine moves on they no longer care for that community or what they leave behind in it. The mines promote themselves as caring for the community, yet as soon as theres no longer a profit to be made, that community gets left in the dark ages

.

I may be able to agree with you being discriminated,though due to tax? can you explain that a bit more.

Gladly. If i choose not to have a child, shouldn't i recieve the similar payment as those who decide to have a child through the baby bonus ? Why does one lot get a payment [from the taxpayer] becuaswe of their lifestyle decision, but the other lot gets no assistance. This is just one of many examples




And if the Carbon tax gets passed onto the end user, like most of todays taxes, then isnt that even more reason why these mining magnates should be taxed more. The magnates profits go up and up and up, yet the everyday persons wealth gets smaller and smaller through taxes and extra charges being passed on down the line.




Absolutely you earn it honestly, you do as you see fit,I don`t care if your a mining magnate or other.

Then why do we ALL not have that rule apply to us ? Eventually you have to ask yourself "how much is enough ?"







So why not go after people who make it hard for people like banks who make billions per year not in a life time,not those who already do so much for people and the country as it is.Why not the Gov for poor management etc.

I totally agree, go after the banks, tax them accordingly, go after religion and tax them accordingly, but also go after the mines. That would only be fair !




We are different,there was a time in my life when I was extremely poor,I just didn`t begrudge those who had more than me,I worked my arse off and improved my situation.You sound as though you may be doing it tough,I`ve been there and if so I`d like to hear your circumstances change for the better in the future.

I hope you're not implying that i'm begrudging those who have more than me, if you are then you are completely missing my whole point and at no stage have i done this. I'm just pointing out the hypocracy of some of these mining magnates that have billions in the bank, yet jump up and down and carry on like spoilt brats when they dont get their own way, because they aren't use to being told 'no' ! Thats not begrudging someone, thats just stating the obvious !




When you take into account how expensive WA is to live in,population isn`t everything and by cutting the buget how is that fair? the fly in fly out guys on good wages get to go back to cheaper living,thats double dipping imo.

Have you seen the house prices in Sydney lately ? You might be in for a shock when you see the cost of living in NSW. And just out of curiousity, was WA always that expensive to live, or is it since the mining boom took off and people are cashing in at others expense ?





I'm not currently employed, because my position became redundant due to the steel industry that my town relied on all but dying. A simialr fate awaits those in the mining industry WHEN the bubble bursts !



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 07:31 AM
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Originally posted by AussieDingus
If WA is in a mining boom, then where did the money come from before the boom for cities like Perth and Fremantle, from other states and industry booms perhaps ??? And i haven't mentioned funding cuts in my post, so no, i don't have to show you anything.

Ok so then I`ll just have to acept that you can only make the assumtion.


Yeah just joking, but in all seriousness if i hear one more person say the mines are "crying out for workers" i think i will slap them back into reality.

It was when I was up there,we had to put up with a couple of so called tradesmen I wouldn`t even consider to be a first year apprentice, because getting more hands was too hard.Also too many guys just end up getting on the turps to all hours of the night and come in useless and we`d have to send them home,firstly your not allowed on site under the influence to start off with and they do drug screening and the place is too dangerous as well.

I know this is still the case in some places.


But the original comment was about how the mining companies put so much back into communities, yet as i previously stated, they are only interested in setting up a community when that community set-up benefits the mine. Once the mine moves on they no longer care for that community or what they leave behind in it.

Maybe it was that way in the past,the mines over here have strict environmental rules,BHP at Newman`s MT Whaleback are not allowed to leave anything behind when finished,the super pit will be filled with water,that pit is massive much bigger than it looks.
But minning communties such as Port Hedland will be around for a few life times for us to ever know one way or another what happens,there is so much ore up there.
I don`t have a bad word about BHP or any other company that I have worked with or for they have all been very proffesional and given a damn about the communities


Gladly. If i choose not to have a child, shouldn't i recieve the similar payment as those who decide to have a child through the baby bonus ? Why does one lot get a payment [from the taxpayer] becuaswe of their lifestyle decision, but the other lot gets no assistance. This is just one of many examples

Um?? because its supposed to be for the extra mouth and expenses,your first example is a very bad one.


And if the Carbon tax gets passed onto the end user, like most of todays taxes, then isnt that even more reason why these mining magnates should be taxed more. The magnates profits go up and up and up, yet the everyday persons wealth gets smaller and smaller through taxes and extra charges being passed on down the line.

The magnates are not responsable for putting taxs up thats what the Gov does to us and the magnates,even if the magnates income increases they still pay more on the interest of that money which they have to pay as an income tax.


I hope you're not implying that i'm begrudging those who have more than me, if you are then you are completely missing my whole point and at no stage have i done this.

Huh? after you repeately say because they have so much they should give more through higher taxs,thats not saying you are just pointing out their hypocracy in being spoilt brats.



And just out of curiousity, was WA always that expensive to live, or is it since the mining boom took off and people are cashing in at others expense ?

Um what caused Sydneys? do they have ore mines that I don`t know about.Its a property boom it started about 12 years ago here and has steadily gone up until just recently where it went backwards a bit.It will be a long time till another property boom like that to happen again.

Rents should come down with lower interest rates for people that are struggling I hope,but many hope the arse doesn`t fall out of the property market like what happened in the US,some predict it will.


I'm not currently employed, because my position became redundant due to the steel industry that my town relied on all but dying.

Then that makes it very tough,don`t mean to sound demeaning mate,but if your in a spot of bother,it costs not much to register a business go out buy a bucket and a squeegy put a ad in the paper and clean peoples windows,you`ll get about 80-100 bucks per average house,until you`ve saved enough to do what you want to do.

I know a guy who does that,he payed his property off by doing it,nice property and he says that his neighbours must think he sells drugs or something lol

There`s good money out there if your willing to do whatever,all the best Dingus.



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 08:28 AM
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tasmania will join ya's WA.

I'm sick of high rent prices and mainland investors who think there property is the @#!!, when it is the @#!! literally.
and now they are about to sell the property i'm in and expect to get there investment back and then some.
without fixing the problems, typical of people living in Melbourne not of this nationality.

So maybe we should re-divert bass link to WA, re-divert sprite of Tasmania to WA.

Yes our pace is fine if you wanna wait 45 mins for a sandwich, ask a yuppy to make one they will have too google it first.



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 08:01 PM
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Originally posted by gps777

Ok so then I`ll just have to acept that you can only make the assumtion.





Just as I'll accept you can't prove the "assumption" wrong !

It was when I was up there,we had to put up with a couple of so called tradesmen I wouldn`t even consider to be a first year apprentice, because getting more hands was too hard.Also too many guys just end up getting on the turps to all hours of the night and come in useless and we`d have to send them home,firstly your not allowed on site under the influence to start off with and they do drug screening and the place is too dangerous as well.

I know this is still the case in some places.



I don't dispute what you're saying, but i'm referring to bottom level entry jobs, or cleanskin jobs. from mining companies that claim they are "crying out for workers" and specifically refer to labouring roles, not just trades !
The mining culture had always been to get on the turps after work, but times have changed and those people have to change with it or find a new job !

Maybe it was that way in the past,the mines over here have strict environmental rules,BHP at Newman`s MT Whaleback are not allowed to leave anything behind when finished,But minning communties such as Port Hedland will be around for a few life times for us to ever know one way or another what happens,there is so much ore up there.
I don`t have a bad word about BHP or any other company that I have worked with or for they have all been very proffesional and given a damn about the communities



It was in the past because the fines and punishment was very low or non-existant so the mining companies just packed up and moved on knowing they would face little action. But the Laws have changed and become more strict. When the fine out weighs the clean up cost then the mining companies will always take the cheapest option.
Companies like BHP do NOT care about the communities they operate in, they care ONLY about their shareholders. Have you seen what happened with BHP in Newcastle ? Have you seen whats happening to BHP in Port Kembla ? When shareholders pressure BHP management, the first people affected are the workers who made the shareholders their profits in the first place ! Do sporting teams sack half their team because some people lost money betting on that team.....NO, so why should workers be laid off so someone gambling on the share market can make more profit ?

Um?? because its supposed to be for the extra mouth and expenses,your first example is a very bad one.



Um ?? My first example is a very good example and answered the question you ask !
Your example of an extra mouth to feed is completely missing the point i made. Did the parents not CHOOSE to bring an extra mouth into the world to feed ? Why should they be given a handout for their choice ? And what was the number one thing purchased through the baby bonus......Plasma TV's, i fail to see how that helps feed an extra mouth lol. And if they can't feed an extra mouth without the baby bonus, then why did they CHOOSE to have an extra mouth ???

The magnates are not responsable for putting taxs up thats what the Gov does to us and the magnates,even if the magnates income increases they still pay more on the interest of that money which they have to pay as an income tax.





Huh? after you repeately say because they have so much they should give more through higher taxs,thats not saying you are just pointing out their hypocracy in being spoilt brats.




Huh ? Name me ONE other person from ANY other industry thats threatening to split from the rest of the country because they didnt get their own way !

Um what caused Sydneys? do they have ore mines that I don`t know about.Its a property boom it started about 12 years ago here and has steadily gone up until just recently where it went backwards a bit.It will be a long time till another property boom like that to happen again.

Rents should come down with lower interest rates for people that are struggling I hope,but many hope the arse doesn`t fall out of the property market like what happened in the US,some predict it will.



I could be wrong, but didnt the mining boom also start approx. 12 years ago, give or take a year ? Planned or co-incidence ?



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 08:52 PM
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Originally posted by gps777

Then that makes it very tough,don`t mean to sound demeaning mate,but if your in a spot of bother,it costs not much to register a business go out buy a bucket and a squeegy put a ad in the paper and clean peoples windows,you`ll get about 80-100 bucks per average house,until you`ve saved enough to do what you want to do.

I know a guy who does that,he payed his property off by doing it,nice property and he says that his neighbours must think he sells drugs or something lol

There`s good money out there if your willing to do whatever,all the best Dingus.

No thats not demeaning at all and i appreciate the advice and am always open to new ideas. But what i think should hapopen is, people in financial hardship should be able to access their superannuation without being taxed at 60% or higher. Several years ago i tried to start a mobile car washing business, yet because i wasnt working at the time, the bank wouldnt give me a loan. But to start the business i needed either a cheap van, or ute, cleaning products, insurance, water spill kits, at least one generator, industrial strength vaccum and steam cleaner, money for advertising to promote the business. This left me with little option at the time but to pursue employment working for a company, which according to that company, was a great company to work for with a bright career future. When i first wanted to start the car wash company, there was only 2 other people in the phone book doing similar work, but today theres at least 40 other people doing the same job and i've heard from quite a few of them that they are all now under cutting each other just to get the work so they can break even at the end of the day !
Yet if i had access to MY superannuation, i could of started the business without any help from the bank and could of established myself in that market before the other 40 odd people started up. And who knows, i could of been earning enough to fund my own retirement and have no need for that superannuation when i retired !

I've even been to mining seminar's to see whats required of cleanskins. The person running the seminar should we should get this ticket and that ticket, do this course and that course. About 10 people in the seminar stood up and proved they have been doing all these things, and more, yet havent heard a thing from a mine in over 6 months, yet apparently, the mine's are "crying out for workers" ???

Several weeks ago, i applied for a bottom level entry job in WA, i then followed up my application with a phone call to WA, and was told by the boss of that company, that unless i was living in WA i won't get a start, and even if i did live in WA it wouldnt be any garauntee. Yet in my current financial position, i cannot afford to pack up and move just on the hope of getting a job.

I even applied for a job in a mining camp washing dishes just to get a foot in the door in the mining industry. I got a reply saying that i had no experience. Now, i'm not claiming to be the smartest person in the world, but I could learn that job in 2 hours flat, but if a company can't afford to spend 2 hours showing the ropes, then those companies need to come back to reality ! And if its a job that doesnt require a trade or qualification or degree, then doesn't "experience" start from the first day on the job ???

I went from having no experience as a machine operator, to working myself upto a Level 6 operator and operating a $2.5 million dollar machine with 45 munites of "training". I've worked as a storeman that had no experience to gaining Certificate 2 in logistics. Yet if i apply for a mining job as either a machine operator or storeman, it ALWAYS asks for a minimum of 1-2 years in the mining industry. A machine operator not working for a mine, is the same as a machine operator working for a mine, minus the mining inductions, which in all reality would take no more than a week to put a potential employee through. Its becoming all too common these days, to see companies not prepared to spend the time training people to get experince, but rather advertise a job and hope the perfect employee will just fall into their lap. And then they wonder why they say "we're crying out for workers" ! The reality is, they aren't crying out for workers, they're crying out for the perfect employee to fall into their lap so they don't have to spend the time and money training them upto an experienced level !
But someone needs to remind these companies that we do NOT live in a perfect world !



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 09:30 PM
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But then again, all this chat is pointless, because its just an empty threat to split from the rest of the country that will NOT be backed up, and is just another classic case of a mining boss taking his/her bat and ball because they didn't get their own way !
And has the person threatening to split from the rest of the country asked the rest of the state if they agree or disagree with splitting from the rest of the country, meaning that they would be forming a new country, no longer living in "Australia" and would basically all become ex-pats ? Has there been a vote or consensus about this topic, or has he just taken it upon himself to speak on behalf of a whole state just because he has his own agenda ? I don't see or hear many people in WA lining up to support these threats.
This threat is so baseless and idiotic that i can't believe one single person has fallen for it, let alone trying to promote it !



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 11:36 PM
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reply to post by AussieDingus
 

Keep trying Dingus your nearly there with the quote function mate,though your last one is back to front making it look like I said what you said. lol


Originally posted by AussieDingus
Just as I'll accept you can't prove the "assumption" wrong !

Thats not how it works your the person making the claim,its your job to back it up,I at least made this post showing WA`s history,which is way more than you`ve shown.



I don't dispute what you're saying, but i'm referring to bottom level entry jobs, or cleanskin jobs. from mining companies that claim they are "crying out for workers" and specifically refer to labouring roles, not just trades !
The mining culture had always been to get on the turps after work, but times have changed and those people have to change with it or find a new job !

Yeah I hear ya,it doesn`t help with so many coming over from New Zealand getting the jobs that Aussies would like to fill either,such as yourself.But at least they made the decision to come and live here to get the chance.
If they decide to go back to NZ do you think WA should still send them money for helping over here?


It was in the past because the fines and punishment was very low or non-existant so the mining companies just packed up and moved on knowing they would face little action. But the Laws have changed and become more strict. When the fine out weighs the clean up cost then the mining companies will always take the cheapest option.
Companies like BHP do NOT care about the communities they operate in, they care ONLY about their shareholders.

This I have not seen myself,I have seen the workers for BHP go out on strike because of not enough flavours of ice cream.They`re are a freakin joke some times.Unions sometimes give me the #es.

I know what your saying though and I`m sure your right in what you`ve seen over there in the past,its just I havn`t over here.The same with BP`s oil spills for example over in the US,yeah some of these big companies get away with murder.


Have you seen what happened with BHP in Newcastle ?

That was the steel mill wasn`t it from years ago? a still mill here closing down to me in this country is outrageous,I`m not sure of the ins and outs of it,but I shake my head in utter disbelief on it.


Um ?? My first example is a very good example and answered the question you ask !
Your example of an extra mouth to feed is completely missing the point i made. Did the parents not CHOOSE to bring an extra mouth into the world to feed ? Why should they be given a handout for their choice ? And what was the number one thing purchased through the baby bonus......Plasma TV's, i fail to see how that helps feed an extra mouth lol. And if they can't feed an extra mouth without the baby bonus, then why did they CHOOSE to have an extra mouth ???

Do you also disagree with the first home buyers grant? heck its supposed to give people a hand to get going.

Though I also agree with you,because the baby bonus is abused by some women or parents who use kids as an income,this needs to stop.5 billion a year is spent on single mums on welfare,last night on 9`s acurrent affair they had 5 mums that they interviewed who asked for their welfare to be stopped (they must get enough child support from dad) and they want to work(I salute them),yet the Gov agencies won`t,its like the Gov want to have welfare dependant people here.



Huh ? Name me ONE other person from ANY other industry thats threatening to split from the rest of the country because they didnt get their own way !

I can`t keep repeating myself,it was our Premiere who made the threat,not the mining magnate,you keep banging on about.



I could be wrong, but didnt the mining boom also start approx. 12 years ago, give or take a year ? Planned or co-incidence ?

I`m sure jobs had some play in it,but if Sydneys boom happened without a minning boom,you saying ours had to happen just because of minning seems biased.



posted on May, 24 2012 @ 01:33 AM
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Originally posted by gps777
reply to post by AussieDingus


Thats not how it works your the person making the claim,its your job to back it up,I at least made this post showing WA`s history,which is way more than you`ve shown.

I did not make a claim, i asked you a question, a question to which i still havent recieved a valid response to. The question was "if WA is in a mining boom, then where did the money come from before the mining boom for cities like Perth and Fremantle, from other states and industry booms perhaps ? "
Did you notice the words like "if", "where" and "perhaps", or maybe the question mark at the end ? I made no claim what so ever. I was asking you, how do YOU think states like WA came to be before the mining boom. I was just curious as to what your answer to this question would be, considering the stance that you take !


If they decide to go back to NZ do you think WA should still send them money for helping over here?


Is the person making these idle threats referring to splitting from Australia, or New Zealand ? A New Zealander has every right to come here and work if he/she can find a job. Single employment is different to comparing the sharing of profits by states at a national level !
If NZ, as a country, not an individual, had of provided funding to WA in the past, then they would have every right to demand some sort of return, just as other states in Australia have, and unless WA is some sort of super state that has entirely funded itself with no assistance from other states or at a federal level, then why should they get to make these threats because its their turn to pay out their fair share ? As i said before, we have a cyclic system where at times one state may be experiencing a boom while another state is in decline, over a course of time it should roughly even out. Stop looking at this from a WA point of view, and look at it from an Australian point of view.
If people want to make threats of splitting from Australia, then what do they seriously expect the rest of Australia to say, other than don't let the door hit your ass on the way out ? If WA wants to split, then go for it, but we both know it will NOT happen, so why make the threats in the first place ?



That was the steel mill wasn`t it from years ago? a still mill here closing down to me in this country is outrageous,I`m not sure of the ins and outs of it,but I shake my head in utter disbelief on it.


Thats correct, but it was a steel mill that was the lifeblood of Newcastle, just like the Port Kembla steelworks was the lifeblood of the Illawarra. I used these examples to prove that BHP does not care about the community, and that entire cities can be brought to their knees all in the interest of the shareholder regardless of what type of economical proaganda these companies and directors try and spin !



Do you also disagree with the first home buyers grant? heck its supposed to give people a hand to get going.

Though I also agree with you,because the baby bonus is abused by some women or parents who use kids as an income,this needs to stop.5 billion a year is spent on single mums on welfare,last night on 9`s acurrent affair they had 5 mums that they interviewed who asked for their welfare to be stopped (they must get enough child support from dad) and they want to work(I salute them),yet the Gov agencies won`t,its like the Gov want to have welfare dependant people here.

Excellent question, no i do not agree with the first home buyers grant for several reasons. Firstly, their should be a limit to the value of the house if you are claiming the first home buyers grant. If you want to buy a $600,000 house or more, you can't claim you need an extra $14,000 to help. Here on the east coast, when the first home buyer grant came out, guess what happened.........the stamp duty went up instantly, and whatever assistance people thought they were getting got swallowed up in red tape. Secondly, If the Governemnt has the funds to hand out first home buyer grants and baby bonuses, doesnt that mean they have enough to reduce taxes across the board ?




I can`t keep repeating myself,it was our Premiere who made the threat,not the mining magnate,you keep banging on about.

And you seriously don't think he was speaking on behalf of the mining magnates and protecting his own interests ? I don't see any mining magnates distancing themselves from his comments




Sorry for the replies and stuffing up the quoting, but you seem to pick apart everything i say so i guess you're not having too much problem reading what you wrote compared to what i wrote lol !



[/quot



posted on May, 24 2012 @ 01:38 AM
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Whether its the premier or a mining magnate making the threats to split from Australia is irrelevant, either way its an idle threat that will NOT be backed up and both of us know it. So i guess until it does happen then its all talk, and anyone agreeing it should or will happen is clearly living in a fantasy world !
Has all of WA been asked for their opinion, or is it just others trying to speak on their behalf based on their own opinion ?



posted on May, 24 2012 @ 03:44 AM
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Originally posted by gps777

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
You are right. But remember...a partnership with the United States...which right now is strongly coming out of this long term economic quandry...is Australias best chance to develop the interior of your country. I have been to Australia many times and the people are very similar to those in the U.S.

I`ve heard people talking about this in the past,but for me I like Australia as it is as far as population goes.


We have a reputation as one of the least intelligent, and most politically apathetic populations on the planet, and in my experience, said reputation is justified. Australians are morons, to a large extent; and the worst part of it is, that said lack of intelligence is also generally considered a source of pride.

When I was playing World of Warcraft, the worst servers in the game in terms of the people were the Oceanics; and I can remember when on IRC during the 1990s, when talking to an international audience, the fastest way for me to lose credibility in an argument, was for people to find out that I was from Australia.

The lucky country? In many respects, yes.
The clever country? Hell no.



posted on May, 24 2012 @ 04:31 AM
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reply to post by petrus4
 


I really don`t mind,what I do know is its easy to confuse intelligence with poorly educated,those that confuse that are usually arrogant and to full of themselves in their higher learning to realise it.Proper morons I have known and were some of the nicest people I`ve ever met.

Thats why I like simple people the best,if that makes me a moron in others eyes,fine.


edit on 24-5-2012 by gps777 because: grammer because I`m a moron lol



posted on May, 24 2012 @ 06:46 AM
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Originally posted by AussieDingus
I did not make a claim, i asked you a question, a question to which i still havent recieved a valid response to. The question was "if WA is in a mining boom, then where did the money come from before the mining boom for cities like Perth and Fremantle, from other states and industry booms perhaps ? "

Oh I see how it works then,you guys can make all the claims you like against WA one called us a basket case in years gone by and thats fair if its a in a form of a veiled question that you can`t back up.
In this post in the link I provided because your not willing to show anything or search yourself,if you bothered to read it you`d find answers your asking in this very quote,or am I supposed to read it for you?


If NZ, as a country, not an individual, had of provided funding to WA in the past, then they would have every right to demand some sort of return, just as other states in Australia have, and unless WA is some sort of super state that has entirely funded itself with no assistance from other states

Thats what I`ve been saying,where has WA needed or got help from other states,in the very early days we got help from the Crown,thats all I`ve found.But you think its up to me to prove you wrong? I`m supposed to believe just your opinions?.
I`ve been here about 50 years,its news to me we were a basket case,how long ago was this? or is it just more insults from east to west? proving that we should split.


then why should they get to make these threats because its their turn to pay out their fair share ?

Our turn,fair share?,for the population of WA we pay more than our fair share to the country and ask you again to show where we have not.


As i said before, we have a cyclic system where at times one state may be experiencing a boom while another state is in decline, over a course of time it should roughly even out. Stop looking at this from a WA point of view, and look at it from an Australian point of view.

OH I am,I wonder what say? Queenslanders would have to say, if people from all other states went there on mass and took well paying jobs in fly in fly out that some from Queensland wanted,then as you say property and prices go up,have their state funding cut and call them a pack a whingers while going home to their states etc then comments like "if your doing it tough Queensland stop your spending" lol talk about ungrateful hypocritical BS.
Perth deserves a make over and to be put on the map.


If people want to make threats of splitting from Australia, then what do they seriously expect the rest of Australia to say, other than don't let the door hit your ass on the way out ? If WA wants to split, then go for it

Its comments like that that push us away,I have stated I didn`t want it to happen and think its empty,but could be wrong.
We`ll have to wait and see over the next twenty years to see how true it is....(from the OP)


"That's not a threat. It's reality," Mr Barnett said.
While he said a formal separation from the rest of Australia was not on the agenda, relations with Canberra would become "negligible" if revenue created in the state kept being shifted east.
And he said the ramifications would not just be for the national economy, but for the broader Australian society including sport.
"There would be very little relationship and the WA economy would be fully integrated as part of Asia," he said.
"It's a trend you may see over the next 20 years.



Excellent question, no i do not agree with the first home buyers grant for several reasons. Here on the east coast, when the first home buyer grant came out, guess what happened.the stamp duty went up instantly.

In one hand out the other with the stamp duty,yeah I can agree to that.Though I don`t agree you should be entiltled to the baby bonus for your choice on not to have a baby.Means testing the first home buyers grant and the baby bonus I could go along with.
But you probably think your discriminated aganist as in the baby bonus for not buying a house and should get $14,000 anyway.


And you seriously don't think he was speaking on behalf of the mining magnates and protecting his own interests ? I don't see any mining magnates distancing themselves from his comments

What would it benifit the magnates (that you keep going on about?) if WA split and who have you seen backing it to say one way or another? its just more assumptions.
Its magnate this magnate that,did they kick in your dunny door or something? damn mining companies they`re scum!! but can I come work for ya? Bastards won`t hire me?
Its not cheap to run a business and employ people in Australia,business`s don`t like to go backwards,maybe the Gov should have helped in those areas and more doors would have stayed open.
edit on 24-5-2012 by gps777 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 24 2012 @ 12:18 PM
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A thread thats just come up and could be related to these discusions...

China Warns Australia to Choose “Godfather” – China or U.S

If the US wasn`t on our soil I doubt we would be hearing these ultimatums from China,thanks America your a real treat,but can you leave now?



posted on May, 24 2012 @ 07:34 PM
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reply to post by gps777
 


Yet again you accuse me of making claims. I'll ask you the question again and say again i'm asking to see what your answer is, as you still haven't given me an answer, but rather keep accusing me of making claims.
"If WA is in a mining boom, then where did the funds come from for cities like Perth and Fremantle before the mining boom ?", that is NOT a claim, its a question. You don't have to answer the question, but stop accusing me of claiming it as true when i have done no such thing. I'm just curious as to where you think WA's funding came from before the boom !

I cannot prove that WA did recieve funding from other states or at a federal level raised from other states and i am not claiming they did, but just as you cannot prove they havent ! But WA has acknowledged that its heavily reliant on the mining boom, but the question is where did the funding come from BEFORE the mining boom.

And does this link that you claim as undeniable proof include every cent of funding ever recieved by WA, if not, then why should i take it as proof or gospel just because you presented it ?

I don't see premiers of any other states threatening to split from Australia, and according to you QLD doesn't get their "fair share" either, yet where is the QLD Premier making these empty threats ? And thats the whole point here, it is an EMPTY threat and you and i both know it, and thats what this thread was about, so why are we still going back and forth over the same points ? Its an empty threat that has no realistic chance of occuring. And we both know threats mean NOTHING unless backed up with action.........so where's the action to back up the threats ?

In regard's to the fair share comment that wind's you up so much, again i will point back to the earlier comment about looking at things from an Australia point of view instead of a WA point of view. You earlier suggested to me that i should just pack up and move to WA for work, well i put the same question to you, if WA has it as bad as you claim, then whats stopping you from moving from WA to one of the other states that apparently have it so much better than WA ?

And no you're wondering what QLDer's would say to us ungrateful hypocrites, as you called it, but i'll ask again, where is the QLD Premier making threats to split from the rest of country ? Or are you just like the WA Premier that likes to speak on behalf of a whole state despite not asking for their opinion as a whole first ? Hypocrite perhaps ? Two can play you game champ


And now you have the hide to say my comment about telling a Premier to back up his threats is what "pushes you away" lol, wow, just wow ! I'm not the one who made the threats am i, yet when i ask him to back up his threats i'm the bad guy..............ahhh ok then ???? When someone makes threats to seperate from the rest of the country, what do you seriously expect the rest of the country to say, other than don't let the door hit your ass on the way out ? Would you like the other states to throw you a farewell party ? Or maybe the other states can get one of those really big farewell cards from the newsagency and we can all sign it for you if it makes you feel more wanted ?

You provide a quote from the Premier saying "thats not a threat, thats reality", despite nothing to back up this reality, then at the end of the quote it says "its a trend you MAY see over the next 20 years", its funny how in the same quote it goes from not being a threat and being reality, to it MAY be seen over the next 20 years. This is classic political talk where they make a threat, say its reality, but then word it with "may" so technically they can never be wrong ! The question is............why do people still allow themselves to fall for this more than obvious political stunt ?

As for the baby bonus issue, i repsect you opinion in thinking i shouldnt get a pay out for not having a baby. And i totally agree with having a means test for all potential parents, and i believe having a child is a privialge and NOT a right as so many people seem to think. But until a means test does come in, these baby bonus payments are rewarded those for making a lifestyle decision, so why shouldnt those who have made a lifestyle decision in the opposite way not be entitled to it until a means test come in ?
And doesn't it seem a little strange that we have a Government bringing in a Carbon Tax due to "our Carbon footprint", but then thorws money at people for bringing more footprints into the world and technically adding to the problem ?



posted on May, 24 2012 @ 08:25 PM
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reply to post by gps777
 


In regards to the Premiers threats, do you honestly believe that the Premier hasnt been in consultation with the mining magnates about this issue, and again, where are the mining magnates distancing himself from these comments. And why would a mining magnate come out and publicly make these threats, when they could talk a politician into saying it for them. I'm NOT saying this DID happen, but there's no proof to say it didn't, and until then i will keep my options open.

And instead of this Premier speaking on behalf of a whole state without a vote or referrendum, he should do what a politician is supposed to do and re-present their state, not represent, but re-present. But how can you speak on behalf or re-present someone when you havent asked them or had a vote ? Wouldn't it make perfect logical sense to have a vote statewide first before making these threats ? If the majority of the state agree with him, then go forward and back up the threats, but if the majority say they are against his threats, then why make the threats in the first place, which has been the whole point of my argument since my first post, yet here we still are going over the same points over and over ?

So i stand by my original comments of, until he asks the whole state in a vote, then he has no right to speak on their behalf, and his empty threats will remain nothing but empty threats. And does the Premier have a blueprint for this new country that wants to from in WA ? Will he appoint himself the new Prime Minister or President, what tax laws will the new country have, and what will the Premiers "back up" plan be if the mining boom crashes and the funds dry up ? Is there a name for this new founded country ? Has he said what type of currency they will use ? These are some very simple and logical questions to prove how stupid these threats are, and how little thought has been put into this.

So its time for this Premier to put up, or shut up. And going by the lack of media attention to such a threat, it appears many others see it as an empty threat to. You'd think a state threatening to seperate from the rest of Australia would be front page news and all over every channel ? But then again, why waste a front apge spot on a topic that clearly has no substance or credibility. And those trying to promote these empty threats are actually hurting their own credibility, but have got the blinkers on and can't see the forest for the tree's !

How about we just agree to disagree and get on with our lives rather than engage in these tit for tat replies, which at the end of the day are in response to an empty threat with no credibility or realistic chance of happeneing ? But thats the beauty of living in Australia, we both get to have our say, but will the new country formed out of WA, that MAY be seen in 20 years offer that same privilage to its new found countrymen ?
I guess these questions MAY be answered over the next 20 years lol

We can keep going back and forward, or we can agree that its an empty threat until backed up with proof and/or action !



posted on May, 24 2012 @ 09:48 PM
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We are all in this together



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