What if we got it all wrong?

What if we are wrong? Wrong about the Illuminati, the real Illuminati, not the dozens of people/groups/orgazinations that we attribut to being Illuminati. What if the Illuminati are really here to help man-kind survive itself?

I mean the only 'bad' thing 'we' think they want to do to us, is enslave us. So many times in our history have cultures feared that from their neighbors.

What else do they want (according to us)?

- A one world government... to manage the earths resources in a viable way and (hopefully) put corruption in check. Sounds like the Venus Project.. and I know most sane people think that is a great idea.

- A one world religion? What if that 'religion' was based on science and facts and common sense? Personally I would like to see an end to current dogmas and a movement towards something everyone can share in.

- To reduce the world's population? Do we really think that the Bilderbergs and the Rothschilds' control everything? Well ok ya, but do you think at the end of the day those super rich elites will make the final call? We have seen enough quotes from these yahoos to know that at least some of them are into eugenics but why would they be into that? Could it be because they know we need to change course for the betterment of our species and are just too impatient to think of anything other than a quick solution?

Many of us say "look, it is so obvious", but in practice it isnt. Sure, it sounds good to think that if the ultra rich knock off a few billion people that the rest would be easier to control.. That if you can control what the "dumb sheeple" see you could take it all without them ever knowing it. Reality is it isn't that simple..

I am beginning to believe that we got it all backwards.

If you look at the US's original founding fathers, they were for the most part, not religious. They were learned men of science and history. They saw a need to change how things had been done for centuries in Europe but they had a problem. They were surrounded by some of the least educated, most god fearing pureatins of their time. Skip forward two hundred years and not much has changed in the US. We need to be careful of calling it black or white.. I think there are many more factors and they come in all the shades of grey imaginable. I think we contribute too many things to the "Illuminati", or to "Demons and Angels". I think too often we think of a President as being controlled by some secretive, behind the scene group, when in reality he (soon to add she) is just a dope with too much on their plate.

In conclusion: Historically the Illuminati was real but I believe too much is attributed to them now. There is no reason that greedy or misguided people can't be the cause of most problems. And ... what is really wrong with what 'we' think the Illuminati want to achieve? Much of it is what most of us are after anyway.

reply to post by Cassey222


One thing that any group of people who want to control others must remember is that there is always another group in the wings ready to over throw them and take control of the helm for themselves. And so on, and so on...

We're only human after all.

reply to post by Cassey222

You've got a lot in your OP, I'd like to ask a question about a small part of it.

If you look at the US's original founding fathers, they were for the most part, not religious. They were learned men of science and history.

By "most part," I assume you mean at least a majority.

I've done a little looking and have been unable to find evidence supporting either of your statements. Why do you think they are true?

As much as I hate to admit it, there are some points you made to hold true. I am very small goverment slash libertarian. I love the freedoms that this country was founded on and would rather fight for them then live in slavery.

That being said, there are points that can not be denied. This planet has only so many resources. It can only support so many people. What you have wrote here tonight is a personal conflict I have had for a very long time. I know we as a species are probably in need of a good set of controls. Lets face it, One only needs to read a history book to see what we are capable of.

Now here is the real problem. Who makes those decisions. What gives a group the right to decide who lives and who dies? Who says one persons life is more valuble than anothers. This is where your " Illuminati " theory dies. I wish I had a better answer because I feel this is the ultimate question. We must come together as a whole on our own. I dont think any group could ever force the worlds people together.

Every time this question comes up, all the same answers come up.

Simply:

--We are not willing to be force-marched into a one-world government.

--The population is not too large; the distribution system is unfairly controlled.

--"They" are not our masters, and we will not bow down. A totalitarian world government is still a totalitarian world government.

--When and if a one-world government happens organically, with the assent the world's people--fine. That's acceptable.

And so on. While you're at it, do a little more research on the founding fathers and what they were about--make that a LOT more research....

ETA: By the way: We do NOT have it all wrong.

Originally posted by Ex_CT2
Every time this question comes up, all the same answers come up.

Simply:

--We are not willing to be force-marched into a one-world government.

--The population is not too large; the distribution system is unfairly controlled.

--"They" are not our masters, and we will not bow down. A totalitarian world government is still a totalitarian world government.

--When and if a one-world government happens organically, with the assent the world's people--fine. That's acceptable.

And so on. While you're at it, do a little more research on the founding fathers and what they were about--make that a LOT more research....

ETA: By the way: We do NOT have it all wrong.

edit on 5/19/2012 by Ex_CT2 because: (no reason given)

I totally agree with you. Those are all the thing that we resist and are most of the things that are basically untrue about what we believe. There is more than enough for everyone on this planet (and some) and we do not need a utilitarian dictator to tell us how to live. So you got that, great^^ My original point was just that~~ and that we may have the motives of any supposed super secret group wrong. That maybe they are looking out for our best interests and that they may be trying to find ways of doing it without doing all the ugly things that we fear they are doing.

As for the founding fathers comment; granted they were all religious for if they did not appear to be so they would have been burned at the stake. Much like how we wouldn't vote for a President today that claimed to be an atheist... regardless if he/she truly was an atheist or not. When surrounded by a particular fundamental group one has to appear to fit in or be cast aside. The founding fathers were all christians.. one of the 3000 plus denominations of christianity.. well one wasn't; Thomas Paine was a deist... oh and Jefferson was as long as the teachings of "The Jefferson's bible" counts. The vast majority were Protestants which was a fringe group of extremists in their time. You know I really miss the days when 'Christians' weren't lumped together... It use to be "he is a Protestant.. he is a Methodist.. he is a Mormon... can't vote for him because he isn't a Baptist..." Then someone got scared of all the non-Christians and said.. hey, we better team up or we're gonna get owned. If you want to see how this works all you need to do is go into a KFC in the south and show the people there the bit when Romney says he is a Mormon and you will see how it used to be~

Please read whatever it is before you comment on it.. In this case it looks like my OP was half read.. assumptions were made based on things seen in the past and conclusions were prematurely jumped to~ Could be wrong but that is how it looks.

Cassey222

reply to post by David134


While I fear you are correct about our current situation about the world being unsustainable in it's current form I do believe that there is more than enough resources and space for everyone. Properly managed our finite resources are more than enough for the 7 billion here now and probably a few billion more. Key words: "Properly managed".

Originally posted by charles1952
reply to post by Cassey222

 

You've got a lot in your OP, I'd like to ask a question about a small part of it.

If you look at the US's original founding fathers, they were for the most part, not religious. They were learned men of science and history.

By "most part," I assume you mean at least a majority.

I've done a little looking and have been unable to find evidence supporting either of your statements. Why do you think they are true?

Yes, I did mean for the most part not religious. However that isn't in very good context. Relative to their time they were for the most part seen as fringe groups by the established orders within Europe. In opposition to much of the Catholic Church of Rome and the Church of England. Singling out Thomas Paine as a deist and then further associating Jefferson, Franklin and Washington as having made statements that were "in line" with a deist view is just a start. Pointing to Jefferson and his "Jefferson Bible" which was a complete rework of the original bible to remove anything supernatural; anything Gnostic; basically anything non-Jesus. This would have meant death under normal circumstances, but here we had a group that was pushing very hard against everything in Europe at the time. Sometimes in almost spite of itself.

A taste of Benjamin Franklin.. in his own words about religion:
"With regard to future bliss, I cannot help imagining that multitudes of the zealously orthodox of different sects, who at the last day may flock together in hopes of seeing each other damned, will be disappointed, and obliged to rest content With their own salvation" (Works, Vol. x., p. 366)." source

and Franklin was considered a moderate among his peers...

So 'today' we could very loosely bundle all the founding fathers up as "Christians" but I venture to say if these men lived today and were operating in the same capacities future historians would call them atheists. Maybe even militant atheists.

source
source
source
source
source

sources that counter this claim (arguing that they were Christians in the modern sense)

source
source this is a pro/con thing.. a lot of quotes