Karma and Duality are philosophies of evil

I'm sorry but this post failed, as soon as the heading was conceived.

If you believe in evil then you are way off track on this topic. Karma as a concept of cause and effect is a Universal Law - it permeates all of life and creation. Evil is a man made idea, a way of trying to understand the nature of human behaviour.

For some Karma is confusing and hard to comprehend because they try to apply 'time' to it, when time is also just another human construct. As spirits we are constantly evolving here on Earth and in all our other realms and dimensions we exist in, and Karma is our teacher. Best to give her an apple and say thank-you.

Peace Out

reply to post by arpgme

I can not "prove" that karma is evil since that is my perspective based on my values and my value is FREEDOM.

however, it is heartless. If you do evil you will be given evil to you. There is no forgiveness with karma. If you do things or others, you will get things in return, this will make people dull and heartless doing things only for their own benefit instead of from their heart.

It builds a SLAVE mentality, if something bad is happening in your life, you can just blame it on karma instead of doing something...

Interesting perspective, but I believe you are wrong on several points here. My main value is Freedom also, Freedom from the chains of religious dogma. The Law of Karma does not in any way whatsoever breed a slave mentality, in fact, that is what Christian dogma does, breed a slave mentality, do this or else, commit a sin and go to Hell, fear everything.....
Every single thing I do, including posting on this board, come from the heart. And I am not like the average religious person either, blaming every bad thing on the Devil, or Demons, I do not place blame at all, on anything. To do so is redundant. And there is no invisible man in the sky forgiving anyone here, that is your job, forgiving your own self, after all it will be you judging your own self. This assigning everything to God is going to be the downfall of Christianity, once they all find out the truth of the matter.

As I have said here, the world of duality is not a physical thing. It is just a description of the blank world.

Originally posted by autowrench

Every single thing I do, including posting on this board, come from the heart. And I am not like the average religious person either, blaming every bad thing on the Devil, or Demons, I do not place blame at all, on anything. To do so is redundant. And there is no invisible man in the sky forgiving anyone here, that is your job, forgiving your own self, after all it will be you judging your own self. This assigning everything to God is going to be the downfall of Christianity, once they all find out the truth of the matter.

Exactly, a lot of people are just blaming karma or God for everything in their lives instead of doing something for themselves. I agree with you there.

reply to post by arpgme


If one does an evil act, how can one avoid an evil effect? When you harm someone, are you not harming yourself?

reply to post by juveous


If you are saying that we are all one, there there is no such thing as good or evil action at all, everything is just moving energy.

Originally posted by arpgme
reply to post by juveous

 

If you are saying that we are all one, there there is no such thing as good or evil action at all, everything is just moving energy.

Indeed. Good and evil are just words.

Originally posted by arpgme
reply to post by juveous

 

If you are saying that we are all one, there there is no such thing as good or evil action at all, everything is just moving energy.

That is one way of looking at it, but not what I was saying. Although it requires a discussion on the nature of what is evil by circumstance, I am saying that the effect follows the intent. If I intend on doing wrong, but fail, it is karma. If I intend on doing wrong, and succeed, it is karma because the wrong has been carried out. Only an ignorant man can intend to do good, and do wrong. Granted there are enough moral dilemmas to put us in enough cognitive dissonance to confuse good with evil.

Good and evil are labels of experience, not logic, but language allows for us to interchange connotations etc. So we can evaluate how we feel and then apply that to situations that ultimately come back to that feeling.

reply to post by arpgme


It is the belief in good that makes you feel as though you are bad.
You were born into the religion of 'be good'. Everywhere you go you will hear the words 'be good', even ET said 'be good'!!
Everyone is frightened of being bad.
Don't believe you are good and don't believe you are bad. Just be.

Karma is not "Evil" it is Neutral.Only through your "Dharma" can Karma be given any aspect of Subjectivity.

Originally posted by ErroneousDylan

Originally posted by arpgme
reply to post by juveous

 

If you are saying that we are all one, there there is no such thing as good or evil action at all, everything is just moving energy.

Indeed. Good and evil are just words.

They imply actions, born of intention.
It is not the word we are contemplating but the action they describe.
Good or Evil still exists even without the descriptor.
Everything may be just moving energy, but, your creative force is able to pick up the bundle of atoms/energy that is a knife and stab another person, or, leave it where it is and no one gets hurt.
You are not inert, You choose what your energy does or does not.
Good and Evil describe an array of possibilities in both the inert and active Nature of Life.

Thats what i think anyhow.

Originally posted by ErroneousDylan

Originally posted by arpgme
reply to post by juveous

 

If you are saying that we are all one, there there is no such thing as good or evil action at all, everything is just moving energy.

Indeed. Good and evil are just words.

You right that good and evil are based on viewpoint and not really a useful measure. But ego parasitic (service to self not matter the concequeances) vs service to all can be meassured by logic (service to self that is not parasitic is service to all since it servers you and the all at the same time).

I agree with arpgme (if this is what he means or something like it) that to much acceptance of bad things is a lack of wanting to change/evolve. If a world can be in a bad state for most of the people then it can change and be in a healthy state for all the people. Accepting to much ego corruption leeds to inaction and continuation of a less healthy state.

Karma is used as a tool of teaching and should be seen as that. There is no need for the karma when the lesson have been understood. Sometimes people who do not deserve bad things to happen to them need these things to happen to shape them.

Originally posted by nimbinned
I'm sorry but this post failed, as soon as the heading was conceived.

If you believe in evil then you are way off track on this topic. Karma as a concept of cause and effect is a Universal Law - it permeates all of life and creation. Evil is a man made idea, a way of trying to understand the nature of human behaviour.

For some Karma is confusing and hard to comprehend because they try to apply 'time' to it, when time is also just another human construct. As spirits we are constantly evolving here on Earth and in all our other realms and dimensions we exist in, and Karma is our teacher. Best to give her an apple and say thank-you.

Peace Out

I always call karma a bitch. But I think of her as "my bitch" and love her very much.

reply to post by arpgme

If your house has dirty rooms, you can just say "this is duality" and leave it dirty and stay in the clean rooms.

I live in my dirty room. I guess I'm not much of a dualist.

Originally posted by arpgme
If you believe in duality, you believe that EVIL will always exist. You might as well not care about the world, but just yourself and your close ones, do nothing for the earth.

We'll leave this for now, this is your conclusion, so let's examine the premises first.

If your house has dirty rooms, you can just say "this is duality" and leave it dirty and stay in the clean rooms.

Hmm, really? How is this a conclusion of belief in duality? Looking at the 3 pages of replies, the accepted definition of duality or our ascriptions of "good" and "bad" are along the lines of Expressivism.

Expressivism is the view that "good" and "bad" are not objective, they are labels that we use from a subjective perception. It shows how one thing can be "bad" for me, but "good" for you; the labels we apply are relative, as they reflect our own values, which are in turn brought about by own experiences, upbringing, environment - etc. Essentially, saying something is "bad" is saying "I don't like that", which I agree with. Maybe you do not...

Either way, whether Duality be this subjective application of "good" and "bad" or a reference to objective objects (which I think needs to be shown to exist...) Why would you say "this is duality" when confronted with a dirty room? If the person in this example feels that a dirty room is a "negative" thing - then they are simply saying "im not going to do anything about this negative environment" - which has NOTHING to do with a belief in duality...

To drive the point home on this one, imagine the person is your example is a monist - why would this change whether the person decides to clean the room or not? I don't think it does - but would be happy to be shown otherwise...

This is a philosophy of cowardice. It can even make you lazy and apathetic.

Again, this is another conclusion - which you have not justified yet, so I am going to continue with the rest of your post...

Karma is heartless and evil. If you believe that if you do good, good will come back to, then you are only doing good for yourself, not from your heart to help others. If you believe that bad will lead to bad, then you will become unforgiving and merciless.

1) Karma is heartless and evil
2) If you believe that if you do good, good will come back to, then you are only doing good for yourself, not from your heart to help .
3) If you believe that bad will lead to bad, then you will become unforgiving and merciless.

(1) is really the conclusion. Is (1) supported by (2) and (3)? I don't believe it is.

(2) Suggests that people's motives for doing "good" are selfish, rather than altruistic.
(3) Suggests that people would lack empathy or compassion due to the belief that "people get what they deserve".

(2*) - And? Please show how "good" actions require altruistic motives...the onus is on you. I can give an example of a "good" - "selfish" action...

Consider a homeless person, hungry and asking for change. Person A gives the homeless person money, while on a subconscious level believing / hoping that because they done that action "good" will come to them. on

Is the homeless person not better off? Are they not now in a position to buy food and rid themselves of hunger pains? Is this not a "good" thing?

I suppose the discussion here is of intent vs consequence. Which would actually lead to a good debate - so please, respond with some substance!

(3*) This cannot be the case. A belief is a belief, a capacity or ability, is just that - an ability. A belief can determine how you EXERCISE that ability, but cannot remove it. Therefore, to conclude that a belief in "people get what they deserve" would cause everybody to be unforgiving has yet to be shown.

You need to show how the belief "people get what they deserve" NECESSARILY means that nobody would exercise their ability for empathy. AGAIN, the onus is on you...

A person can have a SLAVE-LIKE mentality due to karma. They can feel bad about themselves and blame it on karma.

Yeah? Is this not the same for anything?

I didn't do my homework because I was lazy.
I have been brought up to belief in hard work.
Therefore, I feel guilty because I did not work hard.

I then go on to work harder because of my emotion of guilt. Is this not a "slave-like" mentality? If it is, then where are you going with this point? That's life....its how our brains have evolved. Emotions spur us to act...the emotions are brought about by complex, value-orientated brain processing...

Again, where is your point here?....How does Monism mean we wouldn't behave this way? Why is behaving this way a "bad" thing...

It seems your conclusions are loaded with suppressed value judgements of "this is a bad thing"...which in itself is a dualistic notion - is it not?

Peace,

Originally posted by arpgme
If you believe in duality, you believe that EVIL will always exist. You might as well not care about the world, but just yourself and your close ones, do nothing for the earth.

As I said, I am just going to give this a quick once over, so that you see the error in logic. I am however, looking forward to a reply regarding "good" actions and whether it be dependent upon intent vs consequence.

Right, your argument is this:

1) Duality maintains the necessary existence of both Good and Evil. (this is one aspect of dualism, but ok.)
2) Our actions cannot change this duality itself.
3) Therefore, we should not act in such a way as to try and reduce "Evil" in the world.

Can you see how there is a huge jump in reasoning from (2) to (3)...i.e. your argument is not valid. Your premises do not guarantee the conclusion. If the conclusion was:

(3**) Therefore, we should not and cannot, act in such a way as to remove duality.

Then, that makes sense. Note however, this new conclusion does not entail that we should not care about the world and help others...we cannot change the nature of duality, i.e. that it will always exist...but it does not mean that we cannot change how this duality is expressed.

Peace,