We would already be overun with alien tech if they were here.

Originally posted by Ahmose
and you think we just figured out on our own how to make integrated circuits and microprocessors? ,
to mention only a couple ... lol

Yes, actually, you did figure those "on your own". Integrated circuits started with the invention f the transistor, in 1947. Fro those basic devices, all the rest was only a matter of time.

Learning to make the device smaller and integrating in the required resistors and capacitors, and of course making them smaller. Starting of what was as a "normal" printed circuit, and leaning to make it very small, which in not difficult at all. At the end of this you have Integrated circuits.

The microprcessor, is only an extention of the basic Integrated circuit. And, actually started off as an attet to "integrate" existing "descrete", and existing, "controllers", so they would be easier t work with.

Also, at the time of the microprcessor's invention, the Space Progam was in full swing. The problem with the early space program was that much of the "flying" equipment was still "tubes", the weight, and space requirements were problematic at best.

Enter the integrated circuit. The space and weight issues were solved, for the most part. The radio equipment was smaller, and the on-bard computers were smaller as well, even without the microprocessor. Add another 40 years and you get what you have today. Though, as one involved with that development (from the 70's on), I remain rather dissapointed at how slow the actual progress has been.

I was a hardware engineer back in those days, and saw many wonderous and interesting ICs, and am left with somewhat of "puzzle"; why do we not have true 64 bit machines now, and why the hell do we not have 128 bit? Instead, I have an Intel i7 quad. Its a nice processor, but, it would prolly be faster, better, cnsume less power, and, run cooler if it has half the circuitry and a wider dataaddress path (buss). But what the hey, st least the technology is starting to catch up with my imagination when it comes to software (since 1982 or so I've been a software engineer.

So, yes, you figured it out on your own!

%&#(#*%$@#!!!!

I didn't mean to post this last night I wasn't even part of the way finished. I ate and got tired. Theres many angles to my perspective on this I didn't even get to, didn't even proof read it, etc. I had saved it to a .rtf file and went to bed but somehow this incomplete draft got posted.

Originally posted by samlf3rd
Why? Because you and your friends need a taser? Coincidence that for the past 5,000 years we have lived in a mediocre state, then Roswell happened, then came the microwave, the atomic bomb, guidance systems, satellites, and so forth. Coincidence? Probably not. Luck guess that these things work like this, and they are all efficient too?

Actually Roswell happened after the microwave, radar, rockets, radio controlled devices, computers, sophisticated encryption, McDonald's and the A bomb.

Sputnik the first satellite did little more than emit a 'ping' frequency that got the cold war all heated up, yet it only lasted for a whopping 22 days before the battery died. AHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!

The electronic principals of resistence, reactance, capacitance, conductance, amperes, wattage, inductance, electromagnetic fields, and so on were all well established science before the end of the 1800's. Making the leap from vacuum tubes to semiconductors was more of a no brainer than magic as the step could probably be achieved with little more than measuring the resistence of materials of various with a ($1) ohmmeter and specific intent.

The Law of Accelerating Returns is the answer to the great mystery of todays human technologies.

No mystery here really. Its a simple matter of todays tools building better tools that enable building even better tools more quickly, ad infinitum, as another already pointed out. An exponential graph can be plotted quite well going back into the stone age up to today. Have a look at Accellerating Change if you think I'm making this stuff up. I'm better read on Kurzweil than probably most, yet I've never gotten a hint of debunking aliens as his motives. Quite the opposite really, as if you listen to him he insists than humans will be able to use the next-gen tech's I've started to mention as a means to literally change the fabric of the entire universe. If he's right I think we might be able to detect this happening by others by now.

The cattle carving skull-duggery of our grey friends looks rather shabby compared to our rapid technological advancements.

reply to post by IgnoranceIsntBlisss

First of all...Teleporting anything occurs at the speed of light...186,200 miles a second. This is FAR TOO SLOW as a method of Interstellar Travel as well as if you could teleport a person....and for those of you who think Teleportation is Sci-Fi....it has been accomplished in the lab many...many times with individual particles.

This is known as QUANTUM ENTANGLEMENT and Einstein called this reality....SPOOKY! LOL! Anyways...if you could Teleport a person...you would basically be making another copy by one form of Teleportation....that being...beaming the Data which details the Structure of every Atom in the persons body...then using raw material at the receiving end to reconstruct the person...as this would now be a copy but the copy would not have the Memories nor any information as the mind would be a Blank Slate.

The other form of Teleportation...like on Star Trek....uses a Made up device called the Heisenberg Compensators that adjust for the UNCERTAINTY PRINCIPLE....a Theory of which he was the writer of...as a way to explain away the issues of Breaking Down every particle and beaming them a distance by changing them from Matter to all Energy....then have them change back to Matter as a person who is the same as the one beamed a distance thus they retain their knowledge. Split Infinity

reply to post by SplitInfinity


So what's your point, Split?

NANOTECHNOLOGY and why we would already be conquered by now:

None of us would even exist if they intended to conquear us, as we're already getting such an impression just by the comments in this very thread. With nanotech they could quite easily either wipe us out, or make us into the ultimate mind control slaves to the point they'd already be down here walking around chillin' by the beach tiki bar and us not be able to attack them if we wanted. The scene from Robocop comes to mind where Robocop finally discovers that "DIRECTIVE 4" prevents him from attacking OMNICORP executives with Dick Jones as the culprit.



In fact to make this point even more over the top such beings probably would have already been adept enough to use biotech to engineer a plague to wipe us all out in a month or so, well before having truly mastering nanotech. The example is that the US Military alone already has perhaps dozens of strains of viruses capable of hitting this mark pretty close.

The reality with the sorts of mind control nanotech I'm eluding to is that the true masters of the planet are already working towards this mind control facet, and the day they have it the whole world could be mind controlled via food and drinking water with little chance to detect or stop it before its too late. This is a huge problem proponents of these technologies are faced with that their best answer to is to saturate the entire world and our bodies with 'defensive' nanobots, as even Kurzweil admits a dictator(ship) could very well destroy/enslave the world with the very nanotechnology he lusts for with this 'defense' as the best shot at surivial (not much of one if you ask me).

A couple years ago I did a major edit of the Wachowski Bros' film The Invasion which originally depicted the planet being overun with an alien 'smart virus' that mind controlled the entire planet almost overnight. My version is "Neuro-Invasive Nanobot Takeover" (on Vimeo), where I heavily altered it to show a totalitarian takeover of the same vein from earth based nanobots.

Meanwhile advanced aliens with an agenda are already here yet the nanobots aren't controlling me nor have they erased humans from the earth, or am I part of the conspiracy being their propaganda mouthpiece diverting people from the 'truth' the Wachowski Bros.' tried to warn us about?

Moving on:


A civilization a 1000 years after mastering nanotech shouldn't even have a problem developing something akin to "grey goo" that could kill specifically humans, and rapidly transform us into compost and have our planet repopulated by them watching our tv sets and eating our candies and canned goods in maybe only mere months. The 'food' at McDonald's wouldn't even have spoiled by then... wait a minute... now that might be some alien tech!!!

So whether they want to destroy, erase, control or enslave us all individually it would have already happened decades ago.

Another angle is if they want to merely observe us they'd only have to shower the earth with forms of "smart dust". By now everyday people could detect smart dust for perhpas only a $1000 investment. This makes big problems for the theory that the US.gov is working in cahoots with them and utilizing their tech's, as the .gov would have been using this for decades now, whereas today most people havent even heard of it yet despite the Internet and the theory of such tech being a good decade or so old.

If you want to physically prove aliens on earth get some high powered magnification equipment and start trying to detect their smart dust.

I just thought of this, but seriously, is there any other way for an average person to even dream of physically proving aliens? This is a real toughie as a $500 PC running free software can already make UFO video so realistic looking they spawn worldwide awe and debate, as some videos have already proven years ago now. I even saw a video of the Flying Spaghetti Monster wrapped around a building a few years ago filmed with a phone from a moving vehicle that was pretty damn impressive for some eastern Europeaners.

Somebody mentioned cell phones. Considering a real alien UFO event would be observable by tons of people they would be captued by masses everytime, such as with that amazing spiral event. The days of a single person filming HUGE events are over, while millions of people can make sophisticated video this week without even getting up from their computer desk (ok they might need a mom like Eric Cartmans who will bring food and clean the bucket for them).



Sorry if I've destroyed your dreams of being an alien drone just now because even if you do prove smart dust already exists, which I'd like to the first to know if it does, even that wouldn't prove aliens exist.

Originally posted by jamdan
reply to post by SplitInfinity

 

So what's your point, Split?

My point is that any Alien Race that has the ability to travel Interstellar Distances would be using a form of Tech. that would be so above our understanding that even though there is U.S. Documentation and Records that were found using the Freedom of Information Act hidden in the Dept. of Agriculture Files that are communications between U.S. Civilian and Military Officials that to a great extent prove the existance of E.T. as well as recovered tech that was sent to Wright Field which is now Wright Patterson AFB the U.S. Militaries Center for reverse engineering Alien tech......the extreme level of Ultra High Technology is so far in advancement to our understanding of Physics that in some cases...it may take CENTURIES before we are capable of either understanding it or duplicating it.

This is why the World is not over run with Alien Tech. Split Infinity

"Records that were found using the Freedom of Information Act hidden in the Dept. of Agriculture Files"

Ok Splitsy, that's going to need a bit of backing up. Can you point me to these files? They will be available right?

So not only do they defile our cattle by stealing their kidneys, they patronise us with this "Well you wouldn't really understand." How condescending. Time for some Earl Grey.

Originally posted by IMSAM
Actually i dont think we would be overrun as you mean it and heres why

-Imagine cars that dont need oil /the oil cartel is not going to let that happen

-imagine no maladies /not gonna happen,drug companies need to sell their stuff

its like i give you the sickness but oh look here i just happen to got the cure too

-imagine no wars /all those gun making companies,someones gotta buy them

and a million other reasons

I fail to see any relevence to any of that. If beings can teleport here physically, well whats the point. If they have an agenda then surely it would have something to do with them wanting the planet. If our government are subject to them the aliens wouldn't let us destory the planet, our what we percieve as what destroys the planet isn't doing so.

Maybe they just wanna make some US Federal Reserve Notes? Perhaps they're the ones that own Norton and McAfee and they're making all these damn PC viruses we gotta pay to remove.

Originally posted by Aliensun
Going on your title alone, you've got to be kidding.
the ETs can come bearing gifts, but the hands that receive such will be part of the military-industrial complex that Eisenhower warned us about.

Ain't nobody goin' to give us nuthin'.

Ok they come bearing gifts, yet they aren't free. Then why are they here???

If they wanted the planet we wouldn't be having this discussion, so what does that leave us to even discuss in their supposed motives?

Originally posted by samlf3rd
Why? Because you and your friends need a taser? Coincidence that for the past 5,000 years we have lived in a mediocre state, then Roswell happened, then came the microwave, the atomic bomb, guidance systems, satellites, and so forth. Coincidence? Probably not. Luck guess that these things work like this, and they are all efficient too?

Happening in 1947 Roswell has no effect on the atomic bomb.

Or the idea of a satellite.

Or the fundamentals of rocketry necessary to put satellites in orbit.

These things were already underway by 1947.

Theres no evidence for any tech that suddenly appeared without any previous human knowledge tree to base it on. You dont give us murderous monkeys enough credit.

So...

A thread about advanced technology challenging the notion of alien visitors in the biggest forum on the site is largely being ignored. Surprising considering everything about aliens is advanced tech, and here I've started a discussion about advanced tech in the context of what realities and implications we're faced with in the realm of advanced tech that are on our immediate horizon not counting aliens.

There's so much left to cover yet.

Agent Mulder said it best with "I Want To Believe". Without getting too far into psychology or cognitive biases it would seem apparent that this thread would be ignored for such reason.

ANTS DON'T REALIZE WE ARE HERE

Originally posted by samlf3rd
Why? Because you and your friends need a taser? Coincidence that for the past 5,000 years we have lived in a mediocre state, then Roswell happened, then came the microwave, the atomic bomb, guidance systems, satellites, and so forth. Coincidence? Probably not. Luck guess that these things work like this, and they are all efficient too?

I agree. If you look at the history of technology we have gained more in the last 50 years than in the previous 50,000 years.

Please forgive the formatting, I gathered from all around the web (fairly new in the grand scheme of things) and I know I left out a LOT.

Around 100 years ago, the big technology of the day included houses being equipped with electricity, the Wright Brothers making the first flight, Henry Ford making the first automobile and other things including:
•Bakelite plastic
•Escalators
•Teabags
•Cellophane
•Instant coffee
•Disposable razor blades

50 years ago, Apollo 11, the first barcodes, kevlar and atms

40 years ago, the first microprocessor, taking up an entire room, fiber optics, the first microwave and the cassette player

30 years ago: •Personal computers
•Graphical user interface
•CDs
•Walkmans
•VCRs
•Camcorders
•Video game consoles
•Cable television
•Answering machines
•Cell phones
•Portable phones
•Fax machines

20 years ago
Dolly the sheep cloned
Human Genome project started
Space Station started
Hubble Space Telescope
genetically engineered crops
GPS

10 years ago
Human Genome project completed
Mars Rover
Voyager left this solar system
Digital cameras
LCD displays
DVRs
DVDs
Hybrids
text messaging
VoIP
Bluetooth
RFID

2 years ago
artificial arteries
3D TV
artificial pancreas
TED
northern pole of the moon contains millions of tons of ice
creation of element 117
LOFAR radio astronomy
Sony retires the walman
Antimatter trapped for the first time for a fraction of a second
antiaging developed in mice

Just last year
WATSON
(and now I get lazy because there are so many links and they haven't made a cool site with easy to grab facts that I saw quickly and easily)

The Middle Ages, when pretty much NOTHING happened, lasted 1000 years, we have come this far in just 100, MAJOR stuff in the past 30, so I think we're making some pretty darn awesome jumps!!! Larger jumps in a shorter time than has ever been made in recorded history. Amazing jumps, almost impossible.... Who's to say there hasn't been some major "assistance" along the way? Not saying we did, we could have done this on our own, making large leaps with larger populations, but it never hurts to keep an open mind

reply to post by PurpleChiten

The Middle Ages, when pretty much NOTHING happened, lasted 1000 years, we have come this far in just 100, MAJOR stuff in the past 30, so I think we're making some pretty darn awesome jumps!!! Larger jumps in a shorter time than has ever been made in recorded history. Amazing jumps, almost impossible.... Who's to say there hasn't been some major "assistance" along the way? Not saying we did, we could have done this on our own, making large leaps with larger populations, but it never hurts to keep an open mind

Nice list. I think Earth has received "major assistance", just not from outside. You'll notice in your list the truly serious stuff starts 40 years ago. In the early 1970's Intel released their 4004 and 4040. These were the first truly integrated microprocessors (both 4 bit). Though, they didn't "fill a room". By this time there were already "mini" computers that were all "solidstate" and built from descrete transistors. It was prolly these "mini" computers that lead to the integration, and, it really was just a matter of time. By 1972 or so, Intel had the next generation ready in the form of the 8008 and the famous 8080 (the instruction set of all modern micro-computers is based on the original 8080 instructions)..

The 8080 lead to quite a few achines used mostly by "hobbists" at the time. Such systems as the ImSAI were available in kit form, and were "semi" popular. By the end of the 70's these early microprocessord were almost ubiquitous. I was one of the engineers that helped make it possible to mass manufacture these devices.

By 1980 the Intel 8086 was developed, a third generation microprocessor and it was 16 bit (as opposed to the 8080's 8 bits). These machines made the PC possible. The addition of 8 bits made it possible for the processor to perform rather complex operations in a single instruction, thus making the machine more efficient. Most of the rest is modern history. We now have 64 bit machines like my Intel i7 quad core (an i7 quad core has 8 processors in it and performs looad balancing to help make it more efficient).

If you look at yur list you should notice that irtually everything depends upon this single "invention". Making the micro-processr perhaps the single ost important development in Human history. This single device has accelerated Human knowledge and learning in a way that ET could no. It has allowed "simple" T. Humans to do more, The ability to design and conceive of new systems in a "timely"manner is key to advancement, and the microprocessor has made it possible.

Everything that a Human does today depends on microprocessors. As an example; the Cell Phone; Most think of this device as a "phone", yet, it is not a simple telephone, and, is in fact, a small, hand held, special purpose computer system. Your ability to surf the Internet on your phone should be more than enough evidence for that, they are no longer "phones".

So anyway, as you can see, this one simple(?) technological developent has made all of "today" possible. And, all without ET's help.

reply to post by AnthraAndromda


Thanks for the corrections! I pulled it together pretty fast and just hit highlights, so there are probably lots of things I left out too.
I do remember in high school we went to the nearest University and saw one of the original really large computers that used punch cards. We were up to the Apple II GS by then, so we thought we were really "cutting edge"
In just 20 years we went from big, bulky PCs with no hard drive and everything programmed in manually via apple basic or microsoft basic and saved on a 5 1/4 floppy drive to IPads and laptops and something as simple as a music player that's 100 times more advanced. Pretty amazing how far we've come!

reply to post by PurpleChiten

I do remember in high school we went to the nearest University and saw one of the original really large computers that used punch cards. We were up to the Apple II GS by then, so we thought we were really "cutting edge"

When I read this I alost laughed yself out of my chair Around 1972, I was and aspriring young engineering student (Electrical Engineering / Computer Science), and was learig the "Fortran" prograing language. We had a "state-of-the-art" computing center at my University.; an IBM 360 and a room full of "Keypunch" machines (the "dumb" terminal was very new at the time). So, we would go the College bookstore and buy our boxes of punch cards (about 500 at a time). Then we went to the keypunch and copied our "lines of code" from our ntes to the cards, package them up and subit the to the Coputer operator. He would run ur stuff, and return what ever result was t be had, usuall a list of errors Then we would correct and repete...loads of fun (well for the likes of me anyway, I've always enjoyed the "coding" process).

It would seem that we have come quite a long way since then. My current computer is many times more powerful than that old IBM machine, like all modern machines. Today our computers have built-in (sort of) graphics engines, full color, lots of pixels. Our ability to communicate with other computers is "fast", and getting faster, just like the comuters themselves. But, in reality, the technology to provide this increased speed and power isn't all that new. What has happened is we have learned new and novel ways to apply existing technology and build faster, more powerful systems.

Your Apple2 was "cutting edge" in its time. And the 5.25 inch floppies were an improvment on the larger 8 inch flopies we had in the 70's. Also, near the end of the 70's what we now know as "hard drives" cae ont the market. These were "winchester" technology disk drives, and, you could pick up a "massive" 1 meg drive for only a few thousand. Course today I have a terabyte drive that is not only larger, and faster, but only cost about $100.

As one who was n the "front lines" during much of this development, I continue to be amazed (at times) at the progress that has been made. Yet still, todays technology would have been easily recognized, and used by Engineers 40 years ago, even with our antique educations.

I want to push the envelope a bit here.

Today we hear about "ET Tech" more than just a bit. Many people think ET is 1000's of years ahead of Earth. After all ET can cross those "vast" interstellar distances, and many think of those distances an nearly insurmountable.

Yet, those many, are wholly ignorant of the work that has been done this century. On the European Space Angency website there are available papers by some of todays top scientists.

Among these papers are such things as Heim-space, gravito-magnetic fields, and many others. I want to focus for a moment on Heim-space and gravito-magnetic fields.

These two are closely inter-related. Heim-space accurately predicted interactions that have made the old ideas of space propulsion rather obsolete. When I first learned abou these things they were just "novel" ideas. Today we have working theories on how to build and use Gravito-magnetic fields for propulsion. And, we have ways of producing these fields in a "controlled" manner. One of the latest papers I've read is on using a gravito-electromagnetic field for propulsion. You can read it here..

This kind of machine would not suffer the limitations of traditional "exaust powered" spacecraft. These old systems are limited to the "speed" of their exaust. Fields product no exaust, and can provide significant thrust, the advantage is that the speed of light is no longer unreachable. Further, with the kind of gravito-magnetic systems that are currently being studied, the issues of time dilation may no longer be an issue either. The current way of generating the field uses a Niobium disk, cooled to superconducting tempratures, and "spun" up to around 4000 rpm. An effect found is an increase in what is termed "frame-dragging". This is where Ones "local" inertial frame is dragged for a short time, thus effectively altering the "local clock". What is happening is an effect opposite to time dilation. The technology is yet very young, but, I can see it making it possible for a spacecraft to travel the 4 or 8 light years to a near-by star in a fairly reasonable time. For both the travelers , and, those who remained behind on Earth. Thus a trip to the nearest star may only take 8 years ... for everyone (travelers, and, those not traveling).

And another "effect" that has been observed, "artificial gravity", this would be a significant boon to space exploration and work (no more zero G).

Again, this is Terrestrial science and technology, outside help not required.