Where has all the money gone?

I find it odd that all these nations (including the United States) are getting themselves neck deep in debt and going broke... yet no one seems to ask where all the money is going. We have this global financial meltdown on our hands, everyone is going bankrupt, but no one seems to realize money doesn't just disappear... it doesn't vanish into thin air, it just changes hands. So I must ask myself where is it all going, who is getting rich from the suffering of all our nations? Just where is it all going?

That is something which I posted in another thread not long ago... and it really got me thinking about where all the money may actually be going. Now that I really think about it, the money isn't actually going anyway, it's being eaten away by debts which generate interest. Let me explain with a simple example.

Assume we only have two people in the world, whom I shall refer to as "Party A" and "Party B". Now assume there's a total of 100 dollars in the world, and Party A holds 80 dollars, while Party B obviously holds 20 dollars.

Now lets say Party B feels the need to have more money, so he asks Party A for a loan. Party A agrees to loan Party B 20 dollars, but only if Party B pays 5% interest on his debt each month. This means that Party B will need to pay back more than 20 dollars.

After paying back the debt, Party B will most likely be left with a very small amount of money, so Party B decides to loan another 20 dollars from Party A. This time, Party B actually doesn't have enough money to keep paying interest on the loan.

However, in a miracle, Party C arrives, and he has the ability to create new money out of thin air! This shall surely solve all their problems, shouldn't it? But there's a catch, Party C will only give new money to people if they agree to pay it back, with interest on top!

Facing bankruptcy, and having no other choice, Party B agrees to loan 20 dollars from Party C. Now we have a total of 120 dollars in circulation. The main effect of this extra money, is that it causes all the existing money to be worth less.

So knowing this, Party A raises the interest rate on his loan to Party B (it was in the contract). Now Party B must pay 10% interest each month to Party A. Having this extra money from Party C, Party B is able to pay off his debt to Party A quickly.

But now Party B is in debt to Party C, and after paying off his debt to Party A, he doesn't have much money left, certainly not enough to pay off his debt to Party C. But now that Party B is so broke, Party A refuses to lend any more money to Party B.

And since Party C is the only one who can create more money, there's only one option left for Party B. So in an act of ludicrous desperation, Party B lends even more money from Party C... so that he can pay back Party C.

The End.

So in conclusion, what I am saying here, is that debt which requires interest to be payed, assumes the existence of money that doesn't necessarily exist. The only way to solve the debt problem is to wipe out all debt and make it illegal to make loans which require interest to be payed. There is simply no other option when you look at the raw logic of how it works.

Its not actual folding money, its electronic, so it can be shifted from account to account untill who's looking for it gives up, or forgets what he is looking for, or it can be converted into folding money, and end up it suitcases in Mexico, or the other corrupt nations on this planet, another thing is buying shares at $100 each, and next month they are worth $10.00 each, they are paid for electronically, so the $90.00 never really existed to start with.

reply to post by ChaoticOrder


In the pockets of the wealthy...you heard of trickle down economics right? Well it's really the reverse of that. or you can hold a pyramid upsidedown to get a idea...see it all flows to the point and faster than going the other way.

I get the feeling neither of you guys actually took the time to read my example and consider the meaning of it.

How odd to find this thread. I have a friend at the bank and he told me just a few weeks ago about money just disappearing. The mint is working over time to print money. It seems a lot of people are saving money but not in any bank. It may not only be people stock piling money but maybe businesses and corporations. He said that he heard talk about if large amounts of this stock piled money was to re-enter the market it could be bad news. So if you add this on top of everything esle it does not look good at all.

reply to post by ChaoticOrder

The fear stops the money flow from the rich to the poor. Debt is not a bad thing in its self, Its how its used. The rich don't want the risk with it, even though all money made has risk with it. So when things get tight people put there money in the safest place. At times like this, is the best time to make money, because you know the Fed. will print until they get the money flowing again. Then inflation is going to sky rocket driving up asset values that all the banks own, and the smart investors have been buying. They will print what ever it takes. But the evil is the manipulation of it to take advantage unjustly.

reply to post by mikeprodigy

Debt is not a bad thing in its self

Correct, debt isn't a bad thing in its self... but it's a bad thing when interest is attached because the money required to pay that interest DOES NOT EXIST. That is the whole point of my example. And I even took it a step further by showing how ridiculous it is when the Government tries to loan money from the FED, whom creates money out of thin air, just so they can pay back the interest on the loans to the FED!!! It's like a loop of nonsensical absurdity. We are all driving ourselves into this financial crises because when we take on debt with interest, we are promising to pay back money which doesn't exist... by issuing that loan, and then requesting more than they issue, they expect new money to be created, and thus we inevitably go back the person who can create more money. I cannot make this anymore simpler.

reply to post by ChaoticOrder

I don.t think the interest in its self is evil its just needs to be regulated not to exceed 2.5%, when its anything over that it should be a crime. Along time ago it actually was 1% because it was considered evil to make more than that for not working for it. So the PTB the banks used government to change it and this is the outcome. I believe the people all over the world are starting to understand this and will change it through the vote I hope. We need leaders that are for the people by the people.

The money is going to the few people on this planet who own private institutions that are global. Coca Cola, Microsoft, Apple, Verizon, News International, General Motors, Glaxton Smith-Klyne, McDonalds, BP and many many more. The shareholders and executives of companies like these get richer and richer whilst the rest get poorer.

reply to post by ChaoticOrder


Every dollar that's printed already has debt on it... so even if there existed 2000 trillion you would still have the debt on top which means that you can never pay back the full amount since all money in existence is a loan from a certain few,That means there will never be enough money. Interest, Such a scam.

There is no money. They created money that doesn't exist and the real money is in the pockets of a half a dozen people. Their real money is only ten percent of what all the outstanding debts are though. If we just look at what the stockmarket and banking systems are it becomes evident we have created wealth with no backing. Living a lie.

reply to post by MoneyIsWorthless


Check out and do the research on how paper money was created, and then how banks came about. Its a story that could be made into a movie. The corruption,sex,and greed all Hollywood needs for a good movie just sad it does not have a happy ending.

reply to post by mikeprodigy


I have researched the issue quite a lot, And I agree with you. One day when money isn't in our system anymore there will certainly be movies in how it was created and how it took over the world in such a way. I've seen monkeys acting the exact same way as us when introduced with "tokens" and we aren't that far from them so it doesn't shock me when I see how they became greedy etc.

Originally posted by MoneyIsWorthless
reply to post by mikeprodigy

 

.... I've seen monkeys acting the exact same way as us when introduced with "tokens" ....

What?

Your saying you've seen a monkey lend out tokens to other monkeys, then applied an interest until he own all the tokens?

Thats amazing

reply to post by ChaoticOrder


Not really sure what you're asking?

European national debts display a considerable decline in taxable revenue, resulting in government debts.

The middle class is "broke" due to inflation and over taxation, as well as loss of employment.

American national debt is due to a decline in taxable income and expanded bailout programs.. most of the US Debts being sold are monetization (printing money) ... it's inflation, that's all.

There WAS a massive vacuum of wealth caused by a derivative collapse that literally did destroy a significant amount of "wealth".

You have to understand that the vast majority of "wealth" is speculated wealth ... you can have $4million in stocks but it's not actually $4 dollars.. it's hypothetical until you sell it. So if someone offers you 10% less than face value, the difference "disappears"

reply to post by Kr0nZ


Not exactly I am talking about this clip here on TED, Pretty interesting, blog.ted.com...

Yes. You are essentially correct.

Our current system where currency created is created as debt by private banks is ultimately unstable.

Capitalism is good, competition is good, but money should not be created as debt by private banks.

We need a return to a full reserve banking system.

where is all the money being printed go...


corporations hold an estimated $2Trillion plus & have a continuous siphon that pumps money into their treasury

401k & IRAs have over $17 Trillion in amassed money with more going in than going out usually

there is over $250 Trillion in derivatives held by financial institutions, and they both create new ones and receive payouts on part of that each month a 'trigger' happens

the never ending War-on-terror spends over $1 Trillion per year

it takes more money now to buy an ounce of precious metals than it did 12 years ago, gold for instance requires 6.2 times more dollars today than in Y2K ($250. vs. $1,550.)

and of course your own answer- 'debt' -debt service on the national debt is around $600Billion year right now

all those things factor in to cause dollar depreciation/ aka: inflation
very little is hoarded because that is a losing proposition by over 10% per year, money is constantly being spent/shuffled around/ speculated/ invested... all created money finds it's own niche eventually

~and we all hope that it will retain it's comparative value in the niche we put ours in, at least those of us who think in terms of the future~