The future of Freemasonry

The them refers to the detractors of masonry. If someone can show me one thing that Freemasons have done wrong, factually, i would be willing to reverse my opinion.

Envy is the keyword here.

Gore
You popped in with a predisposition, slammed people and generally struted the MOD stick- NOW you ask for something?

Let the masons deal with you. It appears you have postured an obvious bias.

"envy" riiiight

I believe you aren't understanding me here.

You are propagating falsehoods about an organization. I'm sure the Masons present are laughing at you, post by post, because YOU are the one with an unfortunate bias.

All i'm calling for are our board masons to do are stay out of these ridiculous threads, although i'm afraid the mason-hating ilk will spill over onto the threads that are supposed to be in place to enlighten those searching for the truth about Freemasonry.

[edit on 4-10-2004 by goregrinder]

Just consider the guy's screen name: "Gadfly".
Webster's defines it as:

Main Entry: gad�fly
Pronunciation: 'gad-"flI
Function: noun
Etymology: [1]gad
Date: 1626
1 : any of various flies (as a horsefly, botfly, or warble fly) that bite or annoy livestock
2 : a person who stimulates or annoys especially by persistent criticism

By his choosing this name, he unequivocally shows that all this is just a game to him anyway, getting his rocks off by seeing how long he can annoy people.

Fiat Lvx.

Originally posted by goregrinder
I believe you aren't understanding me here.

I'll refrain... It's just too easy.

You are propagating falsehoods about an organization. I'm sure the Masons present are laughing at you, post by post, because YOU are the one with an unfortunate bias.

Propagating and more, let nothing be said of PG's imagination, it does run wild... However there is a difference between fictional creativity and agenda driven malicious intent. We do get a laugh every once in a while, but most of the "jokes" are old, told ad nauseam... a sideshow at best.

All i'm calling for are our board masons to do are stay out of these ridiculous threads, although i'm afraid the mason-hating ilk will spill over onto the threads that are supposed to be in place to enlighten those searching for the truth about Freemasonry.

The "bored" Masons are abstaining (the only true form of "safe post" ), but the "cup overfloweth", hate follows no form, and is a function unto itself. The burden of proof is a forlorn tenet in this arena, the detractors of Freemasonry are not bound to any respectable guideline, and they are virulent in their profane efforts. Those among us who choose to respond, do so not for the detractor�s sake, but for those who have yet to be informed as to the nature of Freemasonry. It is to those individuals I encourage to weigh both sides of the argument� I am confident of the outcome.

Members: If abusive comments continue (which are most definately not allowed) than warning may be issued. Please keep discussion on topic

From 46 posts (including some MODs) I post 3 times and one MOD goes off?

The current MOD is correct- the future of Freemasonry is the topic.

I don't think masonry has much future. Too much of the things that have ruined other closed societies have crept into masonry without the saving graces of some others.

An example is the fine organization named Woodmen of the World. At one time they were a powerful and growing fast.

By the Society's 75th anniversary in 1966, Life Insurance in force had grown to $1.2 billion.

Mergers with four other fraternal benefit societies played an important part of Woodmen's growth during the 1960s. The Society's first merger was in 1962 with the United Order of the Golden Cross in Knoxville, Tenn. Other mergers were with the Mutual Benefit Department of the Order of Railroad Telegraphers of St. Louis, Mo., in 1964; the Supreme Forest
Woodmen Circle, founded in Omaha in 1892 as a ladies' auxiliary of Woodmen, in 1965; and the New England Order of Protection of Boston, Mass., in 1968.

Fraternal organization that provides a tangible benefit to its members.

Only when masonry sheds its 'mystery' and gets with the real world will it grow and become a viable entity.

Alright, that's enough.

This will be the fourth request by four different mods to stop with the snippiness in this thread.
It will also be the final request.

Further deterioration will result in warnings and the closure of this thread.

Kthx.

Originally posted by PublicGadfly
From 46 posts (including some MODs) I post 3 times and one MOD goes off?

The current MOD is correct- the future of Freemasonry is the topic.

I don't think masonry has much future. Too much of the things that have ruined other closed societies have crept into masonry without the saving graces of some others.

An example is the fine organization named Woodmen of the World. At one time they were a powerful and growing fast.

By the Society's 75th anniversary in 1966, Life Insurance in force had grown to $1.2 billion.

Mergers with four other fraternal benefit societies played an important part of Woodmen's growth during the 1960s. The Society's first merger was in 1962 with the United Order of the Golden Cross in Knoxville, Tenn. Other mergers were with the Mutual Benefit Department of the Order of Railroad Telegraphers of St. Louis, Mo., in 1964; the Supreme Forest
Woodmen Circle, founded in Omaha in 1892 as a ladies' auxiliary of Woodmen, in 1965; and the New England Order of Protection of Boston, Mass., in 1968.

Fraternal organization that provides a tangible benefit to its members.

Only when masonry sheds its 'mystery' and gets with the real world will it grow and become a viable entity.

The furture of masonry is looking brighter. More and more young men are seeking our mysteries, in numbers we have never seen before, even during the hey days of the late 1950's and 1960's. We are seeing men of 19, 20, 21 making applications to join, and the common reason from them is that they are seeking a group with MEANING, a place where they can make a difference, where they can be a part of SOMETHING GREATER THAN THEMSELVES.

the youth of today are tiring of the dissipated, satiated life, a life with no meaning other than selfishness. they are seeking for meaning, and Masonry, as always, is there to welcome them and to give them a place to give meaning to their lives.

While it is true that our overall numbers have been decreasing, that is simply numbers equaling out... in the period 1950-1970, masonry saw a surge of new members as men came home from WWII, Korea and Vietnam, and sought out the fellowship that they had in service. Now those men are dying out, as age catches up with them, and our membership is normalizing.

Population changes, from rural to city have also affected our lodges, as have property costs and densities have changed the lodges actual locations. Some of the more rural have closed, even as lodges in the cities have seen their memberships swell. My lodge has over 400 members, but sixty years ago, it would have been in the 150-200s, but costs have skyrocketed along with everything else, and consolidations have become necessary.

No, based on the vast growth in sites containing the truth about masonry, the number of applications I am seeing come in, the number of inquiries that I personally handle as a result of working the internet and spreading the truth about who we are and what we do, masonry has a bright future.

It will certainly be different from what it was in my gradfathers and great grandfathers time, but masonry will continue as a real presence, just as it has always done...

I am pleased to report that UK Masonry expanded this year for the first time in I think about 15 years.

This year we have more Masons. What a wonderful thought PG.

There are approximately six Million Masons world wide. So at a deteriation rate of 5%p.a. (Which has been the average until now)

Someone clever can work out how long we can last, but its a long time.

Originally posted by theron dunn
It will certainly be different from what it was in my gradfathers and great grandfathers time, but masonry will continue as a real presence, just as it has always done...

What do you think will happen to the overall structure of the masonry? At the moment I gather it's a series of independent lodges and grand-lodges, but of course a lot of the reason for that would be geographical.. you needed a grand lodge in each state because people couldn't travel is easily hundreds of years ago!

With technology though, the world's changing... could the masons here envisage a time when all the different lodges merge or somehow unify under a single "global" lodge of some sort?

This is good news, friends.

During my meeting with the investigating committee, we discussed this topic, and how many Lodges have moved on to the internet. One of our Master Masons (who will be the upcoming master AFAIK), put our Lodge on the net a few years ago, and interest has exploded ever since. Finally, I have something positive to say about the internet!

Finding a Ldoge has become as easy as a quick google search. It's critical for Masonry to profit from new technoogies, but It's equaly important to subjigate these technnologies to the principles and traditions of Masonry and not the other way 'round.

It's a double-edged sword, really. I think Masonry has suffered some (perhaps minor) degree of harm from ritual details posted all over the web. An inevitability, but all the same, it seems quite a shame to me. It is due at least in part to a prevailing distaste that a percentage of the public has for anything "secret." Alot of curiosity, and alot of ignorance and prejudice has simply forced Masonry to open it's doora a bit wider and divulge some juicy details. It's cheap, gossipy behaviour, but not much can be done to counter it. All about making Masonry more "palatable" for everyone else. I'm not for that. I'm not for masonry shedding its mysteries. It does not ned to be more viable at all. It has been viable for centuries, and will always have a solid member base, I think. I'm for making it easier for people to find out about how to become a Mason, and to have basic questions answered, but that's where the line shuold be drawn. Rtiuals should stay behind closed doors, as well as whatever else falls under that category. Probably won't happen, so the problem is something Masons need to reconcile themselves with, I suppose.



[edit on 4-10-2004 by LTD602]

Originally posted by muppet

With technology though, the world's changing... could the masons here envisage a time when all the different lodges merge or somehow unify under a single "global" lodge of some sort?

I would say no, as I know of no Grand Lodge who would be willing to give its sovereignty and autonomy. In the USA, Canada, and Mexico an organization exists called the Conference of North American Grand Masters, which meets annually, and is composed of the Grand Masters of each Grand Lodge in North America. They discuss policy, Masonic jurisprudence, etc., but their decisions are not binding upon the Grand Lodges.

Fiat Lvx.

Originally posted by muppet

Originally posted by theron dunn
It will certainly be different from what it was in my gradfathers and great grandfathers time, but masonry will continue as a real presence, just as it has always done...

What do you think will happen to the overall structure of the masonry? At the moment I gather it's a series of independent lodges and grand-lodges, but of course a lot of the reason for that would be geographical.. you needed a grand lodge in each state because people couldn't travel is easily hundreds of years ago!

With technology though, the world's changing... could the masons here envisage a time when all the different lodges merge or somehow unify under a single "global" lodge of some sort?

That's an interesting question... I have given it a lot of thought recently, being the Junior Warden of my lodge and a year away from the Master's chair now...

My grand lodge has just presented for vote this year a potential "virtual lodge". Not in the computer sense, but in the sense that a brother could become a member of this Virtual Lodge, maintain his membership, and visit whatever lodge is closest and convenient. This Virtual Lodge would have no actual facilities and never meet, the grand officers would serve as officers for this lodge.

I see a potential for more rural lodges, where they cannot maintain the expenses of a building on their own to actually go back in history to traveling lodges, and instead of meeting once per month, they might meet twice per annum, and the traveling lodge would do degrees on those meeting nights as well as business for the lodge.

I also see some lodge opening Daytime Lodges, for the older members who do not drive at night (or at all) anymore. I know of several of them, and they use the same facilities as the regular lodge, which I understand used to be the practice in the past as well.

Ft. Worth has a GIGANTIC masonic building, where I heard, 17 lodges meet, as well as York and Scottish Rites, Shrine and Star assemblies. In California right now, our grand lodge is opening Spanish Only lodges, Armenian Only lodges, as well as supporting a ressurgence in Traditional Observance Lodges for brothers who are seeking more esoteric, more thought provoking and more intellectually stimulating meetings... not that other lodges don't have these elements, but some seek deeper than others, and this is just one more avenue.

I think the face of masonry will definately change, to meet the differering needs of the members. Due to the nature of the workk that goes on in lodges, though, I do not see a true "virtual" lodge ever occurring, mostly because a significant element of masonry is the fraternal association, and while that is possible on the internet, it is just not the same thing.

I think the keyword you where looking for isn't envy but ignorance.

Originally posted by goregrinder
The them refers to the detractors of masonry. If someone can show me one thing that Freemasons have done wrong, factually, i would be willing to reverse my opinion.

Envy is the keyword here.

In the UK in particular for me I would like to see UGLE stripped down a little to much of a lumbering Dinosaur for my liking. In order to move with the times it needs to be nimbler and more ready to move. I believe the Marquis of Northampton is going to be a big driving force both now and in the future. But I think for Masonry to be more readily acceptable for todays society I think we need to look at retiring links to British Monarchy. And definatley more openly advertised for membership in the media.

Gentlemen of the Masonic order, I have a request for you. Can we all be a bit more specific when refering to

UGLE

please. i just had to explain
to someone that it was U.G.L.E. , United Grand Lodge of England not a poor spelling of UGLY. is it that difficult to place a . between the letters of the abriviation?

.. and i know from personal experience that it allows genuine criminals to go unpunished just because the have important "friends" in thier silly wee gang!!

and this is different from politics or the RCC how? please present facts.

just see if he's wearing an ear ring

I wear an earring, yet I am in no way associated with any Masonic lodge or affiliate organization.

I think it would be funny if our resident Masons didn't respond to one of these children everytime they make a comment toward their respective organization.

seems to me the Masonic order tried that for well over a hundred years to no avail. it is still SSDD.

United Grand Lodge of England not a poor spelling of UGLY.

You have not seen them.

For myself, the more involved I become in masonry, the more of a traditionalist I feel. I am not very keen on taking too liberal of an attitude toward Masonry. I am wholly against posting masonic rituals of any kind on the web, although that seems unavoidable these days. I don't think masonry needs to be made more acceptable to the public - it's frankly, not really the public's business. Instead, perhaps the public needs to be made more aware of the respect that should be accorded some secrets, some forms of privacy. And yes, secrets that harm the public should be revealed and dealt with, obviously. The case against Masonry, however, if there can be one, is far too nebulous to be taken seriously.

As far as masonic ritual goes: some of it is indeed arcane and might sound odd in our 21st century, but that is because it is RITUAL. It is a tradition, and we needn't take out the arcane, the mysterious, even the slightly odd or frightening in order to soften public opinion or make Masonry more palatable to people who want to turn it into a Bingo club.

This all comes from my personal respect for the secret and the private. I do not expect the Knights of Columbus to publish their secrets on the web, nor would I want them to. I'm of the mind that if you want to know something you'll have to learn it by being a part of it.

[edit on 6-11-2004 by LTD602]

Originally posted by lucifuge
In the UK in particular for me I would like to see UGLE stripped down a little to much of a lumbering Dinosaur for my liking. In order to move with the times it needs to be nimbler and more ready to move. I believe the Marquis of Northampton is going to be a big driving force both now and in the future. But I think for Masonry to be more readily acceptable for todays society I think we need to look at retiring links to British Monarchy. And definatley more openly advertised for membership in the media.

As a UK Mason I would agree that some changes would be a good thing. However I am not in favor of retiring the Monarchy. As with the Country I believe that absolute power corrupts absolutely, I would not like to see the politicians have absolute power in any form.

I have for some time tried to get support for a more democratic system, where members elect people to the office of decision. I see no reason why this should be a problem in the future. One member one vote.